quote:

Originally posted by Elexina:
Maybe. If I knew that the future would be wonderfuller and better and brighter if this person died, maybe. If they had grievously injured someone I love and hadn’t been brought to justice, maybe. But if they’re just an annoying jackalope, maybe I could just talk them out of being stupid?

Elexina, would you kill Hitler when he was a child if you knew what he was about to do?

quote:

Originally posted by Koz: If you figure out how to do that please share

Oh, did I forget to mention my superpower? I am Convincing Girl! Da-da-dum!! I wish.

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Originally posted by SeattleRon: Elexina, would you kill Hitler when he was a child if you knew what he was about to do?

If I couldn't use my excellent debating skills and talk him out of it. As a child, he would still have been impressionable enough to sway.
IF I knew that nothing I could say would change him and IF I knew that eliminating him wouldn't cause some other catastrophe in the future, then yes. I would. Probably.

quote:

Originally posted by Elexina:

quote:

Originally posted by SeattleRon: Elexina, would you kill Hitler when he was a child if you knew what he was about to do?

If I couldn't use my excellent debating skills and talk him out of it. As a child, he would still have been impressionable enough to sway.
IF I knew that nothing I could say would change him and IF I knew that eliminating him wouldn't cause some other catastrophe in the future, then yes. I would. Probably.

Elexina, that leads us into a whole other debate; that of nature versus nurture.
Hitler wasn't, by all accounts, a 'normal' child either. Could he have grown up to be a different human being if he hadn't suffered the abuse he did? Were the psychotic traits he displayed in childhood and early adulthood, a result of the way he was raised, or innate qualities of his personality?
Does one sacrafice a life for fear of the damage to humanity that person might do? It's a really difficult ethical dilemma, albeit a hypothetical one.

Killing Hitler when he was a kid wouldn't change much. Europe was way overpopulated and had been in and out of economic crises since the 1890's, and some demagogue would have come along and told some European nation that they didn't have a fair share of the African and Asian colonies, Britain was hogging them, and they also had...

... the dreaded enemy within! This would be a ready-made tool to attack his party's political enemies within his own nation. (cf. Sen. McCarthy in the U.S. and his anti-communist crusade)

It's all about expectations. In a lot of peasant countries, all people expect is food, clothing and shelter. But in North America and Western Europe, we expect our own home, a vacation home with motorized pleasure crafts, a car for everyone over sixteen in the family, university education and prospects for a 'good' career for each of our kids and our grandchildren.

These expectations cause a lot of very silly things to happen:

-- people playing the stock market when they don't understand it
-- people unable to deal with the stress in their lives, and consequently doing very destructive things
-- people beginning to think of other people -- their children and spouses, for example -- as status symbols, and who must act accordingly
-- people who bring in immigrants to do the house- and yard-work and child-care tasks, and the civic infrastructure tasks that they themselves think are beneath them and their children, and then acting surprised when these immigrants want the American Dream, too. In America it's mostly Latinos and in Europe it's mostly Muslim North Africans and Melanesians that come in, and then expect equality under the law and expect the host nations to give them special rights e.g. laws grounded in their religion.

And so on. This situation is bound to find a demagogue who will point to a group and blame them for the nation's ills.

The genocide which has become endemic in Africa is the result of this kind of dynamic. Idi Amin Dada in Uganda, singling out the Indians, other nations where a tribe was victimized.

It is the social problems, such as overpopulation, that cause these events. There will always be some ruthless and ambitious person ready to exploit them.

If you want to help in Africa, stop the pope. (He won't let aid groups distribute free condoms.) If you want to help at home, curb your greed, and live simply. And don't vote for demagogues.

quote:

Originally posted by babthrower:
and in Europe it's mostly Muslim North Africans and Melanesians that come in, and then expect equality under the law and expect the host nations to give them special rights e.g. laws grounded in their religion.

Melanesians ? From which places? Papua New Guinea? Fiji? Vanuatu...? Or was that a typo for Malaysians?

Oops! You're right, Fred. Another senior moment for babthrower!

No, I have no one in mind that I would kill. However, there's a few butts I'd love to kick.

New thread! New thread! Butts I'd love to kick!

quote:

Originally posted by babthrower:
New thread! New thread! Butts I'd love to kick!

then hit it up babthrower, I'd love to see what I can do against you.

I just want to say this, before I leave this thread alone. The gangsters I stuck around with were deep, and it took everything for me to leave.
they were all over the place, and yes I did make money with them.
What I do know is there is no loyalty, they press on with everything. You're no longer safe.
When you leave a gang or "family" you have to watch your back.
I left correct at 19 about to turn 20, before the new year. I worked 3 weeks basically without them knowing I was trying to leave.
Gave them money and said I was leaving to take care of my family.
I got a handshake and some shots of booze and was sent on my way, and was said if I needed anything go to them, but I was still nervous as hell.
I trust them only because........they've actually just hung around and tossed me some bail money sometimes, but that was 2 and a half years ago.
I'm no longer a "G". I'm 100% legit.
They don't involve me in nothing no more ya know.
The ones that been down still show up at my house a lot and we party.

