The whole idea of homosexuality is abhorrent to me personally. That being said, what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business and the government has no business making it theirs. I support civil unions for benefit purposes. ****************** 03-14-04, 06:47 PM cap'n kane Number 2. I'm not homophobic but you can not change the scriptures to accomodate this. IMO Is that what you mean?
03-14-04, 06:50 PM IndigoFlavours Scriptures? No idea what you mean.
What I was referring to is that some people have a problem with calling it marriage but are okay with calling it a civil union. However they are not quite equal with taxes and being valid in other states and such.
03-14-04, 06:58 PM cap'n kane I'd assumed marriage was "Religious Marriage" Oh well, wrong again Roll Eyes ..or as my friend would say "define marriage" Razz
03-14-04, 07:02 PM IndigoFlavours Nah, I am just making the assumption that since people allow atheists and other 'heathens' to get married, then they can't really say that all marriage is religious and use that as a reason against gay marriage. If that made sense Confused My brain is fried from a nonproductive weekend.
03-14-04, 11:04 PM coldfuse I still think government has no place in the marriage business. Ditto Jelp's comments.
03-15-04, 01:30 PM Elexina To me, there is a difference between "marriage" and "religious marriage." I was married, but not "religious married." While our ceremony was performed by a Wiccan Priestess, it was in no way religious in nature. What consenting adults do is their business, yes. I agree. I also feel that adults who have pledged to honor and love each other forever, who have built a life together, who want nothing more than to express their love for one another through marriage vows, ought to be allowed to do so -regardless of their sexual orientation. So yes, I fully support gay marriage. And I fully oppose writing discrimination into the Constitution.
03-15-04, 03:25 PM Lydia I actually answered the question that I "don't care". Not sure I'd use those words, but the way I look at it is that it doesn't affect me...I'm not gay, so I wouldn't enter into a same sex marriage, but I also don't feel that I should be able to determine whether or not they can marry. Friends of my parents have a son who "was" gay...he left his partner of many many years for another woman and now he is married to this woman. This weekend, I was asked by his Mom to sign a petition banning same sex marriages...I think she was quite put out with the fact that I wouldn't sign it (and commented that the fact that her son gave her this petition to have signed was the most hypocritical thing I've experienced in a LONG time!!).
To each their own...it doesn't involve me and it does not affect me (and NO, I don't think that the population of the great planet Earth is at stake because of it!!).
03-15-04, 04:04 PM IndigoFlavours I fully support equal marriage rights.... I see no reason not to.
03-16-04, 04:33 PM samantha I have to be the oddball and go with number five here.
03-16-04, 06:39 PM frankvan I agree with coldfuse, government shouldn't be involved in marriage. But gays and lesbians are no less citizens than heterosexuals so they should have the same rights and privileges. The ideal solution would be the way they do it in France: Everyone is free to marry in whatever religious ceremony they see fit, but they are not considered legally married until they undergo a civil ceremony.
03-17-04, 09:31 AM Georgia85 Samantha, you are no longer the "oddball" Wink
03-20-04, 09:32 AM IndigoFlavours I know this is supposed to be just a poll but I was wondering if you (Samantha and Georgia) could explain why exactly you think homosexual marriage should be banned?
03-20-04, 12:32 PM samantha I feel this way based on my christian beliefs. They are as much a part of me as the air I breathe. People will say in some of these type of questions well, leave your religious beliefs out of this ok? No its not ok. Religion is part of who I am and what I base my morals and values on. So there is no way to leave part of me out of a view I have. I won't argue this as much as some will disagree with me and try. I hope that explains what you wanted to know. I dont argue peoples beliefs for being non christian or whatever they belive. You asked my opinion and that is what i gave.
03-20-04, 01:53 PM IndigoFlavours But America is a secular country. Why should it base its laws and Constitutional amendments on one religion?
P.S. I thank you for opinion and I don't mean to offend you by asking more questions, I am just trying to understand how you justify your position.
