OK, time again to bat this one around a bit. What are your thoughts on legalizing marijuana?
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04-21-06, 03:52 AM
FredPuli
You mean it's illegal? Nobody told us here in Chelsea Big Grin.

Blimey ! You'll be telling me that they are going to make cocaine illegal next Eek

And that's part of the question. Cannabis is as close to legal in Britain as makes no difference provided that the quantity found in the person's possession is only such as would be for their personal use. There is no set maximum quantity and strictly speaking having any amount is against the law but the worst outcome would normally be a police caution,. Cannabis has just been downgraded to the lowest class of illegal drug too,with the consequence that it now attracts the lowest penalties. Nobody says it, but this is surely connected with the fact that our present leaders were at university at a time when cannabis smoking was just becoming common. (Mr Blair was in a student rock band.... say no more ! Wink )

Nobody around here can remember a case of police raiding a party just to find cannabis users .

The stuff is so freely available and so cheap the wonder is that anyone finds any great profit in smuggling it and, in practice, the 'big boys' are dealing in cocaine.

In truth if cannabis were made legal here there would probably be little change to the present position and few would notice any difference.

We got this all a the wrong way round many centuries ago. If we had made alcohol illegal and not had it as part of our social culture but had cannabis legal our laws would have made sense.The amount of crime, death and injury caused by drinkers would never have been matched by cannabis users, however stoned they were Smile

04-21-06, 04:22 AM
clarebear
I've heard both sides of the pot argument many times. I personally hope they never legalize it.

My ex-husband could be a poster dude for the reasons not to. Ya know dude. Yeah. Oh wait. Omg. Did I just type that? Hmmmm... I wonder if anyone is reading this thread. OMG... you ALL are reading this thread. You're all looking at me!! Eek What do I do? DO I log out? Oh man. Its ok. Calm down Clare... its ok. You're just in the box- step away from the box. Its cool. What was the question again? I forgot? Oh well. Later people.

04-21-06, 05:50 AM
Sherasi
i'm confused. Wink

I think that it could be legal for medical use. I also think it could be legal but available only at controlled stores like governmental liquer stores. That way they could tax it and it would STILL be cheaper than on the street... and reduce the crime related to that drug at least.

04-21-06, 08:46 AM
coldfuse
One resource for factual information:

Marijuana Facts

from the National Institute of Health / National Institute on Drug Abuse website

04-21-06, 09:50 PM
Kelleygirl
Sorry, Fuse, but some of these side effects sound like they're right out of the movie "Reefer Madness". I've known quite a few folks who have smoked quite a few joints and haven't incurred any of these problems. IMO, I wouldn't have any issue with anyone (adults) growing their own pot for their own personal use. The jail time for getting busted with pot are sometimes worse than murder
--- RIDICULOUS!

04-22-06, 09:50 AM
Sarai

quote:
Originally posted by clarebear:
I've heard both sides of the pot argument many times. I personally hope they never legalize it.

My ex-husband could be a poster dude for the reasons not to. Ya know dude. Yeah. Oh wait. Omg. Did I just type that? Hmmmm... I wonder if anyone is reading this thread. OMG... you ALL are reading this thread. You're all looking at me!! Eek What do I do? DO I log out? Oh man. Its ok. Calm down Clare... its ok. You're just in the box- step away from the box. Its cool. What was the question again? I forgot? Oh well. Later people.



This wins the Sarai award for the first time I have EVER literally LMAO from a forum post. I never use "LMAO" because I never do, but this time, I did! Big Grin

04-22-06, 10:49 AM
aminator2002
I think it should be legal.

Drunks are not funny either, but alcohol is legal. Alcohol is addictive, dangerous and impairs reasoning even more. Even worse than the guy hiding behind his couch due to paranoia is the guy that wants to swing and punch people for telling him that he really is too drunk to drive. The violent effect of alcohol on people is virtually non-existant in pot smokers.

