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Originally posted by juanruiz:

"Papers, papers, vee most zee yoor papers. Der Führer demantz it." See, Fred, that is how most Americans view the idea of an identity card.

Really???? I'm amazed!

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Really???? I'm amazed!

The enormous dichotomy between the way Americans and Europeans see government is a very fertile field for comment and speculation. My own view is that Europe, dating back millenia, even to the Roman Empire, developed by viewing people as subservient to government, be it the secular monarchies or the Church, which both worked hand in hand to maintain their authority.

The Founding Fathers of the US had a distinctly jaundiced view of both; underscoring that government was to be the servant of the people, and Church was to keep its nose out of secular affairs. This has profoundly molded the American character and view. When your say the French, by law, are to always have their ID card on them, an American would respond, who the hell does the French government think it is? See, there is a disconnect there. The government has no right to order individuals to carry an ID card. Americans would see that as tyranny. Of course, the US government has been more subtle; in essence, the Social Security number serves the same purpose. You cannot legally work without one. It identifies you to your employer, the IRS, and just about all other government agencies. It really is the US national ID card, without it seeming so. And, since you have to have your infant children have one too, for your tax forms, it has become the sine qua non to exist in the US.

If you want to discuss this further, I'd be happy to participate, Fred.

jr, why do you think there is such opposition to i.d. cards in Britain ? I'm not amazed by that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mozart:
It's OK dogspit, AP will allow you to login without ID cards.

Heeeheheheeeee ! I have to use a retinal scan to sign onto the internet and show proof that I am not a Muggle.

The battle over the ID cards is really quite fun to watch. The immigration debate is truly an center stage here and I can see little problem with asking one to prove they are an American before they vote in an AMerican election... but that is just me. I fear that the debate is soon to get violent as our infamous Sheriff, Joe Arpaio not only is a belligerent and obsessive pursuer of illegal aliens, but immensely popular among his support base and incapable of toning it down or showing a reasonable amount of humility.

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Sheriff, Joe Arpaio not only is a belligerent and obsessive pursuer of illegal aliens, but immensely popular among his support base and incapable of toning it down or showing a reasonable amount of humility.

Sounds like Bull Connor.

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jr, why do you think there is such opposition to i.d. cards in Britain ?

I have been observing Britain for some number of years now. Who would have thought that Labour under Blair would become Tory? They have refused to adopt the Euro. And, I think the question of ID cards there is in line with them almost adopting a US view of the subject. Maybe they should close their border to the Yanks and their influence .

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Originally posted by juanruiz:

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jr, why do you think there is such opposition to i.d. cards in Britain ?

Maybe they should close their border to the Yanks and their influence .

Don't worry. Now Tony Blair has gone and President Bush is going, everything will be back to normal

Quick research revealed that Britain did have i.d cards until 1952

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Quick research revealed that Britain did have i.d cards until 1952

Probably important during the War. All those Cherman spies don't you know.

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Originally posted by juanruiz:

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Quick research revealed that Britain did have i.d cards until 1952

Probably important during the War. All those Cherman spies don't you know.

Absolutely. The government didn't tell us the war had ended, just in case we wondered why food rationing had got harsher and they didn't end it until 1954. There are some things that it's better for the population not to know.My uncle was still wearing his gas mask in 1958