Just finished reading (via audio book) Pillars of the Earth. Does anyone have any information about flying buttresses? I want to know who invented them, when and where. Also, what about Thomas A Becket vs. King Henry? Was that Henry VIII? What was the conflict about? Also, what was the church hierarchy at that time? I don’t remember what period of history this story would have happened in, but maybe it was the 12th or 13th century. +++++++++++ 09-24-04, 12:50 PM juanruiz On buttresses:
Henry VIII's Thomas was Sir Thomas More, executed when he refused to endorse Henry's plan to divorce Catherine of Aragón and marry Anne Boleyne.
Thomas à Becket was Archbishop of Canterbury during the reign of Henry II. The monarch wanted more control of the Church and Becket disagreed. According to legend, the king muttered something about killing Becket, several nobles overheard this and did just that (1170).
09-24-04, 12:51 PM MommyTimesTwo Thomas a Becket was martyred for defending his religion. Like the book says, he was beheaded on order of the king. I am not 100% sure, but I beleive Thomas was King Henry's mentor before King Henry decided to ransack all the churches for their wealth under the guise of removing Protestantism from England.
Henry VIII was Henry IX's father. He was also the father of Queen Mary (aka Bloody Mary) and Elizabeth I. I cannot off the top of my head remember which Henry killed Thomas, I beleive it was VIII. (You may remember the song about Henry VIII killing his 5 wives? Ann Boleyn was his wife and the mother of Elizabeth I.)
The conflict was about Protestantism. Henry VIII split with Rome and Catholocism to get a divorce from his wife, the Spanish Queen Catherine, so he could marry Anne Boleyn.
Elizabeth I was born in 1533, and this all happened when she was a small child, for a historical era.
The conflict with Thomas revolved around Thomas defending Catholocism while Henry VIII wanted Protestantism, aka the Church of England. Thomas refused to bow to Henry's whim, and was killed. The people made him a martyr.
The church hierarchy for Catholocism was what it is now--the Pope rules them all. The Protestant Church of England was headed by Henry.
If you are interested in that time period, there are a lot of good books out there about Mary, Henry, and Elizabeth. One I just finished reading is The Queen's Fool, which focuses on the conflict between Bloody Mary and Elizabeth I. Another good one by the same author is The Other Boleyn Girl, which is about the split between England and Rome, told from the point of view of Anne Boleyn's younger sister, who also was a "consort" of Henry VIII.
09-24-04, 12:57 PM juanruiz "Henry VIII was Henry IX's father"
Uh, M X 2, there has never been a Henry IX.
09-24-04, 01:25 PM MommyTimesTwo Sigh...
You are right (as usual). I messed up the names. I was thinking Edward and writing Henry Roll Eyes
Please replace "Henry IX" with "Edward", son of Henry and Jane Seymour.
(see what happens when I think I know something Razz)
09-24-04, 01:27 PM Karrow Yes, JR is correct as usual. There has never been a King Henry IX, and the first Plantagenet King, Henry II (1154-1189), was the monarch who famously said "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?". Some of his Knights on hearing this killed Thomas Becket.
King Henry VIII was the father of King Edward VI, Queen Mary I and Queen Elizabeth I.
09-24-04, 01:45 PM juanruiz Thanks for the exact quote, Karrow. It's been a while since I've studied English history.
09-24-04, 01:47 PM MommyTimesTwo I read a lot about Elizabeth I. I tend to ignore the rest of the family. Big Grin
09-24-04, 05:41 PM VivienneHa MommyTimesTwo,just a few points,sorry to be so fussy,but I can't help it where English history is concerned ! As juanruiz points out Thomas a Becket was around in the 12th century,during the reign of Henry II,about 400 years before Henry VIII. Becket was not beheaded but butchered to death in Canterbury Cathedral. King Henry (VIII) didn't ransack all the churches for their wealth under the guise of removing Protestantism from England,but dissolved the monastaries under the guise of removing Catholicism from England (although quite a bit of ransacking did go on). There was no Edward IX either,the son of Henry VIII and Jane Seymour was Edward VI.(Sorry,i've just realised Karrow has mentioned that already!) Henry VIII had six wives and had only two of them killed.
09-24-04, 05:50 PM MommyTimesTwo See why I don't answer history questions?? lol!! (See also why history is the only class I ever got a D in? Razz)
Thank you guys for correcting me, I am glad you all knew a lot better than I did.
However, I stand by those two books as being good! Please don't correct me Razz
09-24-04, 05:51 PM juanruiz Just a brief literary aside: It was to Becket's shrine that all the characters in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales were headed
"The hooly blisful martir for to seke That hem hath holpen, whan that they were seeke."
09-24-04, 06:15 PM juanruiz "King Henry VIII was the father of King Edward VI, Queen Mary I and Queen Elizabeth I."
And, of course, of Henry, Duke of Richmond.
09-24-04, 09:52 PM FredPuli The alleged words of King Henry, overheard and misunderstood by the knights so causing them to kill Becket were " Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"
Oh, and MommyTimesTwo: You 'tend to ignore the rest of the family' and concentrate on Elizabeth ? How uncanny ! That's exactly what Elizabeth II wishes she could do with her family now Big Grin
09-24-04, 11:20 PM coldfuse Henry IX is actually Hank Hill, a native of Texas, who sells propane while awaiting his opportunity to ascend to the throne.
09-24-04, 11:38 PM DorianGreyed "There has never been a King Henry IX, and the first Plantagenet King, Henry II (1154-1189), was the monarch who famously said "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?". Some of his Knights on hearing this killed Thomas Becket.
King Henry VIII was the father of King Edward VI, Queen Mary I and Queen Elizabeth I." - Karrow
I find it amazing that Karrow can remember those events after all these years.
09-25-04, 04:10 AM dogspit Per Brewer's British Royalty : A Phrase and Fable Dictionary - by David Williamson :
"...Henry returned to England in 1163 and almost at once began a quarrel with the Church that was to occupy the next few years of his reign. Henry had raised his Chancellor Thomas á Becket to the Arch-bishopric of Canterbury in 1162, and in order to show that he was no mere cipher of the king, Becket set out to prove his independence. An argument developed between over the issue of whether clergy who committed crimes ('criminous clerks') should be tried in ordinary courts of law or only in church courts. Attempts at negotiation failed, and in 1164 Becket was forced to leave the country, while Henry impounded the revenues of the archbishropric. Eventually, in spite of Henry's finesse, the threat of a papal interdict forced a reconciliation and Becket returned to England in 1170. The well-known story of Henry's exasperated utterance 'will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?' leading to Becket's murder in his own cathedral at the hands of four of Henry's knights on 29 December 1170, was disastrous to Henry's cause against the Church..."
09-25-04, 04:34 AM VivienneHa
quote:Originally posted by juanruiz: "King Henry VIII was the father of King Edward VI, Queen Mary I and Queen Elizabeth I."
And, of course, of Henry, Duke of Richmond.
Yes, but juan,he was a total ******* ! Big Grin
09-25-04, 03:54 PM juanruiz Yes, he was. But I understand the king gave him fits. Wink
09-27-04, 09:51 PM decal "Ye Jacobites By Name..."
Those who think William and Mary gave James II the bum's rush would say there WAS a "Henry IX" - Bonnie Prince Charlie's younger brother Henry Benedict Stuart, the "Cardinal King."