It doesn't have to come from a foreign country or support terrorism... people can grow it. It's not an argument of health risks I hope because after all then we could make all sorts of things illegal.

I believe the Europeans have the approach right. Don't waste time or money getting into people's personal lives and deal with drug traffic that really does have negative effects on society as a whole.

04-22-06, 11:09 AM
babthrower
Yeeow, Clare, flashback. Eek

It's legal here for personal use. You have to have a big, big baggie of it to get in trouble in your own home.

But lots of people want to fully legalize it and recognize it medically so they can get their supply free from the government just for handing in a scrip from their doctor.

Even now there is a lineup of people who want to be declared bipolar or something so they can graduate from "welfare" (slang for social services money for the chronically unemployed) to "Disabled" (slang for social services money for the chronically unemployable.)

The Disability Pension is lifelong, including meds, and pays a few bucks more than welfare, plus no one bugs you about getting a job. (This is a major headache for people who are simply on welfare. Those Social Workers just won't quit, and you've got to take the trouble to remember last time's excuse so they can't trip you up.)

Also there are all sorts of support services, such as people to come and clean your apartment for you if you're too lazy to do it yourself, or drive you to the supermarket and help you shop, which is not available to a humble welfare recipient.

04-22-06, 01:44 PM
Sherasi

quote:
Originally posted by babthrower:"Disabled" (slang for social services money for the chronically unemployable.)

The Disability Pension is lifelong, including meds, and pays a few bucks more than welfare, plus no one bugs you about getting a job. (This is a major headache for people who are simply on welfare. Those Social Workers just won't quit, and you've got to take the trouble to remember last time's excuse so they can't trip you up.)

Also there are all sorts of support services, such as people to come and clean your apartment for you if you're too lazy to do it yourself, or drive you to the supermarket and help you shop, which is not available to a humble welfare recipient.



I do agree that there are those who abuse the system claiming disability when they really CAN work and choose to not do so. But there ARE those who are legitimately disabled who are not scamming the goverment.

04-22-06, 01:52 PM
babthrower
Clearly anyone who needs assistance has the right to get it under Canadian law.

But it's sad when a young person's idea of success in life is to manage to convince a health care professional to wrongly label him/her as 'disabled' in order to be eligible for a lifelong pension. Because after a few years of idleness, the pensioner does become truly disabled.

04-22-06, 02:07 PM
clarebear
Maybe if marijuana was legal, the prices would be lower. This would enable the ones scamming the welfare system to purchase their drugs at a low income rate. This would allow for a greater stretch of their $100 bills for such necessities as candy and aluminum foil. Next, there will be a fight to get marijuana classified as produce. It then can be bought with food stamps for homemade brownies!

04-22-06, 03:27 PM
babthrower
Clarebear, that's so logical that you know it would never work.

quote:
Originally posted by clarebear:
Maybe if marijuana was legal, the prices would be lower. This would enable the ones scamming the welfare system to purchase their drugs at a low income rate.



You know that the drug cartel will immediately grab it under some pretext, patenting a strain of it maybe, and then the only legal way to get it would be by prescription, and only that strain. And the lobbyists will see that it happens. So the poor sap of a taxpayer gets to pay for it. Big Grin

04-22-06, 03:34 PM
coldfuse

quote:
Originally posted by Kelleygirl:
Sorry, Fuse, but some of these side effects sound like they're right out of the movie "Reefer Madness". I've known quite a few folks who have smoked quite a few joints and haven't incurred any of these problems...


That sounds exactly like my teenage son (who, by the way, has been struggling with pot controlling him, not the other way around). Maybe you're both right. After all, I have known 90 year old multiple-pack-a-day smokers who didn't die of cancer, too.

But when I look at the facts from the National Institute of Health, have those confirmed independently and without asking from my son's pediatrician, and have them confirmed independently and without asking again from a trained therapist I have to start thinking, "Hey, maybe we're full of *&%$ about pot."

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't just as bad as alcohol. Maybe it's "less bad" than cocaine or heroin. So?

