I'll be really surprised if anyone can guess where it is, too. I wouldn't even be able to tell it's an island. I'll propose somewhere in the Atlantic though. Chosen for absolutely no reason.
Sounds like a really interesting trip though. To be able to travel to the exact little place where your ancestors lived. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 10-18-04, 01:44 AM Ritzmar I think I know!
10-18-04, 03:04 AM Jenny Roberts Shetland Isles, Orkneys?
10-18-04, 04:16 AM Ritzmar Just too rugged for Orkney, Jenny, and probably too rugged even for Shetland. I have been to both...I suspect somewhere closer to home... Big Grin
10-18-04, 12:09 PM Mike121 One of the Faroe Islands?
10-18-04, 02:09 PM babthrower Jenny is closest, with Shetlands. Jusork's right with Atlantic. Here are some more photos:
10-19-04, 05:12 PM doñadiana Bab: What a wonderful adventure. Thank you for sharing it with us. I am a George MacDonald fan and seeing these pictures helped me to actually place myself inside the stories he writes. In the novel I read, he uses the MacDonald/Campbell feud to set the stage for his story.
DD
10-19-04, 05:40 PM Sarai Wow, thanks for sharing, Bab!
10-19-04, 08:51 PM babthrower A tip of the hat to Mike! Right on Smile .
DD, that massacre was not the only time the entire population of Eigg was wiped out. Those were the days of anarchy and clan feuds that could last for generations. After the MacDonalds were wiped out, the island was repopulated by the Clanranald MacDonalds and their allies. My people belonged to a sept of MacLean of Lochbuie. My people left Eigg before the clearance, which happened in about 1850, rather later than most of the highlands. They left for religious freedom; the highlands had converted to Presbyterianism and my people wanted to remain Roman Catholic. Also the English were suppressing Gaelic and the cultural traditions in an effort to break Highland solidarity. (The kilts were dyed dark brown to conceal the pattern, and sewn into trousers, for example. To be found wearing one's tartan was to invite very serious trouble. Death, for example.)
The English had begun to raid the emigrant ships on the high seas in order to impress able-bodied men into the English navy. Of course for emigrants to land in the new world without their able-bodied men was a death sentence. So they had to avoid the raiders on the high seas as well!
There are only 62 permanent residents on Eigg now. The residents own the island cooperatively. They are trying, successfully I think, to restore it. There are over 60 species of breeding birds, and almost two hundred species of birds which spend some time there and have been identified by birdwatchers. The air is wonderfully clean and fresh. But the sheep and cattle poop! The natives all wear wellies (knee-high rubber boots). I was really glad I brought tough ankle-high rubber shoes with deeply ribbed soles suitable for beach walking and moderate climbing and hiking. They were easy to clean. Oh, well, the stuff helps keep the land fertile.
10-20-04, 04:44 AM tsaeb I was thinking Scotland all along. I was also thinking Sean Connery all along.
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Posts: 6461 | Location: Grayson, Georgia, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Don't blame you a bit, Tsaeb, I used to have Sean Connery on my mind a lot too. Not so much in recent years, though. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 10-20-04, 03:21 PM Mike121 Hey! Don't I win an Isle of Eigg t-shirt or ballcap or something? Wink
I'm envious of your trip, Bab. I would love to visit that part of the world.
10-21-04, 10:36 AM babthrower Ain't no such, Mike. In fact when I told an islander about my cliffhanger, he said they had discussed putting signs along the path, but not got around to it yet. Also warnings about the unstable rocks, that the cliffs are unsafe to climb. "No, no!" I said, bacause one of the island's charms is that it is completely free of touristy, Disneylandish features. There is only one road, two meters wide, that runs from north to south. In a building near the pier is a gift shop and the island's only drygoods store -- a tiny shop -- and a tea-and-sandwich shop where you can also buy an alcoholic drink if you like, and where locals sometimes bring accordions, mouth organs, bagpipes, small drums, and so forth, and have an impromptu music festival. So it's a great place for lots of walking -- good footwear and rain gear required -- and everyone greets you as you pass by. If the lack of signage means that the odd tourist is lost, well, the world has a generous supply of us, so....
If my attitude seems a bit callous, consider what sort of signage would be required to prevent us idiotic tourists from endangering ourselves. "Do not climb the cliffs" in every language at 10-foot intervals? (I read recently that a litigation-wary manufacturer decided it was necessary to emboss a warning on their product, a cardboard sunshield for a car, "Do not drive with sunshield in place.")