03-20-04, 02:16 PM samantha People mistake "seperation of church and state" to mean elimination of church from state entirely,like the mere mention of anything even remotely associated with religion is unconstitutional. The newly approved interim constitution in Iraq declares that the government will not be based on Islam but that Islam will be one of the guiding forces. I believe that is what our forefathers had in mind. Same thing I feel with the Christain religion. You are not upsetting me but, I won't argue religion.
03-20-04, 03:21 PM juanruiz It all depends on your point of view, I guess. Believers see it as freedom of religion. Unbelievers as freedom from religion. As for the Founding Fathers, I think it is as risky to characterize them as a monolithic voice, as it is to maintain that their myriad political writings reflect their personal opinions. In any event, don't forget, samantha, that these same Fathers disenfranchised you as a woman, and failed to deal with the slavery issue. They deserve respect, but do not hold the final word on anything. But don't forget, every state that mandates the closing of liquor stores on Sundays is imposing Christianity on its citizens.
03-20-04, 03:53 PM samantha Glad I don't own any liquor stores Wink
BUT, all this when all i said was my opinion on gay marriages? Eek
03-20-04, 04:59 PM honilov Juan, every state that mandates the closing of liquor stores on Sundays is not necessarily imposing Christianity on its citizens. Non-Christians or liquorholics can buy excess amounts of liquor on Saturday, to drink on Sunday. Forget the closed stores.
03-20-04, 05:39 PM methos Gay Marriage Sam - You are welcome to your religious beliefs, and they should guide your actions. The problem is that a religious belief is not justification for a law.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 3477 | Location: Colfax, WA--the home of the world's largest chain-saw sculpture!! | Registered: 06-03-02
Why should the laws under which I live be dictated by the strictures of a faith not mine? How does it figure that someone else can't do something that does not affect you because you think your God doesn't like it? You think its wrong? By all means, pray over it, teach your values to your children, and don't attend the weddings or other gatherings of those whose unions offend your sense of what is right and proper. I don't think it is wrong and I look forward with great joy to celebrating the weddings of several cherished friends. I'm not saying that you should not be guided by your moral compass, but please don't seek to codify discrimination against others based upon you personal beliefs. ******************** 03-20-04, 06:57 PM teeceeum Okay. A little defense of Sam here. She was asked her opinion and she gave it. She was then asked why and she answered that too. No one has to agree with her. But I, for one, appreciate the fact that she has been straightforward and honest in her answers without resorting to some ridiculous allegorical analogy. 03-20-04, 07:34 PM MrsS Oh, I absolutely agree that Sammy and everyone else is entitled their beliefs....my question probably came out more belligerent than I intended because I am a little testy on this topic lately, and for that I apologize. I would still very much like to know why religious ideals should become actual amendments to the Constitution. 03-20-04, 09:02 PM methos Sam knows I love 'er Wink
Sam posted that she supported a constitutional ban and that she was bothered by people telling her to leave her religion out of it. My response was meant to reflect the fact that she has every right to disagree with same-sex marriage on religious grounds, but that it is not justification for a constitutional (or any other sort of legal) ban. 03-20-04, 09:46 PM samantha Alright now WHERE IS GEORGIA Wink
I am NOT a debater, I only answered a poll question as honset as I could. Thanks TC and I do stand behind my beliefs 100%.
MrsS He is not just MY God but everyones if they want him.. Smile
Methos I understand what you were saying and I hope that it doesnt happen that way. Either way this goes I will still have my beliefs and others will have theres of course. I do not try to challange them on that. I luv ya too! Cool 03-21-04, 09:04 AM juanruiz That one may stock up the day before is irrelevant, honi. The only reason liquor stores were told to stay closed on Sundays is because Christians consider it the Lord's Day. Those who don't are out of luck. 03-21-04, 12:30 PM FredPuli Honi, so much is this Christian principle pervasive here that until very recently in Britain no theatre could have professional shows on Sunday nor were there any sporting fixtures for which there was a price on admisssion .
