We are having alot of problems here in the Cincinnati with the homeless people, the city is running them out from under the bridges, and away from the river banks, where they have been staying. I really am getting worried about this, and wonder what can be done for them. They have nowhere else to go. Why isn't there a program to take these people in and help them out. I know alot of them are mental patients, that have been kicked out of the mental hospitals, so I imagine they won't look for help or don't know how. It really is a sad situation, just to see them walk down the steets with all their belongings in a bag, clothes that are old, boots that are not laced, hats and overcoats, its just plain sad! *************************************************** *************************************************** 07-19-03, 10:03 PM Kelleygirl Soaringhorse, I am glad that a local law firm has come to their defense on the grounds that anyone can live anywhere they want to. But between this and making the panhandlers get I.D. cards, I don't know what Cincinnati council is trying to do. They are usually pretty ineffective so I hope they keep their same batting record here.
07-19-03, 10:20 PM puppyblues Soaringhorse, I've seen ONE homeless person in my entire life, and I thought I was going to cry. I wanted my mother to pull over and give him a home or something! We were in Topeka and I don't go to big cities very often. It made me so sad though. I found some pretty interesting websites about the homeless in Cincinnati and some other sites that you can use to maybe help in some way.
This next link is a site that you can roam around on and find a lot of different things that you can do to help people in your area and learn about the things that are being done at this moment to help the problem. This may be something you could get your son involed in. Not only will he be helping others, it will give him a sense of accomplishment to help others. Teenagers with great compassion will go far in life.
This last link is for the homeless kids in your area. Click on the pictures under the apple. I know you didn't ask for these, but maybe you can help someone. If you help one person, that person helps someone...the cycle could keep going. You never know, one act of kindness could help many, many families. Make sure your son gets involved.
07-19-03, 11:59 PM Kelleygirl Pup, thanks for your concern and the great websites that you provided. A big part of the problem is the politics in Cincy. Years ago the good people of Cincy wanted to close a homeless shelter cuz it was physically located too close to Music Hall--where a lot of times--the Right people attended. They didn't want to look at "those people" when throwing one of their gala events. So the mayor, who had a few bucks, said "Okay, we'll shut down the homeless shelter and I'll buy season passes for all of the homeless people so that they can sleep next to you while you attend a function." Needless to say, the homeless shelter remained open. BTW, that mayor was Jerry Springer. Believe it or not, he did a lot of good things while he was here.
07-20-03, 07:50 AM Jelp01 In the Spokane area, an hour from where I live, there has recently been an idea kicked around about setting up some sort of tent city for the area's homeless, and getting them off the streets and out from under Interstate 90.
For a city that seems stuck in the 1890's, I think that's a progressive idea for them.
The homeless shelters they have do a good job. The major one is a good organization. However, many of the people who could avail themselves of their services can't (or don't), as one of the rules about being taken in is the person has to be sober, or be willing to go to the local detox center first. Sadly, some of the potential clients of the shelter are so gone on alcohol that they are unable to even go through detox in order to be taken in at the shelter.
When I still lived in Spokane, my roommate and I took in a homeless man. It was to be for a couple of weeks, but a couple of weeks turned into about nine months. And it was quite an eye-opening experience. This man was a member of our church and had been thrown out by his wife (which can happen when you are 60 years old and your wife is 17!). When he came to stay with us, his entire worldly possessions were small enough to fit into a paper sack. That made both my roommate and I wonder why we had so much more than him and were griping about what we didn't have. Gulp! Red Face
He was a Korean War vet, and was living on disability and food stamps While with us, he had a stable address long enough for him to find work, no easy feat for a disabled 60 year old who, while he was with us, was also diagnosed with diabetes. And he had some sort of large settlement due from the government. When that came, between that amount and what he had saved from his job, he was able to find a place of his own.
I am not now nor ever will be in danger of sainthood, but I'm glad my roommate and I were able to look at this man as someone in need of a helping hand till he was able to stand on his own two feet again, instead of a worthless scum, like almost everyone else in our church did. Mad MadMad As a result of treatment like that and as a result of some of the less than kind ways I've been treated in the past, I've always tried to go out of my way to treat with kindness those who need it the most.
[This message was edited by Jelp01 on 07-20-03 at 08:16 AM.]