Besides, such warnings completely defeat the purpose of natural selection.
10-22-04, 11:18 AM Mike121
quote:Originally posted by babthrower: Besides, such warnings completely defeat the purpose of natural selection.
How true!
I was being silly, Bab. I got the impression from the info I found on Eigg that this is not a place for tourists who want the usual cushy, touristy accommodations and commercial trappings – which makes it all the more alluring to me.
I really enjoyed reading your “excellent adventure”. When I came to the part where you found yourself in quite a predicament I chuckled to myself, “Well, prayer is definitely out of the question.” Seriously, I was glad to read that you made it out of that scrape.
10-22-04, 10:52 PM babthrower Mike says, "...I got the impression from the info I found on Eigg that this is not a place for tourists who want the usual cushy, touristy accommodations and commercial trappings..."
You got the right impression. If you want to go somewhere, you walk. I totally loved it. I spent an equal time in Ireland (Rita has one ancestor from there, also one of my penpals was to meet us in Dublin). So why do I have over 200 photos from the trip to Eigg, and only about ten from Ireland? Ireland is pretty as can be. But it's touristy. Everything's done for you. You might as well buy postcards -- which I did -- as take photos.
We reserved seats to a play at the Abbey Theatre, Dublin, I do not like thee, Doctor Fell, and it was amusing. But you know what I wanted? Wit. Irony. I didn't get it. Shaw is dead. Behan is dead. Ah, well. I discovered that Guinness is very, very fine indeed.
10-22-04, 11:43 PM FredPuli Babs you should have looked for the craic, not the Abbey Theatre. The Abbey is poor theatre nowadays; even their classics e.g. The Playboy of the Western World are unsatisfactory.
The craic (chat, conversation) is all around you and you'll find it with most everyone you meet.You don't even need a chat to find Irish talk though. We are not answerable for the logic, mind. Why a sign reading 'Please keep your feet off the seats' was stuck on a bus window but facing out and so only readable by someone outside the bus; why the elevator attendant would let only 5 in going down but 6 in going up; and what is meant by " genuine Galway tours" are sample mysteries which mere outsiders may never resolve. ( But the fake Galway tours must be a treat; we always wanted to see a fake Galway or have a fake tour of the real one)
The porter now, that's even easier to find as you discovered . We call it porter because it was made by Arthur Guinness. Obvious really . Well it is if you are Irish (Mr Porter in London first found how to make it and built his business there; young Arthur simply copied it and made the stuff in Dublin. Irish workers who had it first in London kept on calling it porter back home. The English call it Guinness )
10-26-04, 01:04 PM babthrower Fred, I was told this story about the Irish:
A routine for arranging for re-fuelling in Dublin required: 1. calculate fuel needs 2. telex fuel needs to Dublin 3. confirm fuel needs by radio with Dublin just before arrival. Yet each time the ground crew wanted verbal confirmation before refuelling. Finally the ground crew chief was asked why he wanted yet another confirmation. Are you ready for the answer? "Ah, well, I like to get everything in triplicate, you know. It avoids duplication."
By the way, we had a hard time finding the craic in both Glasgow and Dublin. We asked around the downtown core but could find only pubs with loud modern music, which my ears cannot tolerate, and which made conversation with the locals impossible. We were told that 'conversation' pubs could be found, but were never in the downtown area, and were getting scarcer all the time. Also the 'craic' was often focused on a sports theme. We did better on Eigg, which had no pub as such, but had a nice little tea shop where you could get a Tennant's and chat with the locals or listen to spontaneous live music in the evenings. Also driving from Dublin to Killarney we found one or two places where we could (frankly) eavesdrop on natural speakers which we found quite charming. But we didn't but in. You know the old saying, "Step on a craic, break your mother's back."
I must conclude that Ireland is catering to the English tourist, then, because everywhere in Ireland the signage was for 'Guinness'. By the way, I thought porter was a very dark, almost sweet, even thick, drink. What we called Guinness and enjoyed was a bit bitter, dark, and quite fresh but with a distinctive flavor.
My email penpal whom I first met on Jeeves years ago got into her rented car in Dublin and drove us confidently all the way to Killarney on the wrong side of the road and the other drivers were so courteous they did the same thing, just to accommodate her! Now, that's what I call making a tourist feel at home.