This was a last relic of Oliver Cromwell's puritanism .It had nothing to do with labour laws. The result was that Sunday was the worst day of the week for many. Even Catholic countries such as France had entertainments and professional sports on Sundays; but irreligious, non-church attending,but protestant Britain had a ban.
Even now , in a fine concession to the temperance movement and the church-going, the permitted hours for the sale of liquor are shorter on Sundays than on other days Confused. (There are no areas now where pubs are shut on Sundays; the last were in parts of Wales,just a few years ago ) 03-21-04, 01:07 PM teeceeum MrsS and Methos: I think you both know that I don't support a Constitutional amendment on this issue. And I'm pretty sure that you know that I have nothing but the deepest respect for each of you and pretty much agree with your positions. Having said that I'm going to attempt to explain how religion did, does and always will creep into our government and its constitution.
We are all the sum total of our experiences. Whatever we’ve done, whatever has happened to us, whatever we’ve been exposed to shapes who we are and how we think. Each of us have developed some sort of philosophy, whether we call it religion or not, based on all these things. That’s where our sense of what is right and wrong stems from. And since the vast majority of people hold some sort of religious belief, their philosophy is based to a greater or lesser degree on religion.
Logically speaking, since these people vote, are elected to office, and are in the majority, it only makes sense to conclude that our government, our constitution and our laws have at least some degree of religious basis. We can argue as to whether this should or should not be so, but as a matter of practicality it is fact.
I know how condescending all this sounds and for that I apologize profusely. I just wanted to present this as simply as I know how.
Now, what I admire about sammy’s posts is the fact that she presented herself honestly and without resorting to outrageous “reasoning”. I accept that she is influenced by her religion. I further accept the all but certain idea that this issue will be legally decided at least in part on religious grounds as have all other issues before it and as will all other issues after it.
And that is why religious ideals will become actual amendments to the Constitution (as they always have) and why it is justification for a constitutional action. That doesn’t mean that I agree with a constitutional ban (I don’t), nor that I want to see this country overtly adopt theology as a form of government (I really don’t). But the religious influence is always there and always will be.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 2257 | Location: Western United States | Registered: 06-03-02
Being gay is worng. It makes our country look bad with all this news going on. Every time I see gay people on t.v. I have to quickly change the channel. If two gay people have children that then will have a big effect on their lives don't you think? Kids will make fun of them. Think of the children. ******************** 03-23-04, 04:05 PM Georgia85 Sorry Sammy...I very rarely come here on the weekends when I am home and yesterday I was offsite all day...so I am just now seeing your cry for "help". But shoot, you don't need me. I am still reeling at how eloquent your post was on "Separation of church and state"
I just spent some time posting my opinion over on one of Kendor's posts...and I will sum it up here. Just because someone has an opinion different from you is no reason for one to have to validate their believes or try to sway others to agree with them.
Like Sammy, I have a very strong religious background. You can say to keep religion out of this but I cannot because my life and the way I choose to live it is governed by God's word. He was appalled enough by homosexuality to totally destroy Sodom and Gommorah, towns that were riddled with promiscuity and blatant sexuality between those of the same sex.
Argue all you like. Accept homosexuality or not. I choose to not accept it. But I do have many friends who are gay...and I love them regardless. I don't have to like the lifestyle they lead. It's really none of my business. But to say that I support Homosexual Marriage is (in my opinion) making a mockery of a union before God.
03-23-04, 04:20 PM methos Georgia - There's the key. I, for one, am not asking you to support gay marriage (though I certainly wouldn't be upset if you did).
I am asking you to allow others to have their own religious beliefs and live according to them. If their religious beliefs don't oppose same-sex marriage in a secular context, why should your beliefs override theirs? This is the difference between option number 5 and the rest.
I do not understand how you can say it is none of your business and still support a constitutional ban.
