i doubt there is any relationship between pyramids of different cultures. of course, they may have been astronomically significant, but then again, astronomy (and perhaps astrology?) were respected and believed in (and sometimes still are!) *think stonehenge* anyhow, i think their shape is that of a pyramid because any other shape would have been incoceivable. could it have been square? not really...because a) square is dull b) harder to construct. i dont think of a higher purpose in all that.
The one theory I have heard a lot about, which even I'll admit it rather far fetched, relies on the report of an Ancient Greek (who's name of course I can't remember because I need to remember it!) who claims to have visited where Atlantis had been (obviously after its destruction). This was the same person who's reports on Troy were proven true.
He described the location of Atlantis in such exacting detail that it was possible for anthropologists to determine where it would have been. And structural evidence has been found in that area.
The idea is that when Atlantis sank - due to the same type of volcanic activity as Vesuvius - just a whole lot earlier - the population took off in boats and rebuilt their societies where ever they landed.
Some of the evidence for this is the similarities in the religions and work of the Mayans, the Incas, and the Egyptians. The newest evidence in all three areas also places the genesis of the pyramid idea in all three cultures around the same time. Also, there was an abrupt change in the arts and sciences - HUGE leaps forward - at the same time in all three societies.
The odds of these things happening independantly - all three societies developing the same things at the same time without contact with one another was given at like 1:1 000 000 000.
Posts: 784 | Location: Fairbanks, AK, USA | Registered: 08-17-02
Pyramids are self-supporting structures. As such, these would be the natural shapes for early civilizations to build. Put simply: They built them because they could.
Constellations
The Constellations will look the same for all people all around the world. The only difference is that they will appear upside down in the Southern Hemisphere as compared to someone seeing them in the Northern Hemisphere. Otherwise they appear the exact same, in a point for point fashion, anywhere on the Earth. Even if you traveled to Pluto the Constellations would not appear to change due to their vast distance from Earth.
Ancient peoples naturally looked to the stars-probably more so than many people today. And since they all looked the same everywhere, any similarity of pyramid alignment that may be based on Constellations between differing cultures would be easily explained. Just as all humans have the same facial features, then all representations of human beings from cave drawings to papyrus depictions to computer simulations will have similar appearances. A very natural tendency is for humans to reproduce what they see.
Atlantis
I don't know where the author of that website got their faulty information, but precisely one, and only one, person (either in ancient Greece or anywhere else in the ancient world) wrote about Atlantis. That was Plato. No one else. Period. No one in Greece or Egypt or anywhere else wrote about Atlantis or the Atlantis-Athens War mentioned in the Plato story.
The story of Atlantis appears in two of Plato's dialogues, Timaeus and Critias (named for characters within each story). Even many of the real life participants within other Plato dialogues did not live at the same time, so their use was for purely story-telling purposes only. This was a common Plato plot device. He told stories-even made-up ones--to make a point, just as all other human beings do.
Atlantis, as told by Plato, was not the utopian society that many claim-they clearly have not read the dialogues. The more perfect state within the Atlantis myth was Athens. And archeologists know for a fact that the 11,600-year-old Athens described in the Atlantis myth simply did not exist. However, according to the fictional account of this particular Plato story, Athens was smaller, weaker, poorer and didn't have much of the technology (such as it was) that the mythical Atlantis had. But Athens had one thing Atlantis didn't have. They had morals. Athens was good. Atlantis was bad. And the smaller, weaker and militarily inferior rag tag band from Athens was able to defeat the mighty, yet evil Atlantis due to the Athenian's superior ethics. If this sounds familiar, go see Star Wars sometime. George Lucas didn't steal the story from Plato, it is just such a common subject among human storytellers-especially in fiction. This also just happened to be Plato's political philosophy. You can see this same theme (but not any mention of Atlantis) in his most famous work, the Republic.
Archeologists, geologists, anthropologists, and every other scientific discipline recognize that Atlantis simply did not and cannot exist. Even if it did (which it didn't) continents don't sink. They are not just floating on the water!
Also, look at a map of the world sometime. Notice how the continents appear to be puzzle pieces that have been moved apart? Mentally move them back together and you will see how they fit together as they once did before eons of plate tectonics slowly separated them. The mere fact that each "side" almost perfectly fits within each other goes to prove that no other lost continent was ever between them.
Atlantis makes a good story, just as Star Wars does. But both are fictional devices used to tell a story and make a point about the nature of good versus evil. Neither one is science.
JG Quote: The Constellations will look the same for all people all around the world. The only difference is that they will appear upside down in the Southern Hemisphere as compared to someone seeing them in the Northern Hemisphere. ..................................................
How could the people in the Southern Hemisphere possibly see the constellations in the Northern sky? Doesn't the earth get in the way?
First of all, the constellations do not look the same to everyone on Earth. I can guarantee that with personal experience. Back home in NY Orion is big in September, clear, and looks like a hunter. Over here in Alaska, he's farther looking away, kind of hard to make out, and looks like he's leaning a bit to the side. If I didn't know it was Orion, I wouldn't have guessed.
Secondly, John, they have found structures in the Atlantic near Italy. If you look on a map, you can see where there is a chunk that should there. Also, no one is saying it sunk. I said there was a volcanic eruption. This coupled with the subsequent earthquakes that generally follow huge eruptions would be more than enough to break off pieces of a small island nation. They have found evidence of what would have been an island in the same area I mentioned, too - an underwater mountain.
Thirdly, Plato was not the only person to mention Atlantis. I know that much from watching lame-o Discovery specials alone, let alone a National Geographic article a few months back. They have found references to a nation in that area - off the coast of Italy where the ruins have been found, in other ruins that would have been populated at the same time as Atlantis.