[This message was edited by Jelp01 on 07-20-03 at 08:20 AM.]
07-20-03, 09:07 AM soaringhorse Puppy, on that first link it showed some of the temp agencies that are trying to find them jobs. I read one spot in particular that I kind of wonder about:
Dave, a dispatcher at Minute Men, admitted that sometimes people are asked to wait for possible jobs. "We often do not have enough jobs for all people." "In order to have a chance, you have to be present...We open at 4 a.m," Dave commented.
There were specific complaints about "Ron," branch manager at Minute Men, and his disrespectful, belittling and rude behaviors toward the temp workers. According to one participant, "You are called by what you are wearing, not your name, even though he knows your name."
One survey participant explained that he was assigned to work at a place which required him to carry 80 pounds of salt although he had a crippled hand. After requesting to be placed elsewhere; doing work he was capable of performing, he stated that "Ron" told him that he would not be sent out on any more jobs. This participant expressed his willingness and ability to do other available jobs, but these were denied to him.
I bring this up because one day at work, I had been approached by three homeless guys bumming for cigarettes, around 11 a.m. on my break. They were complaining they had gone to look for their jobs early in the morning and the man had previously told them there was work, to report in tomorrow, when they did the guy said no there's no work. They were very upset, and one guy didn't even speak English, he spoke Spanish. See the dilemna? There has to be some program to take the time to match these people up, get them on their feet again. And these temp agencies are a joke, I know, I done them, even I was belittled in a low paying job at the hospitals working in outpatient billing. There's no need for disrespect, and the pay is a joke! Even though it's better than nothing, if they work, the government deducts their benefits, but what about housing?
Puppy, you are so right that we need to get involved, the thing that really scares me is if you take people in you don't really know who they are. They hold this sign up "Will work for food", and do you think anyone will actually help, Nooooo. They are too afraid what kind of person this is, are they a drunk? Do they have mental problems? That's why I think some kind of agency should get these people off of the streets, even if they have to comb the streets, to look for people with signs. These are people that are starving and are asking for help.
[This message was edited by soaringhorse on 07-20-03 at 09:15 AM.]
07-20-03, 09:37 PM honilov Jelp, that was such a nice thing to do for a homeless man. I, too, always try to help people that are in need. It's sad that America is so rich, and are always sending money all over the world, but can't have homeless shelters for the less-fortunate. To the rich and powerful people, the homeless are just like animals to them. They wouldn't care if they lived or died, so building homeless shelters are the last thing on their mind. But one day......
07-20-03, 09:41 PM Kelleygirl Honilov,
What did you think of the Jerry Springer connection?
07-21-03, 12:45 AM honilov Kellygirl, I think that was nice of Jerry to handle it in such a way, but we need a lot more people to care, in order to get things done.
07-21-03, 06:53 AM Jelp01 Honilov, as I said, I'd never be mistaken for a saint, but taking in this man was the least my roommate and I could do.
And just think, I mostly vote Republican!!!See, some of us more conservative types ARE compassionate sometimes!! Big Grin
07-21-03, 08:48 AM samantha I never thought too much of homeless people before till I went to work at the hospital I used to work at and they have alot around there. They come in complaining of any illness to get admited to have a warm bed and a good meal. Its really sad. I live out in the country and we never seen any around here at all so it was really an eye opener for me to see this. Jelp that is so nice of you to help like you do ..we need more people like you in our world.
07-21-03, 08:24 PM honilov Jelp, we need more Republicans like you. Big Grin
Most Republicans believe in helping people...the problem is, they believe in helping rich people get richer. Big Grin Big Grin
Hey, you are my kind of Republican, and I know that all Democrats are not saints either. Wink
07-21-03, 09:08 PM puppyblues Never, EVER would have pegged you for a Rebublican, Jelp. Glad to know there are ones like you SmileSmileSmile
(discloser: NO hate mail please!!!) Big Grin
07-22-03, 01:26 AM SeattleRon they have no money for the homeless people because we are too busy saving the whales and animals. Whales have homes, thats the sea, animals have homes, it's called the woods. I see homeless people each and everyday, they run rampant in Seattle. It disgusts me how people feel the money should go to anything other than furthering research to cure diseases, and helping the less fortunate. It sickens me to the point to where I wanna puke when I see war vets out there homeless. They defend the country and the government does nothing to help them.
