Some good games in the first round. Spain demolishes Russia. Italy gets thumped by The Netherlands. Sweden beats Greece. Anyone else around here watching the games?

Yes.

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Originally posted by juanruiz:
Italy gets thumped by The Netherlands.

P.S. Did you spot why van Nistelroy wasn't offside for the first goal? On the face of it, the fact that an Italian defender was off the field to the side of the goal ought to have been irrelevant and Nistelroy was offside. The defender was crumpled up, lying on the ground, facing the wrong way, playing no part and some metres away. He might as well have been sitting in the stands. But the law now is that a player is in play if he leaves the field without the consent of the referee. And the FIFA guidance to referees, Paragraph 11.4 says , in terms, that a player is not to be ruled offside because an opponent is off the field of play.

It took the BBC experts overnight to find that guidance They did manage to establish what the principle was, within ten minutes of the game ending, but before that had been spending much time saying it was offside,the goal shoudn't have been given, but it didn't matter

Lot of debate on that play; no doubt a clarification will be issued. Thing is, the guy got nailed by his own goalie. I, for one, who get rather tired of watching soccer players writhe in agony on the pitch until the "culprit" gets carded, then blithely get up and walk away, got a kick (no pun intended...ok, yes there is)out of the turn of events with the Azzurri.

A ref from 40 years ago said he had a simple rule. If the man was seriously injured he wouldn't be moving at all,either because he was concussed or in shock or he sensed he was badly hurt (and followed his standard training not to move).If he was rolling around he was fit enough. He said it was amazing how quickly an ignored player would recover when play continued without him

A more recent tactic is to collapse dramatically when the tackle was fair and then roll around in the hope that the referee will stop play for the 'injury', thereby depriving your opponent of any advantage that is developing.In this tournament the referees are studiously ignoring these exhibitions.

(And no, it wasn't offside said a) the governing body b) the head of the English Referees association and c) the head of the Austrian referees.)

I believe the governing body in this case was UEFA, not FIFA. Still, it will continue to be discussed.

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Originally posted by juanruiz:
I believe the governing body in this case was UEFA, not FIFA. Still, it will continue to be discussed.

It is indeed UEFA which is immediately responsible.FIFA has the ultimate fault decision concerning the offside law.They are the idiots wise men in suits who rewrote it in such complicated terms that nobody now understands it.

We are expecting the FIFA representative to turn up any minute now because of this:

The Swiss are now playing water polo against the Turks. If this had been a league game it would either not have been started or it would have been abandoned.There is so much water on the pitch that the ball is stopping in puddles.

We expect the FIFA rep not to interfere. Too much money and trouble is at stake

The game would be replayed tomorrow. Can't see that happening.

Well, the Swiss were eliminated from the next round yesterday, losing to the Turks. The first half was indeed a mess; the Swiss goal was scored in part thanks to a puddle which stopped a crossing pass in front of the Turk net.

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wise men in suits who rewrote it in such complicated terms that nobody now understands it.

Believe or not, Fred, I used to be a linesman some years ago. And even then,what constituted offside was hotly debated. Sometimes between the ref and me during a game.

Where are Adrian Healy and Robbie Mustoe from?

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Originally posted by juanruiz:
Where are Adrian Healy and Robbie Mustoe from?

Never heard of either of them. However , some digging reveals that Robbie Mustoe was an average to ordinary midfielder for Middlesborough, a deeply unfashionable club in the North East of England.He was born in Oxford. The team has been in the Premier League in the last few years. When he was playing they were in the old second division and then in the old first division.He retired in 2001.He has never coached or managed any professional side. It appears that he has coached a college team.

Adrian Healey? I can't find any record of him as a player. He must be a journalist.Is he British?

I take it that both are commentators.

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I take it that both are commentators.

Yes. Today's Italy-Romania game is a big one in the Group of Death. A loss will kill the Azzurri. France-Netherlands the other big one.

Really can't see Italy not winning against Romania. Romania always set out for a draw, nine or ten behind the ball at all times. Surely Italy can get one chance home? The fun thing will be if Romania score early on (from a set piece,most likely, but they might have the one frontman latch on to one of many long through balls). Then we may see the famous Italian desperation, every half -chance seen as a disaster, dissent in the ranks and so on.

France-Netherlands. Could be tough. Netherlands impressed more as a working unit.

Croatia beating Germany was gratifying and no surprise. Croatia are like Greece were last time: no stars , though Modric is one in the making, but an excellent manager and a good team

Over many years of watching international competition, I have seen there are teams that believe all they have to do is show up. Brazil has been guilty of that on occasion. I think that was Germany's mindset against Croatia.

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Originally posted by juanruiz:
I think that was Germany's mindset against Croatia.

Not wise when your left back is as poor as theirs was ! They took him off at half-time before he could be in the wrong place, too far from the winger, etc etc once more

Romania snatches defeat from the jaws of victory and ends up with a tie against Italy. Mutu should be put on suicide watch.

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Originally posted by juanruiz:
Romania snatches defeat from the jaws of victory and ends up with a tie against Italy. Mutu should be put on suicide watch.

We say 'draw'. A tie is a match here (Third round tie, semi-final tie etc).

We saw the old adage in operation: a side is never more vulnerable than when it has just scored. That is proved time and time again and it happened once more. The psychology of soccer, in action. We were all sitting here yelling 'DON'T concede. CONCENTRATE !' , but they didn't hear us

Buffon certainly earned his money today.

Interesting piece of trivia from the commentators here: This is the first match(and almost certainly the last) in which neither team fielded a player who doesn't play regularly in the first team of an English Premier League club.That's how powerful, and worldwide in its scope, our top division is. If the talent is out there their scouts find it and there's the money and prestige to attract it.One retired Romanian star is the 'Eastern European scout for Inverness Caledonian Thistle' That's a club which is in the bottom half of the Scottish Premier League. They've got ambitions!

Mutu played for Chelsea but failed a drugs test in 2004 (reportedly for cocaine, though he denied it was that) and was immediately dismissed and his contract cancelled.He'd been bought for £15.8 million from Parma.He was then 25 years old.

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We say 'draw'.

Only if we are standing twenty feet apart on the main street of Tucson, Arizona in 1888, and we are carrying Colt .45s.

JR Have you been watching the Spain-Sweden game?

Sadly, Spain didn't look a side that can win the tournament . They are all right going forward because there's always a chance that Villa or Torres can get a boot on something (Torres, in particular) or conjure a bit of space (Villa) but defensively yikes! Had their centre backs been introduced to one another before the game? They might argue that they'll qualify anyway, but they'll need a lot more in the next round.

[It's great belonging to a country, England, that's so bad that it couldn't qualify at all. Dispassionate disinterest is the order of the day.The streets are not full of cars with St George's flags fluttering from jackstaffs on the windows, there are no penalty shoot-outs to lose, and no demands to sack the manager (that was done when they failed to qualify) ]

If you missed the France-Netherlands game , you missed a treat.The game and goals were good in themselves but the genius was in the Dutch manager, van Basten's, change of tactics, with clever substitutions, for the second half

Yes, saw both games. The Dutch really are the class of the tournament thus far. 2 wins in the Group of Death is an achievement. The French, well, Qu'est-ce qu'on peut dire? They smelled like bad Roquefort cheese.

The Spain-Sweden game was very good. Villa may be declared macho of the tournament just based on goals. But it is also true, their defense is suspect, and as we approach the next rounds, it may well be exploited.