It's always been a mark of the highest sensitivity and courtesy not to point out a guest's social error, but to behave as if the gaffe is perfectly acceptable. A friend told me this anecdote: Queen Victoria's duties included hosting foreign dignitaries. One on occasion her guest was a prince from an Eastern land. At dinner he sipped the contents of his fingerbowl. Q. Vic. immediately lifted hers, as well, and took a sip, never turning a hair. Now that's class!
10-27-04, 06:19 PM FredPuli Babs, You may be confusing porter (Guinness, Murphy's ) with 'mild' which is dark brown and rather sweet; it is not as strong as regular bitter (normal UK beer ) because less of the sugars in it have fermented into alcohol. Old people sometimes ask for a 'pint of dark and mild' which is half a pint of one (porter) with a half of the other (mild ), poured into a pint glass. The signage is for Guinness because that's the big brand, though Murphy's and one or two small Irish brewers do make dark stout (which is what the trade calls this beer as a generic term). If you ask for 'porter' in England you won't be understood, though if you ask for stout you would be offered Guinness, Murphy's or , quite likely, Mackeson, which is English and called Mackeson stout.
Driving on the 'wrong' side of the road ? Have you not understood that , whilst the English drive on the left side and the Americans drive on the right side the Irish drive on the middle side ? Sure, they weren't just being polite,they were just thinking your friend was a foreigner, sticking to a one -side side Smile
10-27-04, 09:06 PM babthrower All I know is a friend told me to try Guinness when I was in Ireland. I asked for a half of Guinness. I got something that looked quite dark but had a mild, somewhat bitter, distinctive flavor. It didn't taste sweet. I liked it, and if we hadn't been driving I would have asked for another, but... I didn't want to set a bad example for the driver, or make her jealous, either.
Afterwards in Ireland when pubbing I would ask for a Guinness and get the same thing. I don't think anyone was confused, actually.
10-28-04, 01:01 AM FredPuli That's the stuff! " Guinness Is Good For You " was their slogan years ago; for some reason that was discontinued (can't imagine why Roll Eyes ). When pregnant, both my mother and my aunt were 'prescribed' porter by their doctors; they were given two pints a day as the dose, even in the maternity hospital. For some reason they felt the need to continue the dose after the birth. In my aunt's case that was for for the next 52 years. Her sister-in-law, in contrast, found that tonic and a slice of lemon in a glass of gin was as effective post-puerperally; it's the quinine and the vitamin C in it, don't you know Wink .
10-28-04, 02:09 AM Jenny Roberts Of course Guinness is good for you. So is red wine and cider! Wink I love Guinness, but the best pint I had was at the top of the Guinness Brewery in Dublin. They give you a free pint when visiting the museum. Big Grin The museum itself was a bit boring but standing there with a pint of ice cold Guinness and a 360 deg view of Dublin made up for it! Had two actually because my husband didn't want his. Big Grin
10-28-04, 03:39 AM Ritzmar If I'd been your husband you would have been lucky to get one... Roll Eyes 10-28-04, 03:44 AM Jenny Roberts Nobody pinches my pint Ritz! There are dire consequences otherwise Wink
11-02-04, 03:44 PM babthrower Got all my pictures now.
One of these three women, whose photos were taken in Ireland, is (a very flatteringly rendered) babthrower. Each of the others is either (1) babthrower's cousin or (2) internet penpal. Please vote.
4. None of the above. Babthrower is much beautifuller than any of these women. 11-02-04, 05:23 PM jusork 2....obviously?
11-03-04, 11:29 AM babthrower Shucks! You didn't 'buy' the beautifuller claim! Oh, well. Yeah, you're right, Jusork.
11-03-04, 10:39 PM jusork I'm good like that. Wink
We have a AP yearbook, you know. You should send in your nice rosey cheeks.
11-12-04, 02:48 PM doñadiana I was having trouble deciding between white blouse and pink sweater. I couldn't imagine the blonde hanging from a cliff or spreading a load of gravel on a driveway. Anyway you are beautiful which I am sure your husband tells you every day. If he doesn't, he should.
DD
11-13-04, 11:32 AM babthrower Very kind of you to say so, DD. Actually that’s a very flattering photo of me. Usually I get devil-eyes from the flash, or I have double chins like a set of matched luggage, in graduated sizes, or baggy eyes, or something. My husband does sometimes grab me and waltz me aroung singing ‘You are so beautiful to me’, all right, but he’s got the looks in the family. My nickname for him is ‘Cute Stuff’, and you’ll see why from here.
