What about this story...kinda scary..\ *************************************************** 02-24-04, 08:38 AM aminator2002 I hope that we begin to hear more about this very soon. This should be a campaign issue. I only fear that if it actually becomes an issue for GWB that he will find a way to bomb some foreign country because of it.
Did you have a question?
02-24-04, 08:43 AM methos Since it was mentioned in the article, the report on Scientific Integrity in Policymaking can be found here.
02-24-04, 10:40 AM samantha I guess my question would be why did they cover this all up? And how dangerous is this really going to be for all of us?
02-24-04, 11:19 AM methos I've read a few excerpts from the Pentagon report now. So far, while the report certainly treats global warming as a serious problem with potentiallly catastrophic consequences and suggests action both to prepare for and attempt to prevent such a disaster, it doesn't seem to have close to the scale of alarmism that the Yahoo article suggests. It gives what it calls an extreme but plausible scenario. The report begins with the following statement:
The purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable – to push the boundaries of current research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on United States national security.
We have interviewed leading climate change scientists, conducted additional research, and reviewed several iterations of the scenario with these experts. The scientists support this project, but caution that the scenario depicted is extreme in two fundamental ways. First, they suggest the occurrences we outline would most likely happen in a few regions, rather than on globally. Second, they say the magnitude of the event may be considerably smaller.
We have created a climate change scenario that although not the most likely, is plausible, and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be consideredimmediately.
As for it being a secret supressed document, apparently Fortune magazine obtained a copy from the Pentagon (not through any subterfuge, the Pentagon simply gave it to them) and released it nearly a month before the Observer claimed to have uncovered it.
The report says, as recent studies published in scientific journals have, that the consequences of global warming may be more rapid than people used to think, once a certain breaking point is reached.
02-24-04, 12:10 PM Fritzzs That article was written for the "Chicken Littles" of the world who will believe anything written that is of a negative view....
About a year ago, one of our TV Meteorlogical Head forcaster ( with a Doctorate Decree) came back from a world-wide meeting of weather forcasting.... He was asked in an interview what his opinion was on Global Warming...He replied.... There is no global warming...When all of the average temperature from around the world was compiled, there was not enought of a raise to indicate any such thing....
Ever so many thousands of years we have an Ice Age - then when that stops, we have a warming to thaw out - which is what we are in now....
BUT, if it makes you happy to go around squaking that the global warming is going to fry us by the year 2020, then do so...and be happy.....
02-24-04, 02:43 PM samantha So Donrent your saying everything about globel warming that is written is just not true? Roll Eyes
02-24-04, 02:44 PM samantha Thanks Methos and Ami
02-24-04, 05:31 PM Fritzzs
quote:Originally posted by samantha: So Donrent your saying everything about globel warming that is written is just not true? Roll Eyes
Most of it is ExtremistBullCrappist to make news...
IN OTHER WORDS .....H-E-L-L Y-E-S......
All it takes is a little common sense to find out what is really happening around the world, and figure out who the "EXPERTS" are that is doing this so called expert writings...
Didn't you read what I said about the world going thru certain global conditions...???? This is not a new discovery - It happens ..
Go roll your eyes somewhere else, and learn something......!
[This message was edited by donrent on 02-24-04 at 05:42 PM.]
02-24-04, 09:51 PM coldfuse Thanks for the link, 'nick' - Olympics, bah! We have 'em beat hands down in the CO2 department!
The environment is a serious issue. As with most things, however, the fear tacticians and extremists may have done more bad than good for their causes over the years. Rest assured, sammy, the various scenarios envisioned by your link will not come to pass.
02-25-04, 12:04 AM samantha Thanks fuse and you to nick for the link.. I seen that and got very concerned..
02-25-04, 12:43 AM DorianGreyed Sammy, I have been reading about global warming for years, and almost all the early predictions (the non-alarmist ones) pointed to some things that have already taken place, most notably a shrinkage in glaciers and polar ice caps. While the extremes that were in your link are not likely, as Methos pointed out, there is definitely movement in that direction, expert testimony from local Florida TV weathermen (" with a Doctorate Decree") notwithstanding. Don is right about the planet undergoing periodic changes, and the planet should be OK. However, humanity has a small window of average world temperature that allows it to successfully survive. Just think of how you feel when your temperature goes up 2°. How soon it will happen is still conjecture, as is how much of a change will actually take place, but I feel certain that you will live to see some of the effects that even a blind weatherman would notice.
