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Picture of janus2faced
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Is the hype of security that great that the USA fears that it will lose its identity?

Homeland security, code Red, Orange whatever, the threat of terrorism will destroy the nation... what is the fear all about!

Boarder crossing, immigration controls, passports, ID seem to be a paranoia within the American government and the fear that it instills in the American and some Canadian people.

Moving 3000 miles east from North America to the EU, a community of 27 countries, a population totaling 492 million and with 23 languages, they do not appear to have the same fear about movement of people that the Americans do, nor (does it seem)do they want to poke their noses into so many hot-spots around the world.

I say let the citizens within the EU & G8 without governments spending so much taxpayer’s money on security or in sending troops to areas of the world, which they have no business being in the first place.

I propose an international passport, an extension of the EU passport that includes the G8 countries.

What say you?
 
Posts: 81 | Location: Toronto | Registered: 09-26-07Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Homeland security, code Red, Orange whatever, the threat of terrorism will destroy the nation... what is the fear all about!

Call it 'caution/precaution' instead of fear.
 
Posts: 6723 | Location: Land of Lincoln, USA | Registered: 07-04-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Call it 'caution/precaution' instead of fear


I don't know, Honi. I see it as a real paranoia in North America. When I'm in Europe, I don't sense the same level of fear that we get here in Canada, and it seems, to a greater extent in the US.
And it's not that places like the UK haven't had their share of terrorist attacks either; I lived in London during the height of the IRA bombing campaign. People were vigilant, but there was generally an attitude of just getting on with things.
In North America there is this pervasive fear, that no amount of security measures can put to rest.
 
Posts: 2876 | Location: Ontario, Canada | Registered: 10-27-06Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by dance girl:
quote:
Call it 'caution/precaution' instead of fear


When I'm in Europe, I don't sense the same level of fear that we get here in Canada, and it seems, to a greater extent in the US.
And it's not that places like the UK haven't had their share of terrorist attacks either; I lived in London during the height of the IRA bombing campaign. People were vigilant, but there was generally an attitude of just getting on with things.
In North America there is this pervasive fear, that no amount of security measures can put to rest.


It's a mindset but understandable in the USA.Britain is rather different in its experience. Quite apart from terrorism from the IRA to live through and, recently, jihadists, Britons have either lived through wartime bombing or inherited the mindset of those who have.A country that lost over a million homes to bombing with massive loss of life and with all that entails for daily existence e.g years of warnings not to leave any light visible, with wardens patrolling to ensure total 'blackout', tends not to regard a terrorist attack on an underground train as much of a risk or of great consequence overall Big Grin

On the other hand we all, consciously or not, are very 'security aware'. For example,for over thirty years in Britain it's been the practice never to leave a bag or packet unattended here in any public places of any kind, from pubs to railway stations and trains.If you have a bag you stick with it and keep it with you, not even walking off for a few seconds. That's not for fear of theft but because 'it's not the done thing'.It's considered anti-social.It puts others to trouble.It's not the done thing because an unattended packet or bag might have been left by a bomber.And, as a matter of course, someone else will ask about it and unless they are satisfied e.g the pub staff find the customer who left it or know who did then it'll be reported to police and removed. If it's unattended at a railway station it'll be removed within moments, reported or not: there are staff to ensure so.(My own favourite instance was a railway man removing my luggage trolley even though it had a dog tied to it!)

It's unlikely, methinks, that any American thinks like that. So there's no 'paranoia' here, in that we don't live anxiously, but there is a marked awareness. So life goes on.
 
Posts: 8737 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Koz
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“Moving 3000 miles east from North America to the EU, a community of 27 countries, a population totaling 492 million and with 23 languages, they do not appear to have the same fear about movement of people that the Americans do, nor (does it seem)do they want to poke their noses into so many hot-spots around the world.”


What makes you think Americans are afraid to move around? Americans love to travel within and outside of the borders of The United States and do it often. Geographically America is large and there are more diverse landscapes here than in Europe. I see no need for an international passport.

As for Europe not seeming to want to poke their noses into so many hot spots across the world, they learned their lesson after two massive wars within the last 100 years or so Wink . England and other countries of Europe used to love sticking their noises into other countries business and trying to force them into their way of thinking; even by war if necessary.

Less than 86 years ago one quarter of the earth’s population were under the rule of The British Empire. Go back further than that and The British Empire was even larger. Portions of North America, Africa, The Caribbean, Australia and even the Middle East were ruled by the empire.

The British poked their noses into other countries business for hundreds, and hundreds of years. It took them a long time, but they finally learned that it was not the best thing to do.

After World War II The United Kingdom was economically exhausted. The “new kid on the block” (United States of America) and her allies would no longer sit by and accept British colonization. Being a smart people the British decided that their time would be better spent rebuilding its merchant fleet and using its resources to repair the damaged infrastructure to their homeland than to try to recapture or maintain their massive colonial holdings throughout the globe.

Now with the United Kingdom no longer willing or able to poke their noses in other countries business as much somebody had to take over the role so the new power of America decided to give it a go.