(The woman in the photo is my canoeing buddy. My husband doesn’t like canoeing. He’d rather fish.)
11-13-04, 11:39 PM coldfuse Have you ever seen the move "Eye of the Needle" adapted from a Ken Follett novel? Some of the pictures, especially those of the cottage, remind me of it.
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One of these three women, whose photos were taken in Ireland, is (a very flatteringly rendered) babthrower. Each of the others is either (1) babthrower's cousin or (2) internet penpal. Please vote.
Yes I loved that movie, largely because of the mood which was in turn influenced by the location. It was filmed on the island of Oban on the Firth of Lorne which is between Glasgow and Mallaig where we took the ferry to Eigg. (Eigg is from the Old Norse eige and means 'notch', a reference I guess to the little harbor.) Also I thought Donald Sutherland did a great job as the conflicted spy. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 11-14-04, 12:55 PM Ritzmar Yes, it was an excellent movie, wasn't it? I read the novel first, which I thought was very good indeed, but enjoyed the film probably just as much. I think that Donald Sutherland is one person who really does deserve the title 'star'..
Wink
11-14-04, 01:47 PM babthrower Ritz: I think Donald S. has done some remarkable things in his long career. He was funny in MASH, sexy with Julie Christie in Don't Look Now, and wonderfully touching in Ordinary People. He's done well in a number of action films, and I think he did a helluva job in Eye...Needle,how his character's capacity for extreme violence was revealed. I think flexibility is a hallmark of a truly good actor, don't you think? He's my favorite male actor. Did you know he was kicked out of drama school in London? Told to get a 'real' job? Good thing for us he didn't listen!
11-14-04, 03:41 PM Ritzmar Yes, BT, I heard that some director said something like, " I want 'the boy next door' image. This guy looks like he never lived next door to anyone!"
Sadly, in 'Don't Look Now' my attention was mainly on Julie Christie (do not tell Mrs. Ritzmar, will you?)...what could I have been thinking about...? Roll Eyes Brilliant, versatile actor, I have all the time in the world for Donald Sutherland. And what a scary, excellent film was 'Don't Look Now'...
11-14-04, 05:54 PM babthrower That director was right. Donald Sutherland grew up in very isloated circumstances. His family was eccentric. He insists he was a happy child, though.
Don't Look Now is unique, in my opinion. It's not horror, it's too authentic to fit into that genre, but it has elements of horror. It's true tragedy, in the Greek sense. We are in the grip of pity and terror as this good and loving man moves toward his doom. And even the villain is pitiable. In a way, it's like James' The Turn of the Screw (the novel, not the movie, which failed.)
Often those actors sometimes called 'great', such as Katherine Hepburn, owe their success less to remarkable talent and more to good casting. She played herself, i.e. and upper class New Englander, over and over, with wit and intelligence. But she's not a 'great'.
We agree Sutherland is a 'great'. Who else comes to mind? Women? I like Christie, come to that. I remember her first movie, it was called 'Darling'. She has the ability to take a single moment, and show it so flawlessly that it becomes unforgettable. I'm thinking for example of that scene in McCabe and Mrs. Miller when she's lost in a opium dream while her lover dies outside in the snow.
11-15-04, 04:30 AM Ritzmar Babs, is the film to which you refer, based on the Henry James novel, The Turn of the Screw (which I have not read yet) 'The Innocents'? If so, I cannot agree with you about the film, which I thought a masterpiece of suspense. There was also a song which ran through this film called 'Willow Waley', sung by a young child which blended menace and beauty in a really unnerving way. I saw it about 40 years ago and have never forgotten this...or perhaps you refer to another film which I have not encountered...?... Wink
11-15-04, 11:35 AM babthrower Yes, the 1961 film, with Deborah Kerr and two wonderful child actors. Hmmm. Yes, I agree with you that the suspense was well done. I think perhaps my disappointment was based on personal idiosyncracy. As you know the James story did not come down on one side or the other as to whether the ghosts were real, or only imagined by the governess based upon gossip and an overactive neurotic imagination. As a result, the reader is constantly wondering whether the manifestations are caused by evil spirits in which case one feels like screaming, "Get those children out of that house!", or whether by a crazed governess, in which case the reader feels like screaming, "Get that neurotic out of the house and away from those children!"
