In the atheism section, there is a discussion going about about tax-exempt status for Churches. I have a couple of questions.
1) Are churches tax-exempt because they are religious organizations, or because they are non-profit organizations?
2) If they are tax-exempt because they are religious organizations, how is it determined what consitutes a religion? How do they ensure that dishonest people don't use this to for their own gain (such as televangelists)?
3) If they are tax-exempt because they are non-profit organizations, how is it determined what consitutes a non-profit organization? (same question as #2, essentially).
Thanks! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 07-22-02, 05:57 PM JohnGalt Churches are 501(c)(3) organizations. These organizations are tax exempt.
Technically 501(c)(3) organizations are not allowed to engage in political activity or they lose their tax exemption. However, in reality, churches are allowed or denied this exemption depending on their attitude towards government. A church that actively lobbies in the politcal arena and calls for more government will never lose their tax-exemption.
For example, large mainstream churhces such as the Presbyterians lobby all the time for more and bigger government in the areas of social programs of all sorts and political issues such as more gun control. They never lose their tax exepmt status despite this political lobbying.
Smaller (or less popular) churches that call for less government lose their tax-exempt status. This has happened to the Christian Coalition.
The Christian Coalition also lobbies in the political arena. But what they lobby for is frowned upon by the government.
You can also see what happens to small unpopular churches such as the Branch Davidians. Pi$$ off the government and they send in the helicopter gun ships and tanks with flame throwers and gas outlawed for use in warfare.
The issue is not so much churches, but whether or not those churches sing the praises of government. Those that do are blessed by the government. Those that don't suffer the wrath of government--including losing their tax-exemption.
07-22-02, 08:36 PM mahal Here's the IRS booklet that gives guidelines for churches, who gets the tax-exempt status, how to apply, how to lose it, and what incomes of a church might actually be taxable if they're unrelated to the main activity:
Despite what was said above, there are some pretty strange religions out there enjoying the status of tax-exemption, including one that I know of that will ordain you over the internet, post a certificate of ordination with your name, and allow you to name your own church.
(I remember when some of the sailors on my ship found that site! Within a week, we had 3 ordained priests in our division. One professed complete self-gratification through sex, one through gambling and riding motorcycles, and the other changed his name to "The Reverend and Honorable Brother Robert".)
Both your beliefs and your tax-exemption are protected by law as long as you're within IRS guidelines.
07-23-02, 12:03 AM Strider0 JG, for a minute there you had me rubbing my eyes...I thought you were going to post a purely factual response...and then...LOL! Wham. Whether you intended it or not, your post watered my eyeballs...thanks for that!
mahal -- you know, one day you and I need to trade some sea stories...I can relate to the experience you describe. I never ceased to be amazed at the encounters my shipmates could get themselves into!
07-23-02, 09:30 AM JohnGalt Strider0: If you could simply show me where one item I posted was factually wrong, it would be greatly appreciated.
Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it is not true.
07-23-02, 03:50 PM mahal Strider0 While I'm sure it would be entertaining for everyone for you and I to post the very best of the US Navy, most of my stories aren't fit for all ages.
Too bad, too. razz
07-24-02, 12:05 AM Strider0 JG, you're one of my heroes here on AnswerPool...slanted hero to be sure...but hero nonetheless.
07-24-02, 10:43 AM JohnGalt
quote:Originally posted by Strider0: ...slanted hero to be sure...
Thanks! And remember, I always admit my biases! smile I'm biased toward the side of freedom (and science!) smile
Speaking of biases: I'm no big fan of the Christian Coalition (as the old bumber sticker said, "The Moral Majority is Neither!) But between the charlatans in that biased fanatical religious group and the biased, fanatical bureaucrats in the IRS, the IRS is worse! The IRS has more guns and power than all the churches in the US combined.
07-25-02, 03:05 PM aminator2002 co·a·li·tion Pronunciation Key (k-lshn) n. An alliance, especially a temporary one, of people, factions, parties, or nations. A combination into one body; a union.
This is not a church at all, but a union of churches to gain political influence. The Presbyterian church may be doing a similar thing by lobbying, but the nature of the organization is fundamentally different.
I am a Presbyterian who has never met a Christian Coalitionist...
Here's a case of an individual church being seized (by men with guns) by the orders of the IRS.
07-25-02, 06:33 PM mahal The IRS has already ruled that licensed ministers need not have income tax withheld from their salaries. They are as exempt as their churches.
The church in JohnGalt's article is in trouble for not withholding taxes from other employees who are not ordained ministers.
Further, they could actually refuse to withhold taxes legally for any employee who did not expect to make a high enough annual salary to pay taxes. (Anyone in the "zero bracket" could do this.) But they still have to pay FICA and Medicare, like everyone else.
I think they didn't need to defy the federal marshals and the IRS as they did.
[This message was edited by mahal on 07-25-02 at 06:42 PM.]
07-27-02, 03:39 PM anguilla mahal & strider0 --
I was ordained by that church when it was mail-order, long before the internet. It was supposed to protect me from the draft, since ministers weren't being sent into combat in Vietnam.
However, the U.S. government only recognizes a person or group as a legitimate church if something like 75% of their income is derived from the church.
07-27-02, 08:33 PM mahal Wow. Small world, huh?
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