"Hot Times in Alaska Premieres June 8, 2004 The current scientific consensus is that the steady warming trend seen in the global climate is caused by people. It is largely a consequence of the emissions from fossil fuels that have been burned in ever increasing quantities since the industrial revolution. The effects of this warming trend -- sea level rise, shifting weather patterns, ecological change, and so on are showing up first in the coldest environments, the polar and sub-polar regions...Subject areas to be explored include: changing patterns of rain and snowfall; shrinking glaciers; melting permafrost; increasing forest pests; disruption of wildlife." - www.pbs.org
"Mountain glaciers and small ice caps outside the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets make up only about 6 percent of the world's total ice mass. A survey of 160,000 mountain glaciers and ice caps in all glaciated regions of the world (1) shows that the volume of the world's glaciers isdeclining, and the rate of ice loss continues to accelerate. There has been a significant decrease in the area and volume of mountain glaciers, especially at mid- and low-latitudes." - www-das.uwyo.edu
"Bob Krimmel, a scientist in a broad-brimmed hat and gloves, is initially winded by the altitude change, but spends much of the day trudging through brush to get to this spot--the longest-studied glacier in the northern Cascade mountains ( state of Washington), the nation's most heavily glaciated area outside of Alaska...So much snow. And yet ... The glacier is shrinking. "It's very easy to see the glacier is much, much smaller," Krimmel says later, back at his office at U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). Seated at a computer, he looks at the side-by-side images--a photo taken in 1928 and another 60 years later." - E: The Environmental Magazine > Sept, 2000
"All over South America, glaciers are meeting the same fate as Antizana: Within the next 15 years, all of the continent's small glaciers -- about 80 percent of the total -- will disappear, according to Francou. He should know: As director of research for the French government's Institute of Research and Development, Francou has been researching tropical glaciers for 15 years, making him one of the foremost experts in the field.
"The trend is so clear that you can't argue with the numbers," Francou claims." - www.gristmagazine.com
"Glaciers in the Bolivian Andes are shrinking at an alarming rate, say scientists. 'The bare rock around the glacier works as an oven, speeding the melting.' -Dr Robert Gallaire
Data collected from tropical ice fields near the world's highest capital, La Paz, show mass loss in the 1990s at rates 10 times greater than previous decades." - www.news.bbc.co.uk
"Switzerland's glaciers melted by a record amount during 2003 under the onslaught of long-term climate change, a top Swiss science academy says.
The retreat of the glaciers in the Swiss Alps reached up to 150 metres, with an overall melting exceeding that observed in any year since measurements began in the 19th century, the Swiss Academy of Natural Sciences said. The shrinkage of the mountain ice was not the direct result of record hot summer temperatures in Switzerland and Europe last year, it said." - www.abc.net.au
"...showed images of glaciers in the Andes Mountains in South America, which have decreased by almost a kilometer in the past 13 years, and a glacier in Columbia, which the team is watching closely because it is losing meters of ice each week. Wessels says the team has also seen glaciers shrinking in the Pyrenees Mountains in France and Spain, as well as in the Swiss Alps." - www.aip.org
"By 2020, the snows of Kilimanjaro may exist only in old photographs. The glaciers in Montana’s Glacier National Park could disappear by 2030. And by mid-century, the Arctic Sea may be completely ice-free during summertime. As the earth’s temperature has risen in recent decades, the earth’s ice cover has begun to melt. And that melting is accelerating. On Greenland, an ice-covered island three times the size of Texas, once-stable glaciers are now melting at a quickening rate. The Jakobshavn Glacier on the island’s southwest coast, which is one of the major drainage outlets from the interior ice sheet, is now thinning four times faster than during most of the twentieth century. Each year Greenland loses some 51 cubic kilometers of ice, enough to annually raise sea level 0.13 millimeters. Were Greenland’s entire ice sheet to melt, global sea level could rise by a startling 7 meters (23 feet), inundating most of the world’s coastal cities. The Himalayas contain the world’s third largest ice mass after Antarctica and Greenland. Most Himalayan glaciers have been thinning and retreating over the past 30 years, with losses accelerating to alarming levels in the past decade. On Mount Everest, the glacier that ended at the historic base camp of Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay, the first humans to reach the summit, has retreated 5 kilometers (3 miles) since their 1953 ascent. The Himalayan glaciers feed the seven major rivers of Asia—the Ganges, Indus, Brahmaputra, Salween, Mekong, Yangtze, and Huang He (Yellow)- and thus contribute to the year-round water supply of a vast population. In India alone, some 500 million people, including those in New Delhi and Calcutta, depend on glacier meltwater that feeds into the Ganges River system. Glaciers in Central Asia’s Tien Shan Mountains have shrunk by nearly 30 percent between 1955 and 1990. In arid western China, shrinking glaciers account for at least 10 percent of freshwater supplies." - www.content-wire.com
By the way, Don, I see that Florida has an average elevation of about 100'. I hope your ace weatheman is on an upper floor.