03-23-04, 04:35 PM Georgia85 Oh it should be as clear as mud to you Methos. Smile
Just because it is none of my business doesn't mean that I have to support it Wink
And I am allowing others to have their own beliefs. You just got to realize that when a post asks for an opinion you have got to let us have an opinion, right or wrong. Now you have my opinion.
03-23-04, 04:43 PM methos Georgia ... and I am sorry to keep pestering... but you are not just not supporting it, and as I have said I am not asking you to.
I understand the concept of not having to support something that you view as none of your business, but that is not what you said you were doing.
You said you support a constitutional ban. This is not just not supporting same sex marriage. This is opposing same-sex marriage to the degree that you would like to change a document that is only changed rarely and was intentionally designed to be difficult to change so that only the most serious of things would justify it. If it is not your business, how can you justify that?
03-23-04, 04:55 PM Scotty
quote:Originally posted by Georgia85: Sorry Sammy...I very rarely come here on the weekends when I am home and yesterday I was offsite all day...so I am just now seeing your cry for "help". But shoot, you don't need me. I am still reeling at how eloquent your post was on "Separation of church and state"
I just spent some time posting my opinion over on one of Kendor's posts...and I will sum it up here. Just because someone has an opinion different from you is no reason for one to have to validate their believes or try to sway others to agree with them.
Like Sammy, I have a very strong religious background. You can say to keep religion out of this but I cannot because _my_ life and the way I choose to live it is governed by God's word. He was appalled enough by homosexuality to totally destroy Sodom and Gommorah, towns that were riddled with promiscuity and blatant sexuality between those of the same sex.
Argue all you like. Accept homosexuality or not. I choose to not accept it. But I do have many friends who are gay...and I love them regardless. I don't have to like the lifestyle they lead. It's really none of my business. But to say that I support Homosexual Marriage is (in my opinion) making a mockery of a union before God.
Georgia, I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you say here. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman ,anything else is a mockery before God. I totally do not understand why homosexuals cannot understand that the act of homosexuality is a sin. I hate the sin ,but not the sinner.
03-23-04, 05:06 PM Georgia85 Methos, I don't have to justify my beliefs to anyone. Again, an opinion was asked for. I gave one.
Scotty, it's nice to know a fellow "brother" Smile
03-23-04, 05:25 PM methos Georgia - Of course you don't have to justify your opinions to anyone. But, I honestly don't understand how you can support a law opposing something you feel is none of your business and I honestly would like to understand.
Although I definitely disagree with it, I understand Scotty's opinion. Unless I am misinterpreting it, he feels it is his business.
03-23-04, 07:07 PM Georgia85 I don't know what to tell ya Methos. Suppose you took drugs...that would be none of my business yet I can still support a law to make drug use illegal. Suppose you cheated on your taxes...that would be none of my business but I can still be appalled by it.
Here's something to think about. Nudity in public places in the US is considered Indecent Exposure. Now who made that decision? Is anyone hurt by it? Perhaps a majority of citizens were offended by it. Perhaps the head of a police department was offended by it. But somewhere along the line nudity caused a big enough uproar that it was banned. The same is holding true for homosexual unions.
I'm not gonna go around gay bashing. As I have mentioned, I know some wonderful people who are gay. But I will stand on my morals and values and firmly state that I do not support the issue of same sex marriage. It goes against everything that this country was founded on so you can just put that in your pipe and smoke it Wink
03-23-04, 07:23 PM methos Ok, ok, I'll lay off, but even in the case of drugs and cheating on taxes, I still don't see how you can support a law against them unless you feel they are your business.
And thanks, but I don't smoke Wink
03-23-04, 07:34 PM Georgia85 Not even a "Pecace Pipe"? Wink Yeah, that's an old southern expression. It means to sit and cogitate on it for awhile.
