England beat Paraguay 1-0 in their first match in the World Cup.
(Alright, the England team didn't play all that brilliantly, but it was good enough to win.) +++++++++++++++++ 06-10-06, 06:46 PM FredPuli Americans out there! How isolated the USA is from the rest of the world! The rest of the world is now off-work for a month. We imagine that nobody in the US has the faintest idea that the World Cup is going on. The rest of us are in pubs,restaurants, offices, parks, everywhere watching the soccer games. (It only started yesterday and I've watched five matches live already Smile) Sorry, but until you embrace soccer you Americans are all doomed to be misunderstood (and to not understanding the one thing that unites the rest of us Big Grin )
06-10-06, 06:49 PM juanruiz Actually, Fred, my son is over in Germany right now. He'll catch the Iran-Mexico game tomorrow, and I'm taping every one at home.
06-10-06, 07:38 PM Sailracer Fred, The New York Mets are in first place! "World Cup"??? Whats that???? Wink
06-11-06, 07:15 PM coldfuse Fred, you'll be delighted to know that it has commanded the front page of our local Sports section daily, fighting with position for our Hurricanes' pursuit of hockey's Stanley Cup.
Americans, look for your team to face the Czech Republic tomorrow - er, is it today - I'm all confused about the times! I think it will be "noonish" on Monday, June 12.
06-12-06, 08:11 AM aminator2002 No mention of the fact that Paraguay scored the only goal of the game... on themselves?
Better hold off on the bragging until your team kicks/heads one in for themselves!
Up today...USA's first match. Go USA! And yes, some of us are watching.
06-12-06, 08:57 AM Colin, Paris, France I have ambivalent views about this. I spent Saturday in the city of Lincoln (UK) and was ashamed of the raucous, louid-mouthed drunken England fans and their lager swilling antics, most of them swearing just for the sake of it and parading about the town half naked, intimidating the weekend shoppers. I was with my parents and felt, well, insecure. People feel obliged to smile in dulgently in case they get set upon. I've no problems with football as a game, and no problems with the World Cup either, but do other countries' supporters also behave like this? I was in the centre of Paris eight years ago when France beat Brazil 3 - 0 in the World Cup Final and it wan't like it was in Lincoln the other day. Or am I being unfair on the English? (Don't think so - I grew up there). Comments welcome!!
06-12-06, 10:54 AM juanruiz
quote: the raucous, louid-mouthed drunken England fans and their lager swilling antics, most of them swearing just for the sake of it and parading about the town half naked,
I seem to recall that Korea refused visas to a number of English fans some years ago; they had been identified by the British authorities.
06-12-06, 02:49 PM FredPuli
quote: Originally posted by Colin, Paris, France: I have ambivalent views about this. I spent Saturday in the city of Lincoln (UK) and was ashamed of the raucous, louid-mouthed drunken England fans and their lager swilling antics, most of them swearing just for the sake of it and parading about the town half naked, intimidating the weekend shoppers. I was with my parents and felt, well, insecure. People feel obliged to smile in dulgently in case they get set upon. I've no problems with football as a game, and no problems with the World Cup either, but do other countries' supporters also behave like this? I was in the centre of Paris eight years ago when France beat Brazil 3 - 0 in the World Cup Final and it wan't like it was in Lincoln the other day. Or am I being unfair on the English? (Don't think so - I grew up there). Comments welcome!!
Sounds pretty normal to me. It doesn't frighten us: these people are not out for trouble. They are good-humoured enough. They are certainly noisy but dangerous? No. Colin, it sounds to me as though you have not lived here in many years.Stick around: you'll soon get used to it (once every four years) Half-naked people, eh? Wow ! And in Lincoln too. How many topless women were there, then ? Didn't get that in Cambridge.
I have been going to soccer games here and abroad for many years. I don't find the fans intimidating: why should I ? (At the one and only baseball game I ever went to, in Los Angeles , a man drew a knife in a scuffle in the car park Smile )
These people in Lincoln weren't going to set upon you or anyone else Roll Eyes Honestly! Though I can readily see that, to an outsider, they might appear trouble but that's a misperception
The real test is this:How many instances have there been of trouble with English fans in Germany? A quick 'google' shows about a dozen at most arrested so far but many more Germans, Poles and others.The offences are generally drunkenness There are tens of thousands out there. There were 30,000 inside the stadium for our first game alone and huge numbers more who have travelled just to be in Germany. They watch on the big public screens.We have vastly more fans there than any other country.
