OK - count to ten before you respond!

The phrase "moral crisis in America" is perhaps overused, often by Christian conservatives in support of their crusades. But is there something to this, even if it's not yet a "crisis" or you come from a different beliefs system?

I'll stipulate in advance that many violent crime, drug use, and other statistics have improved over the past twenty-five years. However, I still sense that tolerance has given way to apathy, and hypocrisy to permission.

Why does my fourteen year-old son go to a friend's house for the first time and have marijuana offered to him by...the friend's parents?

Why is there an attitude that it's only wrong if you get caught? Even then why can Mrs. 'Fuse, a college teacher, catch a student cheating on an examination and have the student say, "Well I didn't really use the answer I looked up in the bathroom so I did nothing wrong."

And what of the board rooms, court rooms, and oval office - have their occupants provided examples that have eroded our trust and negatively influenced our ethics?

In a struggle to be nice and accommodate everybody, have we lost something? I would love to see as many opinions as possible on this.
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02-19-04, 09:50 PM
jusork
Well, when you think about it there's always been a few people who try (or hesitantly move towards trying) to take an opportunity that is unethical. I think those who generally have good morals are still in the majority. Just today, on another site, someone said they were at an ATM and someone left their card in the slot. The person who found it turned it in.

Ignoring rules because you don't think they are rules has been done by anyone who thinks their beliefs matter more and I think it's a normal way of thinking even if not the best way. They don't see the bad in it. So why would someone ignore what they don't think is bad just because other people believe they should?

02-19-04, 09:59 PM
Kendor
Lax morals, caused by shallow thinking, and impulsive comraderie, are to blame. [More to come]....

02-19-04, 11:56 PM
honilov
Yes, there is definitely a moral crisis in America. When did it start or how did it start might be hard to pinpoint. I do know it didn't happen all of a sudden. This has been gradually happening over the years. In other words, morals are fading away in the sunset. Teaching children good morals doesn't necessarily means that they won't be influenced by someone with no morals at all. It's sad but true. We are almost at the point where we can only hope for the best as we do our best.

02-20-04, 12:23 AM
samantha
I agree with Honilov there is a moral crisis in America. I can see things changing all the time. I don't know why but most kids seem to have little or no respect at all for the elderly or anyone else, maybe espically theirself. I know drugs and all are on the rise but, this can't be the whole answer here. What IS going on in society today.

02-20-04, 12:56 AM
stampeding turtles
I would like, if I may, to take the opposite viewpoint.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think there is a moral "crisis" anymore today than there was at other times. I am aware that as people grow older and make a fetish about safety/security issues by becoming more conservative, they alway say that about the seeming laxity of morals in comparison to the past. I have read in history books that almost every generation thinks they are on the verge of collapse due to libertine living and the lack of disciplined lives. In fact, it is almost comical to see how much a "constant" it really is throughout time.

I think it's the price we pay for a free society, rather than a rigidly controlled one.... say in a theocracy like in Islamic countries where Church and State are not seperate like they should be. In this respect, I believe our society is superior (I know that is politically incorrect to say that) in allowing personal freedoms in life, liberty, and pursuit of personal happiness. And if the price we pay for freedom is potential collapse, then that's the way the "cookie gets stomped on and totally obliterated." (Douglas Adams)

I think it is wiser if we don't ty to over-control the few that are abusing the freedoms. It is a hard lesson for Americans to learn as we have a hard time with control issues I think. Because as a people we are touchy and prone to overreact by becoming more controlling and tyrannical, and pass more rules, laws, regulations, and severe security measures etc, so that no one "unstatuses our quo" and interferes with our creature comforts.... and money.... and social power.

I am beginning to think that the more we try to control it, the more likely it is to come apart. In my own life, the more I have tried to control somebody or something, the more likely I was to see rebellion and chaos develop. So I had to exert even more control, and I became a tyrant, but always with the best of intentions of course.

One of my relatives growing up always said "let it be" to a lot of things. (albeit he was a STOIC farmer, and whose philosophy was "live and let live") he rarely argued or interfered with anybody's personal views or life and would just raise an amused eyebrow or affect a detached consternation pose, instead of expressing heated, contrary opinions. He wasn't a crank, always trying to convert everyone to his way of thinking. I think we need more people like that, instead of all the cranks and prigs we have in American society.

02-20-04, 06:44 AM
samantha
I wonder how much more are we going to have to have happen if we don't take a stand now. I don't think we have strict enough laws now myself. Everyday you hear of murder, families murdering families, kids killing parents , parents killing their kids, our society is a mess I think. Where does it stop? I wonder all the time how is it going to be when i reach say fifty? I am 26 now. Give it another 25 years what is it going to be like then?

02-20-04, 06:55 AM
Fritzzs
Is there a "moral crisis in America?"

No !!!

Unless , of course you are one of those who believe that others who don't believe like you do, are unmoral.....