Actually I blame the upgrades. I can't go back and edit my posts so I couldn't remove the "none of my business" comment. Smile
Alright, I'm spent. I'm leaving now so all the grown-ups can play. Just don't do anything I wouldn't...or anything i would Big Grin
03-23-04, 07:35 PM Georgia85 Gay Marriage Strike that...rewind... Not even a "Peace Pipe"? Wink
03-23-04, 07:53 PM methos I'm familiar with the expression (not sure/wasn't aware it's purely/mostly southern), just trying to lighten the mood Wink
nah, no pipes for me Wink
03-24-04, 12:46 PM Elexina This is not a Pipe
No offense, Doug, but I think it is the careless and uneducated people who cannot spell or edit, and preach censorship and intolerance make our country look bad. Wink I suppose I can understand what you are saying about changing the channel. Every time I see a heterosexual relationship portrayed on television, usually with a fat lazy husband and a whiney obnoxious wife, I get nauseous and feel the need to change the channel. At least gay people are nice to each other. Kids only make fun of others because they are taught that it is acceptable to pick on differences. Kids make fun of kids who wear glasses or kids who have crooked teeth or kids who write left-handed because they are raised to believe that this is all right to do. I do think of the children, and I think that if everyone were just a little bit nicer and a little bit more understanding and a little bit less hateful, the world would be a far better place.
quote:Originally posted by Scotty: Marriage is a union between a man and a woman ,anything else is a mockery before God.
You see, Scotty, the trouble with this statement is this: not everyone believes in your god. And, not everyone who believes in your god agrees with that statement. There are plenty of homosexual Christians who obviously think otherwise. To me, marriage is a sacred union, one entered into with love, honor, respect and loyalty. That is what marriage ought to be about. It is not about the sex of those involved. You and Georgia and everyone else are welcome to your beliefs, of course! I would not want to sway something held so strongly and dearly. But you do have to understand that your god is not the supreme authority for everyone, nor does He say the same things to everyone who reads the Bible. I do not have a problem with a difference of opinion. However, our government is a secular one and ought not be swayed by religious conviction, nor should discrimination be written into our Constitution, a document which grants rights rather than takes them away, and purports to offer equality to everyone.
quote: I totally do not understand why homosexuals cannot understand that the act of homosexuality is a sin.
Probably because they can’t understand why their love of a fellow human being would be condemned. Probably because their love of a person of the same sex is every bit as normal and natural (to them, and to me, as well) as a heterosexual's love of someone of the opposite sex.
Georgia, you don't have to justify anything, but I think we're just looking for a better understanding of your opinions. I think that if you feel strongly enough about something that you want to see it outlawed, then it must have become your business somewhere along the line. But you feel differently and I guess you can't explain it any better than you have... I don't think anyone was criticizing you for your opinion so much as just looking to understand it.
03-24-04, 02:52 PM Georgia85 "but I think it is the careless and uneducated people who cannot spell or edit, and preach censorship and intolerance make our country look bad"
Just for clarification, if you are referring to my above typo of "peace" rest assured that I most certainly can spell...I just can't type with long nails...and I just can't edit my posts anymore. Smile
As for people wanting to understand why I feel the way I do, I haven't sensed that. All I have sensed is that there are many who accept homosexuality and are adament about it being normal. Yet they are no more justifying their beliefs than I am (or so they think). I've clearly stated that I feel it goes against my religion. So for those of you who feel homosexuality is a normal act or who fully accept same sex marriages please enlighten me as to why you feel the way you do. Is it because some of you have close friends that are leading this life? Is it because some of you are leading this life? Is it because some of you are extremely liberal?
I'm not trying to make enemies here. I just want to have my say on things just like everyone else.
03-24-04, 03:09 PM IndigoFlavours Okay, why I support gay marriage:
1. There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality.
2. Denying them this natural right to marriage is discrimination and makes them second-class citizens.
3. It doesn't hurt anybody whatsoever.
Edit: and Georgia, I understand why you feel the way you do. You feel it is a part of your religion and that it is wrong because the Bibble condemns it. What I DON'T understand is why you accept this condemnation, while there are uncountable flaws within the Bible that people tend to ignore. As I have said on the debate thread, how do you know that this isn't just another flaw?