A pretty huge leap for a country that a mere 5-6 years before was not involved in the war in Europe (other than helping supply her friends Wink ) and had one of the smallest standing militaries of any industrialized nation at the time.

The United States will learn unfortunately much like the British Empire did; the hard way. When America is no longer the “big kid on the block” some other country will step in and fill those shoes you can be assured of that. The Soviet Union tried, but could not compete with the economic might of America. They are reorganizing now after the collapse of the Soviet Union and Russia is worth watching. But it will be many years before they could be taken seriously in that role.

Keep your eye on the economic juggernaut of China. They are expanding rapidly within their borders and sooner of later will look outside. Be cautious because The Chinese are coming Eek !

quote:
“It's unlikely, methinks, that any American thinks like that. So there's no 'paranoia' here, in that we don't live anxiously, but there is a marked awareness. So life goes on.”


Not true Fred. I don’t know what information you are getting over there but over on this side of the pond we aren’t running around all paranoid and nervous all the time. Life goes on. We are no stranger to terrorist attacks either. Maybe we don’t have the resume of you guys , but we are no stranger to them.

We are learning a great deal from England and are taking those lessons to heart. As of a couple of months ago (when it was officially announced) the whole of Lower Manhattan is now under 24/7 video surveillance. Many portions of Midtown are too and we are working our way up to being able to monitor the whole city. Many train, bus, airports and subway stations are under surveillance too, but they won’t divulge exactly where is until of course it all is being watched Wink . Even many of the trains and busses themselves have surveillance equipment in them.

The “ if you see something say something ” campaign has been working out rather well here too. Not paranoia but in today’s world if a package is left unattended it won’t be there for long I can assure you of that. People are helping people in droves.

My bride has to commute to her company's headquarters about 2-3 times a week nowadays. It is right in the heart of Times Square and she commutes via the Long Island Railroad (Largest commuter railroad in the world) into Manhattan and then hops on the subway to get across town. While there she has to travel all around Manhattan for meetings. Millions and millions of people go about their daily business quite diligently. “Marked awareness” here too, life goes on.

One of the advantages that England has is you folks don’t have that pesky Constitution to worry about when you guys set up surveillance shops. We have to work our way around that one here Wink .
 
Posts: 3713 | Location: Long Island, New York USA | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I agree, Koz, I don't see any paranoia in anyone.
I think most Americans are going about their daily lives without fear of terrorists. I think the Europeans and others are seeing things that aren't there.
 
Posts: 3165 | Location: From the Mountains to the Sea. | Registered: 06-08-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by Koz:

One of the advantages that England has is you folks don’t have that pesky Constitution to worry about when you guys set up surveillance shops. We have to work our way around that one here Wink .


What's a Constitution? Some damn strange French thing, I expect Roll Eyes

British people accept surveillance readily.Without it we'd have had a hard time detecting the terrorists who tried to bomb the underground trains or backtrack the movements of those earlier who succeeded, right from their arrival at a railway station through the journey and right down to one being on a bus.

It goes much further than detecting terrorists though. The cameras are everywhere. We reckon to be on camera 300 times a day in our cities.There are so many that they feature largely in the hunt for abductors of children and other serious criminals.Chances are that the perpetrator will be on camera before after and often during the offence.

The latest wheeze is that local authorities in some towns have cameras with loudspeakers.There, for example,as soon as someone drops litter the screen observer tells them to stop and pick it up !Now, that is like Big Brother Big Grin

Fox News made great play this week of a statement from the State Department warning Americans to be very aware and telling them of the danger of future terrorist attacks in Europe and elsewhere.Fox News followed this with an interview with some security expert who explained that the main risk to Americans at home lay with home-grown jihadists attacking public places of resort like clubs or trains, not another 9/11 That did tend to suggest that Americans were not yet quite as sanguine as they might be. No such broad statement would be issued here and we certainly don't need to be told about dangerous locals. It would, unfortunately, be stating the obvious Frown

UK CCTV etc
 
Posts: 8737 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I don't know, Honi. I see it as a real paranoia in North America. When I'm in Europe, I don't sense the same level of fear that we get here in Canada, and it seems, to a greater extent in the US.
In North America there is this pervasive fear, that no amount of security measures can put to rest.

I still say it's just being cautious instead of being fearful. We'll being cautious because of the if's, maybe's, or could-be'.

It's reminds me of how we wear seat belts, it's not because we fear we're gonna have a collision, we're just being cautious. Same with smoke detectors, we're not fearing our house will catch on fire. I know these might not compare but I just want you to get my drift? Smile
 
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Six years of investigations and prosecutions have turned up little evidence of Islamic jihadists at work in the United States, according to a study released Monday

The study found only four people -- including confessed al Qaeda operative Zacarias Moussaoui and "shoe bomber" Richard Reid -- were convicted of planning attacks within the United States.

"The vast majority of cases turn out to include no link to terrorism once they go to court," the report found. The analysis "suggests the presence of few, if any, prevalent terrorist threats currently within the U.S." - CNN
 
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