I was apalled the other day watching the news and what do I see? Some ridiculous forzen dead dolphin getting a catscan to figure out if it died from some kind of sonar experiment. They are trying to blame the Navy for killing dolphins with Sonar or something. PLease, so a dolphin died who cares. It's a fish for god sakes. How come nobody is trying to save the armadillos or other ugly animals. What we only want to save the cute cuddly ones??? Same as homeless people. Give me a break.
07-22-03, 09:35 AM Elexina Actually, dolphins are not fish, Denis Leary.
They don't have homes when people chop down the trees and put waste in the ocean. That's why their endangered. They got their problems just by living. Homeless people got their's because of something they did in their life. Don't forget about shelters and stuff, there are plenty of people willing to help. It's just there's only so much you can do for someone who can't or won't work.
07-22-03, 05:54 PM mattlynda i will NOT get started in the animals vs human debate, as nasty things coming from my side will get said.
back on topic, our town is actually doing pretty amazing trying to help out the homeless. we have a small town, and no one is truly 'homelss' (living on the streets) but we have plenty of people over 18 who still live at their parents, or in the womens shelter, or on friends' couches. they too are homeless, they just are lucky enough to have a roof.
we have a community fund set up, and when it reaches a big enough limit, the old post office is being turned into low income housing. the minimum in rent each month will be $50. we have one guy who digs through all the trash bins in town and grabs the empty pop cans he finds, and returns them. he maked about $200 a month on them. he is first in line for one of these places. the criterea to get on the list is, you have to make under $870 a month, and currently not have a seperate bedroom of your own at the place you are staying. this will allow a lot of people on disability the chance to get their own place, as anyone receiving aish (canadian disability) recieves, at maxamum, $850 a month. this is a great plan, and more cities should run programs like this. all the money is coming from donations, and welfare services will be helping out once it is built, making up the difference in what the person can afford and what the rent is. (im not exactly sure, but i think they are being rented out for around $400 a month. you pay what you can, the government makes up the rest).
07-22-03, 07:56 PM honilov Nice post, Ron.
Jusork, You say homeless people got their problems because of something they did in life...well, I'd like to know what they did.
Just like they are cutting down the animal trees, they are taking people' jobs away. Just like they are putting waste in the ocean, they are raising the cost of living to a point where working people are homeless.
By the way, all the animals that people are eating, are 'animals' too, so why worry about saving some, and killing others. One animal life is no different from another. So it's okay to kill a hog, cow, chicken, etc, but we have to spend money to give a dolphin a CT scan.
Get real, man.
07-23-03, 10:46 AM jusork Well I guess not always because of something they did but, for example, going to war was a choice in your life. Surviving is a part of a creatures' life but if they're becoming extinct, it isn't really a part of their life. Nobody is really "taking" their jobs, but if a company is loosing money and they have to fire people then they have to try to find a new job, take out a loan, spend less. Hogs, cows, chickens, etc. aren't becoming extinct though, they are bred. And I don't think dolphins in general are endangered so I don't know if that CT scan is really that important.
07-23-03, 06:34 PM soaringhorse Well, now that we're discussing animals too...have you seen that show on TV called Animal Rescue? I mean they literally go in these apartments, houses where the animals are being abused, neglected, this takes place in New York City, now if they can do that (which I'm sure costs pretty much money) why not help the humans? I mean, I love pets, they are great, but the priority is screwed up, which is more important?
07-24-03, 04:39 PM samantha The homeless people..... Which is more important soaringhorse..depends on the person! Wink
07-26-03, 04:53 AM Wildflower63 The only homeless people I have a lot of sympathy for are the mentally ill that cannot cope. The rest of these people, I feel they bring their problems on themselves. The majority are addicts that pay for drugs instead of rent.
There are the mentally ill that are not competent for themselves. The mental hospitals drugged these people and turned them loose. Is that fair to someone that is as competent as a five year old for their action? I don't think it is.
Adults that will work for McDonald's qualify for food stamps, HUD housing, and other programs aimed at getting people skilled for the labor force. I fail to see why people that are not seriously mentally ill to be living under a bridge. Even for them, there are shelters they could go to for help. They don't choose to. They choose to play victim of society and live under a bridge.