Now, I don't know if it existed or not, but I do know that you can't simply disregard the information out of hand. 'Every' anthropologist doesn't agree with you as you stated...some anthropologists are diving around the ruins right now.
Please keep in mind that the man who found Troy was called a lunatic by mainstream anthropologists who said it was just a myth.
Posts: 784 | Location: Fairbanks, AK, USA | Registered: 08-17-02
quote:Originally posted by frankvan: How could the people in the Southern Hemisphere possibly see the constellations in the Northern sky? Doesn't the earth get in the way?
Quote from Philip Plait Ph.D, from the physics and astronomy dept of Sonoma State University and author of the book (and web site of the same name)Bad Astronomy, "To someone standing in the southern hemisphere, the constellations will look upside down compared to the view of someone standing in the northern hemisphere. The curvature of the Earth does this, making one person look like he is 'standing on his head' realitive to another." Page 180.
quote:Originally posted by displacedNyer: Secondly, John, they have found structures in the Atlantic near Italy...
Oh, well I guess that proves it! That proves every single thing in Plato's story to be 100% true, not to mention every modern piece of fluff TV on Atlantis is 100% true! (I feel I need to clarify that I am being sarcastic about this!)
They found some human footprints and a bag up around the North Pole! Not only that, but there really are reindeer up there! And snow! So I guess that is conclusive proof for Santa Claus and every single story about him! (Once again: Sarcasm!)
quote:Originally posted by displacedNyer: ...Plato was not the only person to mention Atlantis. I know that much from watching lame-o Discovery specials alone, let alone a National Geographic article a few months back.
Please provide names of any other ancient author that wrote about Atlantis and where they wrote it.
quote:Originally posted by displacedNyer: 'Every' anthropologist doesn't agree with you as you stated...
You are correct. What I should have said was, "Every reputable scientist does not believe Atlantis ever existed."
quote:Originally posted by displacedNyer: Please keep in mind that the man who found Troy was called a lunatic by mainstream anthropologists who said it was just a myth.
This is a variation of the "They Laughed at the Wright Brothers" fallacy. What the Wright Brothers and the person who discovered Troy (Heinrich Schliemann, is his name by the way) is that they came through. They provided proof for what they claimed.
Those who seek Atlantis have not provided proof. And trust me, finding some relics here and there around the world (or evenunder water) does not proove Plato's Atlantis.
It was fiction. Face it.
[This message was edited by JohnGalt on 09-18-02 at 11:31 AM.]
a side topic, but one that there seems to be a lot of confusion about: visibility of the constellations from different points on the earth. It is NOT as simple as just standing on your head to see the same things. If you are far enough south, you won't see the north star, the big dipper, or several other constellations. Similarly, if you are far enough north, you will not see the southern cross and several other constellations. Some, but not all, constellations are visible from both hemispheres. these constellations are the ones that appear towards the southern portion of the sky when you are in the northern hemisphere and towards the northern portion of the sky when you are in the southern hemisphere.
from a NASA web site (people who know a thing or two about stars): "Of course there are things observers in the Southern Hemisphere can see that we can't here north of the Equator and vise-versa. " http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/scienceques2001/20020322.htm
All I have to say, John, is Troy was a myth, too. The least an intelligent thinking person could do is consider evidence providing a possibility. The more black and white one sees the world, clearly the less that person is able to understand the world.
I have never once said that Atlantis existed. I said its possible. Just like its possible you may take a deep breath and calm down before you respond to this post.
Posts: 784 | Location: Fairbanks, AK, USA | Registered: 08-17-02
Yes it was a myth, until a decent quality of evidence proved otherwise. Such paradigm shifts are expected and welcomed in the world of science.
The least an intelligent thinking person can do is wait for evidence. And based on the nature and quality of that evidence, then the theory can move from (in this case) a highly unlikely possibility to (at least) probable. As of now, that evidence has not been offered up.
It's possible that every bit of evidence, eyewitness and photograph of a round Earth is wrong and that we really live on a flat Earth.
However:
It's not very probable that the above scenario is the case, but it falls so far outside the realm of possibility, that a rational person can state with some degree of assurance that the Earth is not flat.
Likewise...
It's possible that every bit of evidence in every single scientific discipline that proves there never was a large continent in the area Plato claimed is somehow wrong--and all wrong in the exact same direction, at that!
However:
It's not very probable that the above scenario is the case, but it falls so far outside the realm of possibility, that a rational person can state with some degree of assurance that there was not a continent there.
I am familiar with the theory that three of the pyramids in Egypt are aligned with Orion's belt. This is not too incredible of an assertion and it does not contradict existing known physical laws. So it can be considered as possible or even probable. (I personally think it is true) I have not heard about other cultures' pyramids also appearing to mimic Orion's belt (or other constellations). But if they did, as I pointed out, the stars do not appear to move closer together or farther apart depending on where on Earth a person (or culture) looks at those stars. So cultures that could see the same constellations saw the same stars in the same point for point alignment. So if cultures did erect their structures to imitate what they saw in the night sky, it would not require any "Atlantis theory of genesis".
A person might as well advance the theory that Elvis (after he faked his death) built a time machine, went back in time to each culture in question, and became their King and told them how and where to build their pyramids. Any evidence for this theory is slight and of poor quality (just as is the evidence for the Atlantis theory). And like the Atlantis theory, it introduces so many extra and unneeded variables that it flies in the face of Occam's Razor.
I keep and open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out.
and told them how and where to build their pyramids. Any evidence for this theory is slight and of poor quality (just as is the evidence for the Atlantis theory). And like the Atlantis theory, it introduces so many extra and unneeded variables that it flies in the face of Occam's Razor.