02-25-04, 01:20 AM samantha Thanks Dorian for all that information and links I printed this out so i can sit and read it. This is sad though. Frown
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 8657 | Location: BLONDEVILLE, USA | Registered: 06-07-02
With the glaciers melting, does this mean I should resume work on the ark I started to build in the back yard? The neighbors said it was an eyesore, and it violated the "homeowners rules and regulations." **************************************************** 02-26-04, 11:42 PM DorianGreyed At 4500'. Reno seems safe, unless you are downstream from a glacier, and it melts suddenly. But an ark could be an artistic statement, couldn't it?
"If climatic conditions remain as they are, all the glaciers (in Peru) below 18,000 feet will disappear by around 2015," CONAM's president Patricia Iturregui told Reuters in an interview.
Peru has the most tropical glaciers in Latin America and has already lost 20 percent of the 1,615 miles of glaciers running through its central and southern Andes in the past 30 years, according to CONAM. - (Bold Mine - DG) - CNN.com
Also from the above: "The world has been heating up in the past 50 years and the Earth is at its hottest in 10,000 years, scientists say."
In compliance with the fairness policy, I re-post the weatherman's statement from a "TV Meteorlogical Head forcaster" in Fritzzs' area: " He was asked in an interview what his opinion was on Global Warming...He replied.... There is no global warming...When all of the average temperature from around the world was compiled, there was not enought of a raise to indicate any such thing..." Remember, he has "Doctorate Decree." 08-02-04, 12:24 PM methos Fritzzs - Since you are using this meteorolgist as a source, would you care to give his name? Thanks.
08-02-04, 04:32 PM Fritzzs
quote:Originally posted by methos: Fritzzs - Since you are using this meteorolgist as a source, would you care to give his name? Thanks.
The forcaster who I was refering to said that about a year ago, and has since then transfered to another station, and being my normal self, I do not remember his name, other than Jim...I'll see what I can find...
08-02-04, 04:53 PM methos Global Warming Thanks.
08-18-04, 09:20 PM DorianGreyed Meanwhile....European Union's environment institute, the European Environment Agency, has predicted that Europe will have warm winters by 2080. Cold winters are expected to disappear, and heat waves and floods may increase, according to the Agency. These findings seem to match what U.S. climate researchers published last week. The US group predicted that, as global warming heats Earth, heat waves might become more common, and regions like the U.S. Midwest and Europe’s Mediterranean area, already prone to heat, could suffer even more.
"The concentration of carbon dioxide, one of the heat-trapping greenhouse gases blamed for global warming, in the lower atmosphere is now at its highest level for at least 420,000 years and stands 34 percent above its level before the Industrial Revolution, the EEA report said." "According to the agency’s study, temperatures in Europe have risen by an average of 1.7 degrees Fahrenheit over the past 100 years and are projected to climb by a further 3.6 to 11.3 degrees this century due to the rise in greenhouse gas emissions. "That compares to a global rise in temperatures of 0.36 to 1.26 degrees in the past century and a forecast of another rise of 2.52 to 10.4 degrees this century, said the report. "The researchers said glaciers in eight of Europe’s nine glacial regions were at their lowest levels in terms of area and mass in 5,000 years. "They forecast that sea levels in Europe would rise at a pace more than two-to-four times faster than the rise seen in the last century — a threat to low-lying countries such as the Netherlands, where half the population lives below sea level." - MSNBC.com
Maybe we could all meet at GreatGrandma Pup's house in Kansas for a beach party. Hey, Pup, surf's up !
[I wonder if Fritzzs' crack "TV Meteorlogical Head forcaster ( with a Doctorate Decree)" moved to higher ground?)
08-18-04, 10:12 PM methos So what has happened so far that seems to be a consequence of global warming?
DG has noted a few.
One that has appeared in the last few years is the dead zone in the Pacific off the coast of Oregon.
Normally, high winds result in a trunover of ocean water, bringing cold, low-oxygen, but nutrient-rich water to the surface. In 2002, the water was different - it had even less oxygen and even more nutrients, and it was even colder. The nutrients caused an algae bloom, which robbed the water of even more of its oxygen. Basically, sea organisms suffocated in the 300 square mile area. Last year it was similar, but a smaller effect, this year it seems to be similar to what it was in 2002. Nothing like this had been observed before that.
Waht's this got to do with global warming? The ocean currents shifted and picked up northern water on their way to Oregon. This is one of the predicted effects of global warming. So far it has had a noticeable, but not severe, affect on the local fishing economy, but the zone drifts, and if it drifts closer to Oregon, it could be disasterous for the fishing economy, and the effect may not be isolated. Depending on what happens to the ocean currents in future years, it may also be larger in future years.