If you choose an addiction of that next high at the expense of the roof over your head, I call that personal choice. If you choose to go to a shelter that would help those who want it, that is personal choice.
The problem isn't poverty. The problem is people making poor choices for themselves with exception to the mentally ill. I find it disgusting when an addict hits me up for money looking for handouts when you know good and well they aren't buying food with the money. They are just too sober and think it sucks. They think priority is being high off of something and we are all supposed to see them as poverty victims. They have a big problem with things like a job, personal responsibility, and sobriety the rest of us have to put up with. They don't.
I think these people are disgusting and should be removed by police. It is scary for ordinary people to even go to the city when you keep getting hit up for money by these bums. It feels threatening. You have no idea what you are dealing with, someone mentally ill or a crack head that have nothing to lose an may kill you for your purse. They souldn't be allowed to do this. It is intimidation of people just walking down the street.
You have to consider there are already shelters for the homeless that will help them if they wanted it. They don't. There are plenty of government welfare programs to help them. They don't bother with a job or existing welfare programs. That paperwork and showing up for appointments to the government offices must be a real chore. I can't see how they could complain about jail even. At least they have a roof over their head and food on the table. Oh, they aren't high.
I strongly support the city's decision to get them out of there.
07-26-03, 12:59 PM mattlynda quick story about a homeless man.
he is something of a local celebrity in central alberta. every year, around october, he would commit some crime that would result in a few thousand dollars fine. of course, he cant pay it, so he gets thrown in jail. he usually got out around march or April, after serving the time. every year he did this, for 4 years. guess what he did while in jail? got his GED, and one year of a management program. he is now senior manager of a grocery store (Safeway i think), making close to $40k a year, and laughing it up at how he used the jail system to make a better life for himself. he hasn't gotten so much as a parking ticket since he got out for the last time. Big Grin
07-26-03, 01:02 PM puppyblues So Wildflower, you think society should just throw these people away? You think they are just going to 'go somewhere' and you won't have to worry about them anymore? Out of site, out of mind, right? That's kind of sad. I don't see any homeless people where I live, but I think about them all the time.
A lot of homeless people are just the way you describe them. However, a lot are families with kids that have fallen through the cracks of our ever so loving government. They don't show up to appointments because they have to take six different busses to get there, miss work (therefore get fired), get their kids to school...etc. LOTS of them work and they are still homeless. They aren't all drug addicts, yet they are still homeless. That's pretty sad, don't you think? Try and put yourself in their shoes. You have two kids. What if you lost your house? You are forever saying you have no where to go...so what would happen to you and your kids then? What would you do? If I were you, I'd hate to run into to someone with your attitude about the whole situation then.
Not all homeless people are out of work, drug addict bums. Living where you do, you should know that.
07-26-03, 01:15 PM Sherasi Sagus and I almost ended up homeless with Dustin in our care. After my mom sold her house, we had no where to go. I was a nursing student, and Sagus was earning about $1000 a month. There was a HUGE waiting list in the local Section 8 housing, but because we had Dustin they expidited us into the housing unit.
Of course, I finished nursing school and am now working as an RN and Sagus is going to school. I have very marketable skills now...... but it wasn't always that way.
07-26-03, 02:19 PM clarebear Kellygirl
I remember Jerry Springer did a LOT for the homeless. (and still does today) His TV show wasn't always the way it is today. He had many shows on the homeless. He spent 2 weeks on the streets himself. His whole show for two weeks was his day to day living in squat houses. He ate what they ate and slept where they slept. He was helping a young boy who was homeless and had AIDS. ( I can't remember the boys name) I don't have an opinion of his show because I do not watch it. I do know that he is still involved in helping those less fortunate than him.
07-26-03, 02:41 PM clarebear Wildflower
You are lucky that you are not in that position yourself. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are better than someone less fortunate than you because you aren't. Sometimes it is not a matter of choice. It is a matter of circumstance. Your post was heartless.