Because of my personal views, (extreme skepticism), I would take the latter interpretation. This to me made the book much more terrifying, because sadly children often are the victims of metaphysical nonsense on the part of the adults who care for them.
I would say, for example, that terrifying small children with notions of hellfire and Satan and so forth constitutes child abuse.
It did seem to me that the movie came down on the side that there were real ghosts. That is why I thought it was weaker than the book.
Was that your take -- that the ghosts were real?
11-16-04, 02:47 AM Ritzmar I thought that the ghosts were real. As I say, I have yet to read the Henry James novel, so you have the advantage of me, Madam! However, probably one day...
With only the film to go on, I could only assess the film, and for me it worked beautifully, when I was 17 or 18 or so. I may have been even younger. I was 15 in 1961 and had been going to see 'X' films (16 or over) since the previous year...very naughty! (always hoping to see ladies wearing less than they should; grubby little boy).
So what I would make of it now at the age of 58 I really cannot say, but I still remember the song and could probably play it (it was unaccompanied, but I do know that, although it has the flavour of a genuine folk song that it was especially written for the film).
I suspect that I would still find it to be an excellent film. There is always the danger that we take The Book as Gospel and view any cinematic deviation from it as a weakness. This is not necessarily so. 'Jaws', a fine novel is about a holiday seaside resort's attempts to deal with a potential disaster to its economy and way of life, and the interplay of the players and their character revelations and developments in the light of attempting to avert that disaster. The film, which in my opinion is just as good, concerns itself with Man's intelligence and wits pitted against against a creature threatening what Man sees as His domain. And the enemy, being in its natural environment starts with a big advantage. How man as a team triumphs by intelligence and reasoning against adversity is a theme as old as the hills, and will be told and re-told as long as Man exists.
Yes, I did enjoy 'The Innocents'... Wink
11-16-04, 03:50 PM babthrower Ritzmar says:
"There is always the danger that we take The Book as Gospel and view any cinematic deviation from it as a weakness."
I personally view each work as unique. Take any historical play of Shakespeare. It's easy to point to some detail and say it is not historically accurate. But so what? It's drama, not history. If it works dramatically, it works.
Similarly I don't fault the movie because it is not totally faithful to the book. I just didn't care for the treatment. And, as I said, that's probably for purely personal reasons. To me, a child in the total control of someone whose grasp on reality is not too firm is much more terrifying than a child frightened by ghosts, because I don't believe in ghosts! But I do believe in spooky people who like to over-control children.
So in effect you and I speak of 'different' stories. I wish now I had not read James before seeing the movie. I do remember that it was extremely well acted. If I had thought of it as a ghost story, I probably would have thoroughly enjoyed it!
Now, a really scary movie was The Haunting . 1963, Claire Bloom, Julie Harris, based on Shirley Jackson's book, The Haunting of Hill House. That was simply a ghost story, no ambiguity, and when I read the book, and saw the excellent film version, at a visceral level I believed in ghosts!
"Haven't you noticed how nothing in this house seems to move until you look away and then you just...catch something out of the corner of your eye?"
11-19-04, 01:22 PM doñadiana Yes, your husband is very good looking. You make a good pair. Is that your yard? It looks lovely.
DD
11-20-04, 01:02 AM babthrower Hi, DD
What I like most about how my husband looks is that his face shows exactly what he’s like. You can see the honesty, the kindness, the humor, and all of his best qualities in the character lines of his face. To me, that’s true good looks. But one of his best qualities is not, I think, shown in his character lines. He has a very logical mind. If you’ve ever had to deal with a chronically illogical person (and we all have had to), you will know why I so value this characteristic.
Yes, we like our wild little two acres, between the mountains and the sea.
Do you have any photos you would like to share with us?
11-20-04, 07:54 AM doñadiana Babs: Have I ever dealt with a chronically illogical mind? Well, latinamericans run on pure emotion and I am married to one, so I will let you decide. Actually, I try to put a damper on his excess emotion (I am the devil's advocate which irks him to death) and my husband manages to show more common sense when I go off the deep end, so I guess we balance each other out. We have been married 42 years so I guess things go right most of the time. Big Grin
We are going to be gone all of December but maybe when I get back I will work on sharing some pictures.
DD
11-20-04, 10:29 AM babthrower Gotcha. Smile
Well, this is the Travel section. Where are you going in December? Whereever it is, take pictures!
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Posts: 6253 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