With the potential exception as a medical value, it's not good stuff.

04-22-06, 04:43 PM
Sarai
I agree with Coldfuse. I have a good friend from high school who never grew out of the phase of drug experimentation. He smokes pot daily (I'm sure he uses other drugs as well, but pot is the only one he doesn't feel guilty about using, so he uses it all the time, not just on weekends as I suspect he does with other drugs- although he won't tell me about any other drugs because he is embarrassed by it). It is very sad. He used to be so bright and funny and fun to be around. Now his train of thought is often hard to follow and his judgment in life is even harder to understand. My old best friend has become the epitome of a "burn out." I hate it.

04-22-06, 11:24 PM
Kelleygirl
I suppose that everything and anything can be abused --- alcohol, food, sex -- you name it. And so that being said, I am sure that one can use pot to an abusive state. But if one follows "the golden mean", IMO marijuana may be a relaxing and enjoyable resource --- and because there will always be those who will use it to an excess, that shouldn't keep it from being legalized. The medicine is worse than the sickness --- throwing people in jail for using something that grows as natural as tomatoes.

04-22-06, 11:56 PM
DorianGreyed
While I agree that marijuana may be less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes, my mind keeps coming back to one thing. I've been around the block and down the alley more than most people, and have seen more of this kind of life than most cops. I have never heard one single person say, "You know, I wish I had smoked more dope when I was younger." Most of the long term dopers I know think that they are functioning. They are not. Whether it's alcohol or marijuana, staying straight just long enough to get through the work day isn't really functioning.

04-23-06, 12:17 AM
Kelleygirl
DG, I like beer -- on occasion -- maybe a couple of beers a week. I'm not advocating lighting up every chance you get, but having an occasional joint shouldn't get you arrested. Also I am so sure that if the government could somehow reap the benefits of taxes from pot, it would definitely be legalized tomorrow.

04-23-06, 03:23 PM
aminator2002
People who like smoking pot are going to do it whether it's legal or not, so all you all are doing is turning them into criminals instead of burnouts. Even Fuses son, who obviously has solid parenting, has chosen to smoke pot even though it's illegal... so did half of my high school class.

It should not be legal for kids to have or smoke pot, but who's to say that something that only affects the individual should result in hefty fines or jail time? Should people that eat themselves into the size of a grand piano also go to jail? What about the chronic alcoholics that are pickling their livers rather than just dulling their senses?

For all your stories of burned out people, there are many more unheard stories of people who smoke an occasional joint and never suffer from the ill effects of long term substance abuse (PROBABLY ALL OF YOU AT ONE TIME.) (BUT I'LL TRY TO RESIST THE URGE TO USE THE TERM HYPOCRITES). And there are also a group of people out there that use the pot to self medicate and they might be on prescription mood altering substances if not for the pot.

I don't think there is any justification for the rare user that can't make it through the day without smoking a bowl to affect the whole legislation. It's crazy... that same person would probably be finding a way to get Vicadin if they couldn't have the dope. Otherwise they'd be sniffing glue or beating their head into a wall... just gotta get that high.

What good does having it illegal really do?

04-23-06, 03:58 PM
Xanadu

quote:
.....but who's to say that something that only affects the individual should result in hefty fines or jail time?


It can affect others too. If you drive whilst high on pot, it is like driving whilst under the influence of alcohol. And you reactions and judgement, or lack of, are just as impaired.

I have no problem with someone sitting smoking in their, or a friend's, home having an occasional smoke. I do have a problem if they then get in their car and drive.

04-23-06, 04:50 PM
gerry
Legalize Marijuana
Weed should be legal for those over 18. Heck, the law is generally only enforced anyway when a teen is using it, so the cops will still have plenty a kid to beat on, mace, etc. (although the stats say that about 50 percent of teens have tried pot before grade 12, only ther naive will believe that; it's pretty close to 85 percent. I say lock 'em all up.

Personally, I hate the stuff.