Strangely a couple of English fans were arrested for making a nazi salute, an offence in Germany .
Certainly we have laws to stop trouble. Offenders who have committed crimes connected with soccer games are not allowed to travel. They have to surrender their passports before any international tournament abroad.There are about 200 on record ( I think) who were so affected this time, but I stand to be corrected. So I don't pretend such people do not exist or have not existed among the millions of soccer fans in Britain. However the days of gangs of well-off louts travelling to soccer games in England or abroad with the specific aim of, and arrangements for, meeting like-minded souls for a fight are long gone. They used to plan the fighting in advance and agree a battleground as often as not.That of course was the origin of the law whereby they lose their passports. The TV companies here sometimes have strange 'nostalgia' programmes about those days where middle-aged men recall their great fights of the past. Presumably this is meant to be history. No doubt some of these men are on the banned list still.
06-12-06, 03:10 PM FredPuli
quote: Originally posted by aminator2002: No mention of the fact that Paraguay scored the only goal of the game... on themselves?
Better hold off on the bragging until your team kicks/heads one in for themselves!
Up today...USA's first match. Go USA! And yes, some of us are watching.
Yes, an own goal but one which Beckham could claim for himself, the defender having been forced into the deflection by the accuracy of his free kick (in fact for a while we thought he might be awarded it as his, but the committee that decides these matters overnight thought otherwise). What was of greater concern was that the team seemed to wilt in the heat. And whilst they could 'coast' at one goal up against a team of Paraguay's calibre they ought to have made more chances than they did.
USA 0 Czech Republic 3. The only consolation is that the Czechs played better than any of the teams we've seen so far. The US team were getting outwitted by the cagey old pros of the Czech side. The Czechs have endless ingenuity and the skill to improvise whereas the US team were rather one-dimensional and predictable, playing to a set pattern of plays. The top pros in Europe have seen it all before, probably from childhood, and so they were in place for each move long before it happened.
Don't worry, we often say the same about the England team at the very top level: predictable etc Big Grin
06-12-06, 05:58 PM Karrow
quote: Originally posted by aminator2002: No mention of the fact that Paraguay scored the only goal of the game... on themselves?
Better hold off on the bragging until your team kicks/heads one in for themselves!
Up today...USA's first match. Go USA! And yes, some of us are watching.
At least we won. Big Grin Razz
06-12-06, 08:46 PM Sailracer USA lost 3-Nil; no wonder we can't get excited!!! Roll Eyes
06-12-06, 11:36 PM FredPuli
quote: Originally posted by Sailracer: USA lost 3-Nil; no wonder we can't get excited!!! Roll Eyes
Ah, but next up you play Italy. Should be a stroll for you !
Your best chance to beat Italy is to score first and pray a lot. (If you manage to get to 2-0 up then the game is won for sure even if there's most of it to play ).You can expect the Italian team to suffer exceptionally under the pressure. Their fans have great expectations and are surprisingly hostile to their team if it's losing: this seems to get to the players. Historically this sudden collapsing of morale happened both at club level and with their international sides, so get hoping Big Grin
06-13-06, 03:23 AM Colin, Paris, France Quote: "Sounds pretty normal to me. It doesn't frighten us: these people are not out for trouble. They are good-humoured enough. They are certainly noisy but dangerous? No. Colin, it sounds to me as though you have not lived here in many years.Stick around: you'll soon get used to it (once every four years)"
Get used to the noise and the incessant swearing? Has that really become an acceptable part of England nowadays and even in the presence of my dear old Mum and Dad and everybody else? Mmm. And I'm talking abiout the f-word and the c-word here. Incidentally, I read this item on the Internet last night. And from my old home town at that...
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06-13-06, 10:12 AM aminator2002 In World Cup 2020, the USA will win. We don't have a chance in hell this time around.
I'm cheering for Spain and Argentina this time.