09-20-04, 05:20 PM DorianGreyed Mussels near North Pole hint at warmer Earth Monday, September 20, 2004 Posted: 12:09 PM EDT (1609 GMT) OSLO, Norway (Reuters) -- Mussels have been found growing on the seabed just 1,300 km (800 miles) from the North Pole in a likely sign of global warming, scientists said on Friday. The blue mussels, which normally favor warmer waters like off France or the eastern United States, were discovered last month off Norway's Svalbard archipelago in waters that are covered with ice most of the year.
Inuit peoples in Canada, for instance, are seeing robins for the first time and hunters are falling through previously solid sea ice. In Scandinavia, birch trees are moving northwards into previously icy areas used for reindeer herding.
The scientists monitoring Svalbard also said they had found seas free of ice further north than for 250 years at one point this summer. - CNN.com
The Times They Are A-Changin', by Bob Dylan
Come gather 'round people Wherever you roam And admit that the waters Around you have grown And accept it that soon You'll be drenched to the bone. If your time to you Is worth savin' Then you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin'
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Glaciers once held up by a floating ice shelf off Antarctica are now sliding off into the sea -- and they are going fast, scientists said on Tuesday. Two separate studies from climate researchers and the space agency NASA show the glaciers are flowing into Antarctica's Weddell Sea, freed by the 2002 breakup of the Larsen B ice shelf. Writing in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the researchers said their satellite measurements suggest climate warming can lead to rapid sea level rise.
Large ice shelves in the Antarctic Peninsula disintegrated in 1995 and 2002 as a result of climate warming. But these floating ice shelves did not affect sea level as they melted.
Glaciers, however, are another story. They rest on land and when they slide off into the water they instantly affect sea level.
The Ross ice shelf, for example, is the main outlet for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, with several large glaciers that could, if they melted completely, raise sea levels by 16 feet (5 metres). (Bold here mine- DG) - CNN.com
Melting Antarctic glaciers tied to rising seas Studies find 150 miles of coastline changed in 15 years
It was not clear how the loss of the Larsen B ice shelf would affect nearby glaciers. But soon after its collapse, researchers saw nearby glaciers flowing up to eight times faster than before. “If anyone was waiting to find out whether Antarctica would respond quickly to climate warming, I think the answer is yes,” said Theodore Scambos, a University of Colorado glacier expert who worked on one study. “We’ve seen 150 miles of coastline change drastically in just 15 years.” - MSNBC.com
Global warming is likely to produce a significant increase in the intensity and rainfall of hurricanes in coming decades, according to the most comprehensive computer analysis done so far.
By the 2080's, seas warmed by rising atmospheric concentrations of heat-trapping greenhouse gases could cause a typical hurricane to intensify about an extra half step on the five-step scale of destructive power, says the study, done on supercomputers at the Commerce Department's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, N.J. And rainfall up to 60 miles from the core would be nearly 20 percent more intense. - NewYorkTimes.com
A rainy night in Georgia, such a rainy night in Georgia Lord, I believe it's rainin' all over the world I feel like it's rainin' all over the world - Words and Music by Tony Joe White
Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, et al.
11-08-04, 12:29 PM DorianGreyed Study: Arctic warming at twice the global rate Species, including polar bears, may go extinct as Arctic ice melts - CNN.com
11-09-04, 01:47 AM DvdGStwrt Anybody know "It the End of the World as we know it?"
Climate change is the end of the world - at least as we know it. Either way it falls life as we know it ends and our delicate civilization can either survive or fall.
I have placed my bets on Fall - only because I know that the way we conduct business (agriculture, dependency on good weather, steady climate) is not set up for a change of climate, even a optimistic change of decades.
I think that those who reuse to address this and see the early warning signs are believing that these things will come to pass centuries from now - not in a few decades or even right now.
Bush and Corporations are trying real hard to put of the changes that must take place. A shame they do not understand that they are dong far more harm than good.
On the lighter side, we now have Afghanistan oil and Iraqi oil to burn.
I am personally of the thinking the warming trends we see are natural occurances. We as humans have no control one way or the other on which way the wind blows. I am sure we will once again see a time come with predictions of another ice age especially when the Global Warming we've been promised doesn't pan out.
Oh geeeeeze... Another "HENNY PENNY, THE SKY IS FALLING" article.. After the ice age, the earth went into a natural global warming period, which we are still in...What ever global warming we have, is a natural occurance and is not due to cow farts or a Buick's emission... There has been no proof of an occurance of warming, much less a rise in the Oceans level... For the past two "winters" where I live in SW Florida, we have had much cooler winters than usual...Have not seen the summers any hotter than normal, and the beaches are still at the same lever... Some beaches are smaller, but thats called beach erosion due to storms....which is a natural occurance....
Posts: 2258 | Location: Naples, Florida, United States | Registered: 06-03-02