04-23-06, 05:12 PM
Sherasi
I tried Pot for the first time when I was 24. I tried only one more time several weeks later. I did nothing but giggle both times. Since it costs so much, I am not ever likely to repeat it. Besides a good comedic movie will provide the same amusement for a lot less regardless of legality.

04-23-06, 10:26 PM
Sarai

quote:
Originally posted by aminator2002:
For all your stories of burned out people, there are many more unheard stories of people who smoke an occasional joint and never suffer from the ill effects of long term substance abuse (PROBABLY ALL OF YOU AT ONE TIME.) (BUT I'LL TRY TO RESIST THE URGE TO USE THE TERM HYPOCRITES).



I smoked it in college, but I don't think that makes me a hypocrite. The fact is, I know how many dumb things I did while high, and I am also sure that part of the reason I didn't use it more often was because I knew it was illegal and didn't want to get caught. It's not hypocritical to believe that something one did in the past is not something other young people should do (I was over 18 at the time, but I still was very young, and I still think that 18, 19, 20, 21 are some of the most dangerous years when it comes to drug use and the possibility of taking a dangerous path in life). I'm saying this out of an "There but for the grace of the law I would have gone." I know that lots of people do it despite the law, but there are a lot of others who never became regular users of it because of the law, who might have tried it or used it more often if it were something you could do openly.

I do agree, though, that for personal use, the punishment should be light. Jail time for using marijuana is ridiculous. But it should still not be legal, if nothing else but to keep it from becoming a socially accepted drug.

04-24-06, 08:10 AM
aminator2002
I definitely agree that it is a crime to drive while impaired. Just like the legal substance alcohol.

And I think the most reasonable approach is the European method of non-enforcement. I think that it should be added that growing small quantities on your own property is not illegal because this would stop the drug trade aspect and reduce the criminalization of the plant that anyone can grow... why have people bringing it across the border when it can be grown by individuals for their own use.

04-24-06, 08:17 AM
frankvan
I've done my share of stupid things but pot-smoking isn't one of them. One reason is that it was probably unheard of when I was in my young and impressionable period. I did try some drinking to excess as a youngster but I never really liked the stuff, so it didn't continue when I matured a little more. But that's me! Everyone is different, and I sometimes suspect that many of us are tempted to do something for no good reason other than the fact that others are trying to stop us from doing it. Smoking is a case in point. Tobacco smoking, that is. Now that no one seems to care who smokes. only a few remaining die-hards continue to do it. Pot smoking may make some people act stupidly, but so does alcohol. I believe that it would be nice if we could prevent people, especially young ones, from behaving in ways that could prove harmful, but I doubt that we can accomplish that through legislation. Should we make everything that creative youngsters can obtain, combine, and use in harmful ways illegal? I doubt that's possible.

04-28-06, 08:45 PM
Sarai
Frank said "I believe that it would be nice if we could prevent people, especially young ones, from behaving in ways that could prove harmful, but I doubt that we can accomplish that through legislation. Should we make everything that creative youngsters can obtain, combine, and use in harmful ways illegal? I doubt that's possible."

Well, it looks like Mexico agrees with your point, making marijuana, cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, LSD, peyote all legal as long as its only for personal use - selling it will still be illegal. I think it's a disasterous idea, personally. You can read about it here.

04-29-06, 07:11 PM
frankvan
I'm not at all sure that the way the Mexicans have decided to go is the panacea to the drug problem, but I am reasonably sure that the so-called drug war hasn't been a smashing success in this country either. There is just something wrong with laws that dictate what an individual adult can ingest, smoke, or practice in the privacy of his own home, in my opinion. So long as one's behavior does not adversely impact others why should society be concerned?

I think that drug addiction is a medical problem and that the billions spent on notoriously imperfect law enforcement could better be applied to education and treatment. The only thing that criminalization does is raise the price of otherwise inexpensive commodities to the extent that they are only affordable through criminal activities of every description. We might have learned something from our attempt at prohibition and the growth of criminal activities that resulted.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,