Another Edit: and I think the typo comment was directed at Doug, which is why it said "Doug" right before the comment Wink
03-24-04, 04:14 PM methos Georgia - I feel like I'm (at least in part) being addressed by your disbelief in others' intentions since I was talking about understanding. Let me try to make some things clear.
I did not and do not ask you to explain why you believe homosexuality is wrong. While I disagree with you, I understand your reasons.
What I did not and still do not understand is how you can reconcile feeling something (anything) is none of your business with wanting to change the constitution to outlaw it.
Notice that I have not asked Scotty to help me understand him. While I disagree with him, I understand how someone who thinks something is their business would support a law against it.
Although I still do not understand, I'm not asking you to explain it to me anymore, either. I am just responding to reiterate my intentions because you questioned my honesty regarding them.
03-24-04, 04:15 PM Georgia85 Indigo, I have heard that there are flaws in the Bible. I have also heard that people will point out those flaws to try to waiver or cause one to question their Christian beliefs.
You support gay marriage because there "is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality". Isn't that line of reasoning about as well backed up as my line of reasoning when I say that Homosexuality is wrong? I'm just curious. It's a matter of differing viewpoints.
"It doesn't hurt anybody whatsoever" Well, perhaps it doesn't hurt someone in the physical sense. But what about an emotional impact it might have on family and friends?
And if by your "edits" you are showing off that you can do it while I can't, please don't. I'm having to type sooooo muuuuch slower now just to make sure I don't make mistakes. Which I still think Elexina was making a reference to me since she did start off her statement with "This is not a pipe" Wink
03-24-04, 06:56 PM juanruiz
quote:Originally posted by Elexina: _This is not a Pipe_
Is an allusion to work of the Belgian artist Michel Foucault. A drawing of a pipe under which is the the caption "ça n'est pas une pipe"
Which implies that which we see may not be what we see.
03-26-04, 10:31 AM Elexina Georgia, I was not referring to you. And that was just my sense of the questions. I'm sorry you didn't see it that way.
Why do I think homosexuality is normal? First, because homosexuals are living life as is normal and natural for them. It doesn’t strike them as odd to be attracted to members of the same sex, so why should it strike me as odd? This rationale does not hold us in all circumstances (pedophilia, child-incense, bestiality) but I am talking about consenting human adults here. Second, because love is natural and beautiful no matter who (consenting human adults, again) it is between. I have seen homosexuals in love and it is sweet and romantic and sexy and wonderful. Often, it’s far more honest and real than hetero love!
JR: exactly. Just trying a little levity, here.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 261 | Location: Cleveland,OH USA | Registered: 06-04-02
The question posed was about whether or not I support gay marriage.
My answer is that I support "marriage" for anyone who is committed to loving one other person in their entirety for life. Marriage is a commitment and a promise of unending love. I'm very saddened anytime a marriage ends; my own first marriage ending was devastating.
To me, it doesn't matter who loves who, it's about love and commitment and wanting to share that commitment with one other person in your life. To me, it's about life long love; the union between two people.
I have read so many posts here about "the rights and wrongs" of homosexuality as it relates to the Bible. I know what the Bible instructs and I also know that I will leave judgment to God, not to me or the US Government.
Wasn't it Jesus who said "let he who is without sin be the first to cast stones?" Why are so many of us willing to cast stones on this topic? Are all our lives so pure that we have never gone against the Biblical word ... not even once?
Let's get back to the question at hand. Do you or do you not support homosexual marriage? I did not read "do you think the Bible supports homosexual marriage." ********** 04-21-04, 06:22 PM stampeding turtles Indigo you shouldn't have to justify "why".... in a free country we should do it because we must, because it's the right thing to do. It's about liberty and justice. It's about fairness. It's about respect. It's about love for the ideals of individual rights and freedoms.
It's about letting others do what is right for them, because it doesn't hurt you.