06-13-06, 12:32 PM FredPuli
quote: Originally posted by Colin, Paris, France: Quote: "Sounds pretty normal to me. It doesn't frighten us: these people are not out for trouble. They are good-humoured enough. They are certainly noisy but dangerous? No. Colin, it sounds to me as though you have not lived here in many years.Stick around: you'll soon get used to it (once every four years)"
Get used to the noise and the incessant swearing? Has that really become an acceptable part of England nowadays and even in the presence of my dear old Mum and Dad and everybody else? Mmm. And I'm talking abiout the f-word and the c-word here. Incidentally, I read this item on the Internet last night. And from my old home town at that...
Yes, of course incessant swearing is what we are used to.It's a crowd of youngsters and fans out for a night, not a meeting of the Temperance League !In front of 'Mum and Dad'? Surely the (figurative) 'mum and dad' have heard it all before from a crowd. It is not directed at Mum and Dad, is it? I might well intervene and ask them to calm it if they swore at the 'mum and dad'. But I'd say 'Come on [lads], leave it out a bit" I certainly wouldn't be saying " Steady chaps..ladies present Wink " In fact, you could have done the same, Colin, if any swearing was at your parents. Otherwise there's no special rule that marks your parents out as a reason for a crowd not to behave as such crowds do and have done for many a year.
What's this fuss about the 'c' word and the 'f' word ? It's how youngsters and many football fans address one another, sober or drunk, on an evening out (and elsewhere). There is a strange etiquette even then: no man would call a woman a 'C' but he will call his male friends that. It's not even a class matter. Don't go thinking that it's exclusive to the working class and the chavs. When I was first a student at the Bar,at Inner Temple, forty years ago, I was surprised to find 'Honourables' (as in daughter of a hereditary peer ) and other debs cheerfully swearing that way then ( I was a country boy and hadn't travelled much). I know my own 18 year old girl does it on occasion and with her friends (I've heard her Wink ). Me? I blame the/her parents ! Wink Big Grin (Though you are welcome to say " Society is to blame", if you prefer not to blame us )
Let's face it, here in Cambridge we used to get riotous and raucous behaviour at every Rag Week, every May Ball, every Boat Race night and that was from the drunk and privileged but they got 'ratted' on Pimm's and champagne not Bacardi breezers and lager. Then it was called 'high spirits' and pretty obnoxious it was but the townsfolk had to put up with it. They 'knew their place'. This year there were 10,000 , mostly young, people on Parker's Piece ( the big open square used for cricket etc )for the Paraguay game and there was not a hint of trouble, though they shifted a fair amount of booze.
The drunkenness apart none of the crimes noted in the link are related to the soccer game in any way. People get into fights every day in in every big town. Years ago there was always one pub in Cambridge where people used to go in the expectation of a fight on a Friday and Saturday night: that, and its peculiar culture, has gone. Every town had such places and everyone local knew that (and so my mother, a Cambridge woman, told me not to go to the Red Cow of an evening Wink ) I once went into a pub in Fulham,thirty or more years ago,and, in my innocence remarked on 'the interesting decor' referring to the heavy chains holding the bar stools to the bar. I got a very strange look from the landlady !Sweet, eh? (It was an old pub and the chains were to stop customers picking up the bar stools and using them as weapons Big Grin ) There was at least one pub in Camberwell, London, before then where the landlady kept a bowl of hot water, some cotton wool and some antiseptic under the bar, just for the customers to clean their wounds. That, and its culture, has gone too.
So the world, or that bit of it which is England, has changed a bit. What was it Dr Johnson said to two ladies who congratulated him on the absence of vulgar words in his dictionary? Words to the effect of " Ah, so you've been looking for them, have you? Wink " False innocence, indeed.England is less hypocritical, I hope, than in the past, as well as more egalitarian, and it has moved on from thinking that there is something 'obscene' in a mere word.
06-14-06, 05:18 AM Colin, Paris, France Interesting points you make , Fred (and they're nicely worded too), so I'll just beg to differ on this one. I'm not a stuck-up prude, but my own observation is that, along with the changing times, a "yob culture" has emerged in the UK. ("Yob culture", interestingly, is a term made-in-Britain), and that football matches are a continuing focal point for its espousal. Perhaps as an expat I am more aware of it than those who witness it frequently, but I decry its presence beyond the confines of the group mentality - and the peer pressure that spawns it. Cheers.
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