02-20-04, 08:02 AM
honilov
Could it be that many people that don't the crisis, could be part of the crisis? Just something to ponder! Think about it, because it is so obvious that morals have changed tremendously from years gone by (for the worse).

02-20-04, 09:31 AM
methos

quote:Originally posted by samantha:
... I know drugs and all are on the rise but, this can't be the whole answer here...


Actually, the trend has been towards declining drug use for decades. The number of people having used drugs in the past 30 days (according to the White House) was cut in half over the past 25 years. In this, and many (though I'm sure not all) other cases, the "moral crisis" is a matter of perception winning out over reality.

I do think there are some areas where morals have gotten more lax, but I would argue that, over the past couple centuries, society's morals have improved overall. Women are now acknowledged to be entitled to the same rights as men. Being gay, black, etc. are rarely seen as justifiable reasons to beat a person within an inch of their life or worse in these "morally bankrupt" times.

02-20-04, 10:51 AM
Fritzzs
posted 02-20-04 08:02 AM
Could it be that many people that don't the crisis, could be part of the crisis? Just something to ponder!

Translate please - means what ?

02-20-04, 07:07 PM
honilov
Actually Donrent, I made a typo, but an average person still can understand. Having said that, pissoff.

02-20-04, 07:24 PM
coldfuse
donrent -

How ironic that one who is regularly challenged by spelling and grammar is chastising another of our members for a mere typographical error.

An elementary school teacher would wear out a red pencil correcting the spelling, grammar, wrong word and punctuation errors in the first post of this thread.

Perhaps I am being harsh, but your lack of manners offends me.

02-20-04, 07:59 PM
jusork
Samantha, where do you see these disrespectfull kids at? I'd say it'd be hard to find kids who don't respect someone (unless maybe they're a stubbourn elementary school kid). I think you're being too hard on the kid population and I'd find it highly unlikely for you to rarely have a kid say thanks to you or do something else nice for you.

And to your second post, society is only a mess depending how you look at it. Compared to a perfect world, it is a mess. But compared to a realistic world, we're doing fine I think. Think how small the number of people you see on the news is compared to just your city alone. There are millions of families with typical, good lives.

Honi, have morals really changed that tremendously? I think immorality is low enough right now that imorality years ago must've been none for it to have gone up by your tremendous rate. There really aren't that many immoral people right now and it's pretty obvious with all the people you meet on a daily basis. Most of them are following most rules.

I think the reason human society has these constant flaws is because people are fickle. Laws can't hold everything back all the time.

02-20-04, 08:14 PM
frankvan
I take issue with those who deplore the growth of 'political correctness', or equate tolerance with apathy. I don't think you can be too tolerant any more than you can believe too strongly in equality.. If you understand that giving everyone else on the planet the benefit of the doubt, until they prove undeserving ; you can no more be 'too tolerant' than you cn be too loving. The population of the world has more than doubled during my lifetime, technological advances have produced many innovations, with potential for both man's benefit and his destruction. Morals necessarily change but basic ethical behavior continues to remain: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don't think we have a moral crisis - we just don't all agree on what rules are universally acceptable, and we aren't all as wise as we could be.

02-22-04, 07:16 AM
Fritzzs
COLDFUSE AND HONILOV:

Yes , we all make typos, but the fact is I did not "understand" what was written and simply asked for an explanation as to what was written....
Now, I get my ass chewed out by what are apparently two very unmannered, arrogant childern...
Honi; I am soooooooooo sorry I bothered you... Rest assured it won't happen again...(ya right!)

[This message was edited by donrent on 02-22-04 at 07:42 AM.]

02-22-04, 11:40 AM
aminator2002
Is there a moral crises in this thread???Big Grin

There always has been a moral crises in America. It just changes. A country founded on killing off the Native people and enslaving half the population... do you really think all the minor things we encounter everyday even compare to that?


The proper response is not to pass new laws or get hysterical but to lead by example. Good people need to show the way.... that's the only approach that works.

02-22-04, 11:58 AM
puppyblues
LOL@Ami's first line Big Grin

I think we live in a society of 'I want it now, not later, now, so I'm going to have it now'. We want what we want when we want it. We teach our kids (well, not everyone, but some do) instant gratification and not to work hard and enjoy what we have.

But, I think it started long ago, it's just now catching up with us.

02-22-04, 06:41 PM
honilov
Donrent, I am sooooooooooooo sorry that you bothered me, too. I'm also soooooooooo sorry that you have forced me to stoop low enough to to sound ignorant, but I didn't explain to you because you have told one of the biggest lies on me that could be told, and I don't have to deal with people like you. Get my drift, man?

Maybe there 'is' a moral crisis in this thread, because I feel that I've lost my morals by being forced to say what I just said. Peace brother.

02-24-04, 09:25 PM
Kendor
I have to agree with the ever insightful aminator here.

And I had to comment on this:

quote:Originally posted by frankvan:
I don't think we have a moral crisis - we just don't all agree on what rules are universally acceptable, and we aren't all as wise as we could be.



So, frank, just what is your idea of a moral crisis?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,