Can one be a State Citizen, without also being a federal citizen?
Please state your source in your answer! *********************************************************** 10-12-05, 03:58 PM Georgia85 "Both before and after the Fourteenth Amendment to the federal Constitution, it has not been necessary for a person to be a citizen of the United States in order to be a citizen of his state." civil-liberties.com
I don't know if this is what you are looking for but there is a lot of information on this site that might help you.
10-12-05, 04:56 PM Paul Thank you Georgia!!
10-12-05, 07:21 PM Sarai Wow! That is really interesting! Is it only possible in theory, or have there been people in US history who have been citizens of a state in the union but not a citizen of the US?
10-12-05, 07:21 PM DorianGreyed I wouldn't place a great deal of stock in what a web site says when the same site is stating that an amendment long accepted as having been ratified is, in fact, unconstitutional. Like the tax position that is stated in the first post, it is all well and good to state that something is unconstitutional; it is quite another to prove that point. The site you link to, Georgia, even states that "The federal courts actually refuse to hear argument on the invalidity of the 14th Amendment..." which is pretty much saying that all that talk is wasted air. People can believe anything they want to believe, but this is not something that someone should bet the rent on.
10-12-05, 07:56 PM AMoore
quote: Originally posted by Sarai: Wow! That is really interesting! Is it only possible in theory, or have there been people in US history who have been citizens of a state in the union but not a citizen of the US?
It was quite possible in the early years of our country. One could have been a citizen of one of the colonies, but outside the lot of them at the founding of the nation.
I'm not certain how such a person's citizenship was handled...
Alan Moore
10-12-05, 09:22 PM honilov I don't see how this could be legal...but on the other hand, almost anything goes anymore. Sorta depends on who's in charge or who knows who, or who's doing what to whom...
10-13-05, 09:45 AM newnickname Why would you want to be a state but not a federal citizen? What advantages and disadvantages would there be?
Given the source of the quotes (ripped out of context, I'm guessing) saying it's possible, the main attraction might be avoiding paying your fair share of national taxes - but wouldn't there be a personal downside, too?
'[Channel] Islanders are full British Citizens, but not all are European Citizens. Any British citizen who applies for a passport in Jersey or Guernsey receives a passport bearing the words 'British Islands, Bailiwick of Jersey' or 'British Islands, Bailiwick of Guernsey'. Under the provisions of Protocol 3, Channel Islanders who do not have a close connection with the UK (no parent or grandparent from the UK, and have never been resident in Great Britain or Northern Ireland for any 5 year period) do not automatically benefit from the EU provisions on free movement within the EU and consequently their passports receive an endorsement to that effect. This only affects a minority of Islanders.' en.wikipedia.org
You can be in the EU, kind of, but not a citizen of the EU. You lose out, in this case.
Living in the US without being a citizen, would you still pay taxes? You'd still be benefitting from the infrastructure they support. I guess you wouldn't be able to get any national government job. Would you be allowed across state or international borders? What if someone committed a federal crime against you - who would help?
10-13-05, 10:57 AM DorianGreyed "Given the source of the quotes (ripped out of context, I'm guessing) saying it's possible, the main attraction might be avoiding paying your fair share of national taxes"
Income is taxed, regardless of the citizenship of the earner. The primary factor is the residence and length of residence in the US for non-citizens. When Robert Shaw, an Irish citizen*, I think, was making "Jaws," he had a limit on how long he could work in the US without paying income taxes. He stayed over the limit, but had a clause in his contract that paid him much more for any time past that limit. He made out fine.
"What if someone committed a federal crime against you - who would help?"
A crime is a crime, regardless of citizenship of either the accused or the victim. While some on the Right seem not to think so, the Rights given to the accused in the US Constitution also apply to anyone in the US, regardless of citizenship. That was true until the Patriot Act, which seemed to change a great deal of the Rights granted by the Constitution.
*Ireland at that time did not tax the income of artists. That may have changed in the last year. American director John Huston (b. Nevada, Mo.) was one of several US citizens who moved to Ireland and became Irish citizens. Much of his later work was not filmed in the US.