Homosexuality is not wrong for gay people,but it might be wrong... if you aren't gay. This is what people don't really seem to understand. In other words, you have to be true to your nature.
Call it something else if the word "marriage" bothers you. Call it 'Green Eggs and Ham' for all I care, but let it have the same benefits and freedoms accorded to those who truly commit to one another in love and support.
I will not support writing discrimination into the Constitution, by an amendment.
You can't keep others down without it hurting you in the long run. There will be a price to pay in the future for denying equal rights and freedoms now. Much civil unrest and pain is ahead for those who exercise tyranny over others. Americans should learn from the misery of their history concerning these matters. But it seems we never do... and we have to continue to learn the lessons over and over again.
04-21-04, 09:09 PM IndigoFlavours I agree whole-heartedly ST.
04-21-04, 10:48 PM Sarai
quote:Originally posted by Georgia85:
"It doesn't hurt anybody whatsoever" Well, perhaps it doesn't hurt someone in the physical sense. But what about an emotional impact it might have on family and friends?
The emotional impact it has on family and friends is not the result of homosexuality. It is the result of bigotry. Interracial marriages will have an emotional impact on some families, but do you believe that a person shouldn't be allowed marry someone she loves simply because some people might be hurt by it due to their racism? Of course not.
The evil causing pain in that case is race-prejudice, not interracial marriages. The evil in this case is sexual-prejudice, not homosexuality.
04-22-04, 06:44 PM MrsS Looked at from Sarai's viewpoint, ANY marriage can, and many marriages do, cause heartache and anger for someone....His mom thinks the girl is not good enough, her dad wanted her to marry within their faith,Grandma objects to the bride's lack of a college degree, the groom's brother can't stand the bride's sister and the feeling is mutual.... In my own marriage, I lucked out, our respective friends and families like each other just fine and no one concerned had any reservations about us marrying, but not everyone can say that. While it is ideal not to have your joy cause pain to those you hold dear, ultimately each of us can only live our own lives and we must do what is right for us.
04-23-04, 02:53 PM Scotty It seems to me that most of the people here do not want to hear your opinion if it is different from theirs. They want you to agree with their position or keep quiet. Why ask for opinions if you don't want to hear them?
04-23-04, 11:04 PM Oceangurl I enjoy different opinions. What annoys me is when the subjects take a direction that breaks too far away from the original question, and then becomes fodder for very targeted attacks.
We can all express opinions without becoming insensitive to the feelings of others.
04-25-04, 03:20 AM puppyblues
quote:Originally posted by Georgia85: Methos, I don't have to justify my beliefs to anyone. Again, an opinion was asked for. I gave one.
Scotty, it's nice to know a fellow "brother" Smile
Now THAT'S scary Roll Eyes
04-26-04, 01:27 PM frankvan
quote:Originally posted by Scotty: It seems to me that most of the people here do not want to hear your opinion if it is different from theirs. They want you to agree with their position or keep quiet. Why ask for opinions if you don't want to hear them?
It seems to me that most people here give their opinion on all manner of subject, including their opinion of your opinions. I find that if everyone seems to think my opinion is misguided or stupid, I ought to re-think it. Isn't that how education happens??
04-26-04, 05:25 PM clarebear
quote: Is an allusion to work of the Belgian artist Michel Foucault. A drawing of a pipe under which is the the caption "ça n'est pas une pipe"
Which implies that which we see may not be what we see.
I know that piece!! Smile
I don't think the government should be involved in marriage. I think it would be interesting to see the divorce rate of gay "marriages". The heterosexual community has a divorce rate of 50%.(Not very impressive is it?)
04-28-04, 12:21 PM Rakuchild I learned a lot about marriage by getting divorced. Taught me to separate the elements of marriage and I decided the legal aspects weren't necessarily in my favor as a woman in this state. And the non-legal aspects can be declared and shown by example through living.