07-26-03, 09:49 PM jusork I think we're having a hard time understanding where each other are comming from. Clare, Pup, and Wild, you're all generalizing your perspective. There are all different kinds of homeless people. Someone sees homeless people on the street, they wonder why they aren't getting a job, get mad at them for what seems like they aren't trying(hey who knows if they are or not), but it doesn't make someone not nice to think about homeless people like they aren't trying(I'm pretty sure Wild's just refering to the homeless people who don't try). I'm thinking Wild believes in working as hard as you can, and if you loose your job, you should be able to fix it. Maybe she thinks people should deal with their own consequences. Are shelters, food stamps, and welfare enough? Just how much should the government give free to people? What do you expect a city to do? Should poor people be allowed to sleep anywhere? There's nothing wrong with helping less fortunate but it's also a street and sometimes the system can't just be bent to be nice(much like life). As for why people don't try, who knows? Maybe they're tired of trying or have psychological problems. Could we be nicer or are we giving what we can?
Just a litte tip for everybody, never put your opinions in the form of a rant, they will usually be biased, skewed, and exaggerated. Notice how I said pretty much the exact same thing Wild said, the only difference is that she was ranting and everybody jumped on her.
07-26-03, 11:16 PM Wildflower63 Actually, I was in that exact position of being homeless. Within two weeks, I got evicted from my apartment and lost my job. I have no superiority complex at all. I haven't burt out every family member and friend with repeated stupid mistakes. I got help and it wasn't from government programs. I have helped people, my husband specifically. He will also help me if I need it. He did.
What bugs me is that irresponsibility is pitied and rewarded. The responsible person that makes an effort to save some money for a rainy day and does without gets to bail out everyone else. I have little to no compassion for addicts on the street intimidating people.
I am extremely willing to help anyone who is also willing to help themselves. Some people aren't and make excuses and manipulate people. That, I have no respect for. Mentally incompetent people should never be let loose. They cannot care for themselves. She should be housed and I do not mind tax dollars paying to help them or anyone who needs it. I want to see people try.
07-26-03, 11:35 PM Sherasi Actually, there is a huge problem with cognitively challenged individuals ending up homeless or in jail. Whole prison wards are being made specifically for those mentally ill or challenged individuals... people who would never have been homeless or in prison if they had remained in facilities that can assist them to manage (as they cannot on their own).
07-27-03, 08:07 AM samantha Wildflower if the police do get the homeless out of there, where are they going to place them? I don't have the answer here either but, i sure don't know what the police are going to do with them. Put them in jail? Charge them for being what Homeless? I believe the jails are over crowded now they probably don't have room for more. And if they make them leave that area won't they just find another one? I wish there was some answers for them. It must be bad in the big citys.. Frown
By the way if to me someone is mentally incompetent how can THEY CHOSE anything for theirself? Maybe they need others to make those choices for them.
07-27-03, 01:01 PM clarebear The reason I responded the way I did was based on Wildflower's blanket statement.
quote: The only homeless people I have a lot of sympathy for are the mentally ill that cannot cope. The rest of these people, I feel they bring their problems on themselves.
I think every situation is different. Yes, there are a lot of drug addicts that are homeless. I have more than once had my car rushed by some lunatic asking for drugs or money. It was quite apparent they were trying to get drugs. I don't have any compassion for people on the street who intimidate and try to assault you. I do think there truly are people who just are down on their luck. It is the homeless kids that wrench at my heart. Many mothers left abusive relationships and have nowhere else to go. Some people did save for a rainy day but they got laid off from their job. Their savings is gone. Most people couldn't make it 6 months without working. It is HARD to save that kind of money. Many people lost everything they had in the stock market. A lot of people barely made it before they were homeless. Some people got too sick and couldn't work. Some people just have too much pride to keep begging for handouts. They don't know where to go or how to even start helping themselves. Some women end up prostituting themselves to buy food and diapers for their kids. It isn't easy to get assistance if you don't have an address. I am from Detroit. I see it everyday. Sometimes shelters just don't have the room. A homeless shelter isn't a residence, it is a bandaid. The Salvation Army does what they can to help. Private people do what they can to help. We have soup kitchens downtown and free clothes vouchers at thrift stores. It is hard to get help with no car and nobody willing to help you. It is the children that really get to me. The eyes of a hungry child is an image I will never forget. That is why I'm so defensive. It is just sad and it isn't their fault. Frown
07-27-03, 01:35 PM Wildflower63 I would define mentally incompetent as Sher did. I would also include in that group addicts. No one under the influence of mind altering drugs, withdrawal, to more drug seeking is mentally competent either.