I do realize being around them could get me into a problem, but I know they would have my back too.
And the worst they do at my house is take their damn cars and park around almost ruin my grass.

So there you go..

Would I kill someone....Only in a gentlemanly way. you have to look at them in their face...

The majority of gangsters are really cowards, if you got them one on one they would probably mess their pants. They need a large group behind them to really be bad a##es.

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Originally posted by Scotty:
The majority of gangsters are really cowards, if you got them one on one they would probably mess their pants.

Scotty, forgive me if I don't give it a try, your advice notwithstanding (Just my luck to find the exception, or the bloke who thinks he's still got his mates with him when he hasn't !)

quote:

Scotty, forgive me if I don't give it a try, your advice notwithstanding (Just my luck to find the exception, or the bloke who thinks he's still got his mates with him when he hasn't !)

I understand, Fred.

Scotty thats half true.
I could remember a time or two when I was in colors and someone started with me. I was all alone and I would throw down.
The thing people don't understand about gangs is you have to be ready anytime anywhere, alone or with the g's and go.

When you're in a cell in jail you have no choice either, but to throw down. You have to be tough man. someone goes up to you in there you have to do it.
I remember one time I was sharing a drunk tank of course, and there was 9 other dudes in they're all mexican, and they knew what i was.
they left me alone because of my tats.
they knew my crew was in their neighborhood dealing drugs and stuff. so they left me alone.


Scotty I do agree with you though, I was young and stupid. Didn't realize what I was getting myself into at the time. All I saw was money money money, and I didn't care how I got it.
I been shot, stabbed, and nearly dead. I should be dead by now. I do agree the life isn't fun. I comitted a lot of crimes back in the day.
All the things I done, will take a lifetime to be forgiven. I go to church every sunday since 2001 and light candles, attend the sermons.
I feel like a piece of crap for the things I did. I still have nightmares. I don't wish that kind of childhood or life for anybody, and anyone who chooses that life is obviously without a mentor. Wish I had one.
What set me off? They cut my soccer program, they cut my orchestra program, and they cut my computer program.
I had nothing to do after school. I was pissed off. I was like **** I cried a lot.
Only thing that started me straight was wrestling, but by then I was already smoking weed,cigarettes. I was already in you know.
Wrestling led me to popularity, popularity led me to parties, parties led me to get boosted and boosted high up.
Man I was a gangster! I took cocaine and smoked weed before matches, I won championship after championship.
Before you know it I was dealing in the school,
dealing outside and getting high up there, everybody wanted Bigkron's stuff.
I blew up dropping pounds of marijuana everywhere in kitsap and snohomish county.

Still doing that became too much, so I dropped out at 9th grade.
I dealt hardcore, I was everywhere. You wanted good stuff go to me.

I kept getting busted and shook down, and thats where it leaves off.

I wokeup and saw the light, but I still look over my shoulder sometimes.

If there is one thing I can say to you folks.
It's not worth it. The money comes quick, I never had cars, I only rolled in a CRX, that got confiscated, after that I rolled in a Honda Civic. I did jail time several times. I have bullet wounds and one still stuck in my leg. I have a stab wound.

All I have to show for it all....All of it??
a damn hyundai,3 friends, and my life....

Don't join gangs, and don't do drugs.....

Ron, as long as all that's in your past, and you've learned from it, it's okay. So many gangsters never learn. You could be a spokesman to the younger kids to deter them from joining gangs. You still need to lighten up off your drinking because that can get you in trouble, too.

Keep going to church, and with enough faith, you'll be good as new. You're not there yet, though. People would be surprised at how God's grace and mercy can get them through.

I am glad that you have turned your life around, Ron. Keep up the good work.

thank you scotty and honilov.
I won't be doing any public service anytime soon, but I just hope the message stays out there.

My message is pretty much this...

"Be Careful."

It's not a case of getting away with it, as the original topic began, or the motivation behind it.

Self defense is not getting away with anything, it is just that, self defense.

I am not capable of killing anyone, case closed.

"Revenge is a dish best served cold"

roogalator,
you'll never know what you're capable of until you're pushed to the limit bud.
Believe me, when you have a strap in your hand,
baby there is no telling about the effort it takes. It won't take much baby....It's effortless.
I'm surprised my ass is still alive bud...

I used to hear people say all you gotta do is just squeeze....Or say things like the first ones hard,you might puke, after that it gets easy.

I used to know some hard people. I myself was never down for a 187, but I knew people. Scary people.
Original Question, Could I? If I had to, it wouldn't be a problem. Would I think about it afterwards? For about 10 minutes. Would I care?
No...not for a minute.....