Would waving signs, burning flags, wearing t-shirts with offensive messages, etc., fall under the catagory of free speech, or does free speech only mean verbal?
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04-30-04, 10:26 PM
Tree
Hmmmm... honilov, to ME "free speech" would mean the right to express your opinion - but in a civilized way. Burning of flags and offensive messages is crossing the line and considered vulgar. I certainly wouldn't classify this as "free speech"!

04-30-04, 10:27 PM
MrsS
Signs, shirts and controlled burns, whether of bras,flags or crosses, are all protected as free speech. The real question is WHERE you may do these things....you may not burn a cross, for example, in MY lawn but you may do so on your own property or in some cases, public property.
I can wear a "@%@^$#@ Pat Robertson" in any public place, except a school, or (If I don't care for a hefty contempt fine)
courthouse, but it would be legal for any private venue to refuse me entry because of my attire.

05-01-04, 12:45 AM
coldfuse
The issue is complex. Just look at the annotations list (red them if you wish!) at this first amendment link.

05-01-04, 01:35 PM
honilov
Thanks all. I was actually thinking that freedom of speech only applied to verbal messages, and I really hadn't given it much thought until recently.

05-01-04, 10:05 PM
coldfuse
*read them, even Big Grin

05-04-04, 10:01 AM
Elexina
Yep, free speech covers all sorts of forms of expression, not just verbal ones.
As far as crosses go, though, I believe that it's actually illegal to burn a cross in protest because of it's racially charged history of the action -though I could be wrong.

05-04-04, 11:20 AM
MrsS
The Supreme Court ruled not long ago that, while the act of burning a cross is wildly controversial, it cannot be forbidden...Freedom of expression applies even to ideas that are offensive to a great many people.
The Burning Cross question comes down to location....to burn a cross on the property of someone who has not given permission is a criminal act, often designated as a Hate Crime, but anyone is free to burn a cross on their own property,or on property they have legal access to (assuming that open fires are permitted)....I find the act repugnant, but must defend the High Court ruling....many of my ideas and beliefs are offensive to many people and if I want to be able to express them, others, too, must have the same freedom...not just those I agree with.

05-04-04, 03:40 PM
juanruiz
"many of my ideas and beliefs are offensive to many people and if I want to be able to express them, others, too, must have the same freedom...not just those I agree with."

Excellent point, MrsS. I wish more people held the same belief.

05-05-04, 01:35 PM
Elexina
Right, right, thanks MrsS. I had this debate with my husband a while ago about why it was "okay" to burn the flag but not "okay" to burn a cross and I think I just got confused as to which was the legal or illegal act nowadays... Wink
And JR, ditto.

05-05-04, 05:17 PM
coldfuse
A great point, JR. All too often we hear that those with opposing views are "censors." People often seem to live in their own little worlds.

05-05-04, 06:32 PM
clarebear
There is a fine line in freedom of speech when your rights hinder someone else's rights.

This reminds me of the work of Scott Tyler. In order to exercise your freedom of speech, you had to walk on the flag to write your opinion of the proper way to display the flag.
What is the proper way to display the American Flag

05-10-04, 09:57 PM
DorianGreyed
What most fail to understand is that popular opinion needs no protection; it is the unpopular opinion whose rights must be protected. Once we start narrowing the limits of free speech, who decides where to stop? Do you want an Attorney General to tell you that dancing is now illegal because he feels it is evil? Would the torture of some prisoners been stopped as quickly had it not become public knowledge? By allowing opposing and unpopular viewpoints to be heard, we are able to judge their merits and truths.

Some unpopular view ponts and ideas from history

Christianity
Women voting
Abolishing slavery
Unionism
Democratic form of government

All of these ideas were suppressed at one time or another, and all had some die for their cause.

05-11-04, 03:45 AM
FredPuli
What's wrong with that DG ? At least one of us on AP can't see what's good about any in that list.....except perhaps the last... Big Grin... and even I'm not sure about democracy except as a parodied African leader was had to say in a satire: " My critics are wrong. Me against democracy ? No. One man; one vote? Of course I am in favour of one man one vote especially for the six million black fools who voted for me !" Big Grin

05-11-04, 11:41 AM
coldfuse
As a followup up to DG's comment, popular opinion is sometimes abolished in part because we have free speech. Change is near the top of the list of things people fear, and intelligent discourse is necessary before that fear can be overcome.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,