The current problems with the homeless in Cincinnati are bad enough that a city is being financially starved because people do not feel safe anymore because of this small minority of people intimidating by panhandling, theft, and fearing what these people that obviously have big problems may do to them. They had to make a law that they couldn't come with in so many feet at a Jeanie machine. People were getting harassed by people wanting money or it was stolen out of their hands.
Because of the homeless problem, jobs in the city are lost, business cannot remain open because people do not wish to shop or work in the city anymore. Everything is going to the suburbs. Cincinnati is financially struggling because of the lack of safety. That is why I am in favor of getting these people out from under the bridge. They are often participating in theft, intimidation, and causing financial destruction of the city as a whole. You don't see that problem in the news. They are not trowing people out from under bridges because they think it is fun. There is very sound reasoning for it.
It appears to me that these people are not mentally sound for drugs, mental illness, or other reasons or they would not find residing under a bridge acceptable when there are shelters and help available to them, but do not utilize it. They all need psychiatric help given that they are unable to cope with society.
Killing yourself is illegal. People laugh at that one, but it isn't funny. It allows police intervention to get an individual the help they need. The structure of help for homeless isn't completely effective. There should be some type of law to protect these people from themselves. Homeless people should never be allowed to keep children. They should go into foster care until the parents are able to provide a roof over their head and food. This is child abuse, in my opinion.
I think with a law in place, police could force people who are unable to cope into group housing to get specific help they need for their problems. Better social programs need to be started in order to help solve this problem. It hurts all of us.
07-27-03, 01:45 PM puppyblues "There should be some type of law to protect these people from themselves. Homeless people should never be allowed to keep children. They should go into foster care until the parents are able to provide a roof over their head and food. This is child abuse, in my opinion."
Okay, please tell me you are kidding??? OMG I really can't believe YOU would think that! I have so many things I want to say right now, but personal attacts are forbidden on this site, so I'll refrain.
Let's say you were kicked out of your house with your kids, WF. You have no where to go (you've said that many times). You think that YOUR kids (since you think you are such a good mother to them) should be taken from you and put into the system? You're afraid to put your kids into the system by telling on them for doing drugs, but you'll put them into the system if you got kicked out of your house? HA! I doubt it. You are putting every homeless person in one catagory, and THAT is why society looks at them like they do, because of people like you that have absolutely no compassion what so ever!
07-27-03, 02:27 PM Wildflower63 Yes, I am very serious. I am an adult. I do not want my kids to be living outside even if I have to. Absolutely, I would rather someone give them a home until I could get a place of my own. It isn't a permanent thing. It is just until parents can provide for their children so they don't have to live outside is all.
I also feel help for homeless is inadequate. There are government social programs created all the time. I think that there has to be a better way than what exist today for these people.
07-27-03, 02:31 PM Wildflower63 Yes Puppy, I do have somewhere to go. I still own half of this house whether my husband likes it or not. I also have family and friends that would help me. So, I am not homeless living outside. I'm living in a home that is jointly owned by my husband and myself in a very nice neighborhood. My kids are fine. I might not be, but they are.
07-27-03, 03:14 PM Wildflower63 The topic is homless people. The point is to have a discussion on this matter only. I would greatly appreciate people not bringing my personal life into subject matter where it has nothing to add to the subject. If I wish to discuss anything personal, I will post it myself. I do not appreciate, and don't think others as well, wish to have something from a past post brought into completely different subject matter. You can agree, disagree, or come up with ideas on the subject. But, stick to the subject and please refrain from bringing anyone's post about their personal life out of subjects like this where it obviously does not belong.
Puppy: "Let's say you were kicked out of your house with your kids, WF. You have no where to go (you've said that many times). You think that YOUR kids (since you think you are such a good mother to them) should be taken from you and put into the system? You're afraid to put your kids into the system by telling on them for doing drugs, but you'll put them into the system if you got kicked out of your house? HA! I doubt it."
I thought you were going to refrain from personal attacks? Your opinion is not fact. This most certainly is a personal attack of my character.