The lesbian couple across the street from me consider themselves married. They had a public ceremony and raise their children together. I accept and respect their commitment to each other and to their children. Those are the best behaved kids on the block. As far as I'm concerned, they have a two parent family unit. In every way, they live a married life, certainly in the spirit of the word marriage. I'm all for giving them the legalization if that's what they want.
I would imagine the divorce rate for same-sex marriages wouldn't be too different from hetero unions. There are same-sex couples that stay together for life. A couple of years ago a man here lost his partner of over 50 years! They were very out but we have no real way of knowing how many closeted partners stayed together for that long in the past.
05-04-04, 10:56 PM DvdGStwrt Gay Marriage Having thought about it for a long while I have come to the conclusion that all marriage is wrong, unnatural and calls upon people to do a thing which is out of the norms of human experience.
"Until death do us part." In truth over 50% of first marriages end well before death. I only wish that these people would live up to the vow and either kill themselves or kill their mate. Divorce is ugly business, a multibillion dollar business which always ends up with playing tennis with the kids who bounce back and forth between parents and are put in the middle of the petty hatred of the parents. If they don't have kids, then and only then should they be allowed divorce. If they have kids, they should be forced to stay together until the kids move out - on their own.
Divorce is despised by God. So despised that the bible says:
Malachi 2:16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel,..."
No where in the bible do we find God saying flat out he hates homosexuals. In fact God doesn't come right out and say "I hate..." anything. (go ahead, look it up in the bible)
Pushing religion aside:
Science clearly demonstrates that males, human males are designed for more than one spouse. This is why when they hit mid life they boink the secretary or go out and get a mistress, sometimes even keeping a "second" household. Further we are not designed (indeed our species would never have lasted in its early years) for monogamy. Lastly, love always grows cool, and with that many fall out of love and they come to hate the person who they are bound to "until death do us part."
Yes, our species survived because males are not monogamous - females can not reproduce every year, males, on the other hand, can impregnate many females in a short period of time. Survival of the species means that males will roam - if not physically then mentally - its in their nature. Being Married to one female for ever and ever is totally against the natural order of things.
It is statistically important to note that Divorce is higher than marriage. Many have given up on the idea of marriage and live in Sin - Simply because they know that marriage is unnatural and against human nature. An abomination to the humanity that created it.
Marriage is a fairy tale which no one can seriously live up to. If it wasn't then we wouldn't have divorce courts and a divorce rate so high.
In that vein I do not support any marriage - It is unnatural and only leads to God hating you.
Malachi 2:16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel,
Cheers
David
05-05-04, 09:08 AM Georgia85 I think I'm gonna agree with you on this one David Smile
Throughout the years of being single and watching my friends marry, divorce, remarry, and the divorce again...I have concluded that I have no desire to be tied down to one man and to feel obligated to spend the rest of my life with him. My tastes are always changing. I know if I were to find the one for me...within a year's time I'd be interested in something else. You know us women...we have clean minds cause we change them so often! Wink
05-16-04, 03:58 PM Oceangurl While I often agree with you David, I do not agree with you on this stance.
First, regardless as to whether I have been divorced or not, God will not hate me.
Yes, many marriages end in divorce and I agree that if people are unable to make the committment to be married and live a married life, they should not enter into marriage. Yes, I agree that children are batted back and forth like a tennis ball, and that is wrong.
However, I do not believe modern man should be judged by his "nature" of being designed to impregnate many women and thus build our society. Modern man has the ability to make intellectual choices that are not purely driven by his instictive nature.
Marriage is different to different people. In my opinion marriage is about love, trust, and companionship through life. I prefer to be married and have a husband rather than live my life alone.
According to the bible, if you are not married, you should not engage in any sexual act.
Herbrews 13.4: "Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adulterty."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Oceangurl, 05-16-04 05:53 PM
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 879 | Location: The real "OC" | Registered: 06-07-02
It makes our country look bad with all this news going on. Every time I see gay people on t.v. I have to quickly change the channel. If two gay people have children that then will have a big effect on their lives don't you think? Kids will make fun of them. Think of the children.
