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Diamond
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Could the Korean nuclear blasts have in any way caused the Hawaiian earthquake?
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: U.S.A. | Registered: 06-08-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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No.
 
Posts: 5891 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 06-13-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I am curious - how can nuclear tests in the ocean NOT cause an earthquake or tsunami of some sort? (I believe you and am not arguing, Methos, I just don't understand it.)Also, how much marine wildlife is killed by such tests?
 
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Diamond
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"how can nuclear tests in the ocean..."
The Korean test was not in the ocean, it was underground in North Korea.
"...NOT cause an earthquake or tsunami of some sort?"
The Korean test did cause an earthquake (a weak one, suggesting that the bomb did not work as well as planned), in North Korea, the moment it happened, centered where it happened. There is no reasonable chance that it caused a second one, 6 days later, in Hawaii.
 
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I'm almost as baffled by the idea of nuclear testing underground, Methos, but I'll stick with the ocean questions. For me this really has nothing to do with Hawaii (it didn't even occur to me to think there might be a connection), but when I heard about the tests, I did wonder about their impact on the environment. Aren't most nuclear tests done in the ocean, or did I somehow make that up?
 
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Diamond
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When we first started making nukes, we tested in a variety of locations - underwater, underground, on islands, on land, and in the upper atmosphere. Partly because it wasn't good for the wildlife, but mostly because there was concern about fallout affecting humans, most nuclear testing (and all US and USSR testing) moved underground in the early 60s. France and China continued above-ground testing, but they stopped in 1974 and 1980, respectively. Except for North Korea, India, and Pakistan, even underground nuclear testing stopped in 1996 with the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. We (the US) last tested any part of our arsenal in 1992.

So the short answer is, yes, above-ground and underwater nuclear tests hurt wildlife, which is part of the reason that everyone now tests underground and that most nuclear countries have tested exclusively underground for nearly half a century.
 
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How large of a space underground is necessary for a nuclear test? Is it in some kind of human made cavern or something?

Forgive these questions- I am fully aware of how stupid they sound. But I just don't have even the slightest picture of what underground nuclear testing would look like?
 
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Diamond
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I don't know the details, but, as I understand it, it is essentially a shaft drilled 100-500 meters into the ground. This picture may give you some idea of scale. The white tower is used to lower the bomb down the shaft. What look like craters are actually sites of previous tests where the ground has sunken because the rock supporting it was pulverized.
 
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Year and years ago it was suggested to plant small nukes along the San Andres fault where it sticks to cause ruptures that would lead to small earth quakes before the stressed built up to large ruptures.

The idea was to keep the fault active with minor quakes never allowing it to build up to a 7.+ quake again.

Those would be deep wells right at/in/on the fault at key locations (where the fault “sticks” and doesn’t let the plates slide pass each other). I imagine the idea was tossed out as a bad one since nobody knows were the radiation would go, if striking a sticking point wouldn’t result in setting off a chain of quakes or an “unzipping” of the fault, or if it would actually work at all.

That would require precise placement on the fault in question.

Hawaii is home to the most active persistent Volcanoes on earth. On above sea level, Mt. Kilauea which has been erupting and spewing lava for quite some time and is under constant study. The other being the future isle of Loihi: http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/HCV/loihi.html

Due to that we can easily assume that the geo-activity means that Hawaii will rock and roll occasionally. My link to the bab island site shows that earthquakes have been taking place.

=======

Nuclear testing was (way back in the 50's) above ground, but the politicians of the world got together and decided that tests could be done underground to keep the radioactivity in the local area.

Tests above and beneath the ocean were run basically not to test the hydrogen bombs, but to test their affects on naval vessels. Bikini Isles Tests: http://www.bikiniatoll.com/ also on people and the environment – but hey the government is usually the last to know unimportant aspects of things, for instance, while every American knew that the Civic Centre of New Orleans was under siege from refugees, the Feds had no clue…..


Today's tests are below ground, they are in place to test to see if the bomb works as planned - The above ground tests (first ones) were test of bombs, later ones were test of affects on people, buildings, vehicles etc.

N.K’s Test was a test of the theory and design of their bomb and the nuclear test could be testing the purity of the material used as well.

Nuclear bombs are rather simple devices to make, the theory is readily available everywhere. However some of those designs require very precise measurements, while others require very “pure” fissile material. Thus the phrase “Weapons Grade ___” (Plutonium/Uranium/whatever). This reflects on the refined quality of the end product.

Why “how to make a nuclear bomb” is free information and not a top secret science project is because of the purity of material needed – thus all the fuss over Iran’s owning a reactor and now having the potential to refine an produce weapons grade uranium and/or plutonium. Thus it is still problematic for me to become the first nuclear power on my block.

The Atomic Bomb is strictly fissile (like the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Those are “pure” fission –meaning Plutonium or Uranium only. Hydrogen bombs take it up as step and by using a fission bomb to start a fusion reaction (Hydrogen compressed until is fuses together to form heavier atoms which also spits out excess protons/electrons and other particles). I’m assuming that N. Korea tested an atomic (pure fission) bomb and not a hydrogen bomb.

Early above ground tests in Nevada (as example) were fission bombs, later tests in the Pacific where Hydrogen bombs.

Today’s testing of a bomb is one of two things. A test of a new design/material purity, strength blah – or a test of an older war head that has been sitting around on top of a missile. The electronics and other parts of war heads degrade rather quickly under bombardment of radiation from the fissile material of a nuclear bomb. Thus old Nuclear powers (like the USA and USSR) test war heads from their stock pile to make certain that their nukes actually work. Imagine the embarrassment on Judgment day if all of the nukes just didn’t work, we would all just die from the shame. Wink
 
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