07-27-03, 05:42 PM Kelleygirl IMO, the thing that is killing downtown Cincinnati is not the homeless or the panhandlers; it's the corporate panhandlers. It started with the Bengals and the the Reds--"if we don't get new stadiums, we're gone." So Cincinnati built the stadiums, at taxpayer costs. Then Saks,Krogers,Convergys, and now Cincinnati Bell all said " Give us millions of dollars or we'll leave downtown." And the city council keeps taking this corporate blackmail and feeding it with said millions. I work downtown and I've never felt threaten by the homeless or the panhandlers on the street---THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM! It's them who already have it, not them who don't have it at all.
07-27-03, 06:05 PM puppyblues It's not a personal attack on your character. You've said these things yourself, all over this site. I'm just repeating what you've said. Take it however you want too.
07-27-03, 07:41 PM Wildflower63 The homeless people..... I'm not even going to dignify that defence with a response. Your interpretations are incorrect and should not be placed on a topic that has nothing to do with the subject matter.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed, 03-13-07 05:42 PM
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 1031 | Location: Greater Cincinnati Area | Registered: 06-03-02
Okay, I have been silent as long as possible here. It is my greatest desire not to interfere with the activity of members of this site. However as often happens in real life, in cyberspace as well, two people so diametrically opposed cannot co-exist peacefully.
The sites' Administration has been extremely understanding of this and I have watched quietly as my staff of well trained and compassionate individuals have done everything possible to squelch this bitterness without offending anyone.
Now innocent bystanders, and those not so innocent are being dragged into it. This must stop.
I get emails about this feud all the time. I read most of the links that members supply. I see that we are dancing all over the edge of "I never said it was YOU I was talking about"
Most of the gravel in my driveway is too smart to believe that. I never did. And since I am ultimately liable for what you do to eachother here, have to sit up and play judge on this stuff.
I don't care who started it or who has a friend that is a good lawyer or any of that stuff, so don't bother emailing me about it. I have been threatened by the best of them and I didn't let that stop me.
Why don't you guys hang out in different forums? AnswerPool.com is a great big website. I see new names every day.
I think the real problem is that your topic matter has become stale and you are beating the same old arguments to death. These topics have become thinly veiled platforms for the ensuing arguments. You are (unintentionally, I am sure) trashing our beautiful site.
I truly wish we all could get along, but reality is that some of us will never agree with others of us. It is a fact of life. But we can make AnswerPool.com more pleasant. Hint hint
Posts: 3856 | Location: Somewhere, out there... | Registered: 05-31-02
I have no problem with that. It is not my wish or intention to get into cat fights. I agree, it is way too much. I use this site for leisure, not a boxing match. ********** 07-27-03, 10:27 PM Kelleygirl [QUOTE]Originally posted by K.K.
I think the real problem is that your topic matter has become stale and you are beating the same old arguments to death. These topics have become thinly veiled platforms for the ensuing arguments. You are (unintentionally, I am sure) trashing our beautiful site.
K.K. I sure hear what you're saying--there was some internal strife happening but IMHO I do think that the topic of this thread is very important to discuss and that the thread inself was far from being stale. Maybe I feel this way cuz it's directly concerning my turf, and it's an ongoing debate here everyday. It is most interesting to me to here other opinions from different regions and the different personalities here at AP.
[This message was edited by Kelleygirl on 07-27-03 at 10:52 PM.]
07-28-03, 11:08 AM NCcichlid Signs, signs, everywhere signs
As a Conversative Christian I have a deep compassion for the homeless. Let me take a little bandwidth and relate several of the past experiences that come to mind.
Hungry, will work for food Just outside a McDonalds I see the sign. McD is having a two for a dollar special so I buy an extra burger, and detour to give it the 'starving'. What does he do but take the food, place it behind the milk crate he is using to sit on and continue to solicate from the stopped traffic.
Will do any work, hungry, homeless, veteran I pull up at the light, read the sign, and tell the sign holder that I've got some work for you. His reply was "I've got a bad knee and can't do any work" My reply was "I never told you what kind of work I wanted you to do." He showed me his middle finger and I went on about my business.
I had noticed the same man and woman occupying the same corner for several days. I stopped and offered them my home. Food, laundry, clean sheets, work for the man, and the woman could clean while we were working. His reply was there are four of us, we have a place to stay, we have food, we work as a team, pool our cash donations, and pay our bills. Thanks anyway.
I'm still compasionate toward the 'homeless' My house is open to those in need. To those that are lazy, may I suggest a new sign.... I'm a lazy bum. I am not a veteran and will not work for food. I will take your cash and say Thank-You.
07-28-03, 03:16 PM soaringhorse Well, from what I hear from my mate, who travels over by them everyday going to work, is they have made shelter with plywood, and have couches just sitting out by the guard rails right under the viaducts, in the emergency lanes. I even read that a porto potty was donated by a company that owned them, which is very kind, now if other big wigs would step in.
07-28-03, 05:22 PM Wildflower63 Yes, this would help if there were contributions. But, there are zoning laws and the property would have to be purchased or donated. If everyone would pitch in a little it would help the immediate housing situation. But, I wonder how much that would differ from shelters these people are not utilizing by choice.
07-28-03, 08:42 PM clarebear I guess it really is hard to know who needs help and who doesn't. Wildflower sees drug addicts wanting cash for the next fix. NC tries to help by offering work but they don't want it, they just want the money. They just passed a law in Michigan that people on welfare have to do community service each month. Maybe the homeless could occupy some of these abandoned houses that are just boarded up? They could do community service too. That would at least give them a residence so they could start looking for work. I know there are homeless that are not drug addicts and that would gladly work for their way.
P.S. Nice to see you *sparkle* Smile
07-29-03, 08:56 AM Wildflower63 I agree that there are better ways of handling this situation. I don't think they are allowed to stay in unfit housing by the government because of potential dangers. I think something along the line of a half way house for them to have their own rooms and supervision would be a good solution. They could get help and guidance that way.
They may need help with existing government programs that would help them with sobriety, mental illness, or just people who are unaware and don't know what steps to take. They could make themselves useful as metioned above until they can get on their feet. These people need help and supervision to lead them to a better way than living under a bridge.
07-29-03, 10:36 AM clarebear I was thinking more in terms of fixing up the houses and then living in them. (hud houses)
07-29-03, 04:02 PM DvdGStwrt Mentally ill, I believe it was in the 70's when the mental hospitals lost their funding thus the borderline mentally ill were released.
It happens.
Homelessness and Shelters do not mix well. The need to be independent and the 'fear' of the shelter is a very real issue that social workers can not come up with any easy answers.
Most often the sheer number of homeless to beds are way out of proportion. Those donations of time and money that people could give are farther and fewer between than one thinks.
The Not In My Back Yard affect also has a big roll to play. People are always saying, We need to do something, when the something means building a shelter, halfway house, recovery center in their neighborhood they scream just as loudly, "Not in My back Yard!"
Many homeless people actually pick their life style. Talk to them, find out how they feel about it - they want to be homeless, are content with that situation. I do not know why, they just are. We may see it as insanity - but then having the debt, stress of being homeful may be just as insane.
I think cities make a big mistake when running the homeless out on a rail.
Let them have the under passes, let them have their tent cities. Let them. It is a 'free country' right? Yeah right, if you have the money to buy that freedom.
Sadly what many people tend to forget is that it only takes one - One person to hand over an old coat, one person to give an hour of their time, one person to hand over a fiver, one person to donate old blankets, one person to serve soup, one person to reach out and share the milk of human kindness.
If a lot more ones did this, there would be a lot less homeless on the streets, there would be a lot less homeless wearing rags.
The power of one voice is strong, the power of one act is stronger. Those who Scream "Not in my back yard, what will it do to the worth of my house?" Have failed to take into account that their house is something more than what a lot of people have.
I am not patting myself on the back here, but I give of my time, of my money, of my closet, of my pantry all the time - No questions asked, no promises to not drink or not use it to buy drugs. I give - not because I have too, not because I think I will win kudo points to enter into heaven, only because I feel that it is right.
Only by the grace of God, there go I - People tend to forget that our lives, our security is so frail, too susceptible to fate and job markets and economies. Too many people fail to see that if they are too blind to see the needs of others, then when they are needful how can they expect anyone to see their need?
The problem is not city councils, the problem is citizens, those who sit in their comfortable chairs under their water tight roofs in their heated and cooled offices and homes thinking that it's somebody else's problem.
It isn't.
David
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