Check your water level in the radiator, it's probably very low. If there are no visible leaks, the water's liokely getting into the cylinders. Bright white smoke is a sure sign of a blown head gasket. Do not operate the car until you can get it looked at! Continued operation will wreck the engine.
10-15-03, 10:32 AM Walks On Water I have to agree with the previous answers. Water "Smoke" is white like steam while oil smoke, whither it is trans. oil or crankcase oil, will be blue or gray.
Wife had a Subaru one time that did indeed have a head gasket leak. These newer engines have aluminum head which are subject to warpage causing head gasket leaks. This is especially true if you have ever overheated the engine. If you think you have in the past, there is your answer.
If you find that is the problem, don't just replace the gasket. Have the heads check for True. This checks them so you know they are not warped. If you just replace the gasket, it will blow out again at the same spot. Been there, done that. Now trying to help others so they don't.
PS, this can also cause your "Weired Rattle" sound when you step on the gas as the cylinder that has the leak may be missing or knocking.
10-15-03, 10:14 PM Tree Thank you all for your replies!
Yes. That was a great link, Sher!
I saw the mechanic after work who told me that one cylinder had water in it, one cylinder had oil in it.
He said it produced "blue" smoke - which I have NEVER witnessed yet - only "white" smoke.
He said it's not superficial, but in the core now, and my engine is failing. He said that they removed a litre and 1/2 of oil because it was THAT much over-filled!!!! How could that be? I take it in for regular oil changes at a reputable company! They were hoping that THAT was the cause of my car's problem, but apparently, not!
I have to draw the line now - no more money for fixing up this car and time to get a new one. He said it will merely cease up eventually - be it 1 month or four or six.....
Frown
10-16-03, 06:31 AM Walks On Water Not sure about being over filled. Water gets in to the crankcase and oil is lighter the water. This will cause the oil to look over filled. Still bad any way you look at it. Still probably just a head gasket and may be having the heads machined.
Head gasket can leak oil in to a cylinder, water in to the crank case or both. Both oil and water can foul the plug keeping it from firing and not burn off the oil.
Check a couple of other mechanics. Don't wait to long if your hoping to save this car.
One more item. You stated that your transmission fluid was low. I am wondering if, at an oil change, they may have put tranny fluid in the crankcase oil dip stick tube while thinking they were "Topping Off" your tranny. Hummmm. Dumb mistake but can happen.
Of course all these replies are with out seeing the car and are made strictly on previous experience.
10-17-03, 02:11 PM gerry I noticed too when my engine failed from overheating that the oil appearead way overfilled, apparently because there was water in there and the oil floated to the top. I wouldn't put a nickel into this car, I tried to fix mine up with a new water pump, new radiator, and ultimately a new engine, and $4500 and 4 months later, the same overheat problems developed again and this time I junked it for good, even though I still owed money on it, and bought a used car in fair shape for less than a grand. That baby lasted me about 8 months, that works out to $125 per month in lieu of new or late model car payments in the $250 range or more, less insurance costs, less excise taxes, and less worry. I intend to get another decent older car for $800, and hope she lasts for a year, that will be a real bargain, and as soon as something major goes, I'll dump her and start over again.
10-18-03, 12:50 PM Tree OMG, gerry! That's awful! That sure is a big whack of money out the window!
I'm still puzzled over which way I should handle this. New car, used car, leased car... Confused
10-27-03, 10:32 PM Tree HEY! Is there some way that the tranny fluid is getting into my oil??? Making it seem overfilled? Would THIS produce the "white" smoke?
Where does my transmission fluid go to burn out the back of my car??
I'm starting to doubt what the garage people told me!
I'm going crazy!!! Confused
10-28-03, 06:42 AM Walks On Water Tree, second opinions are always in order when you're talking $$$$$$ and even thirds.
As far as I know, there is no way for tranny fluid (oil) to get in to your engine.
You noticed I said OIL. All oils that I know of in cars will burn off with a blue to black smoke. Water, even with the normal amount of anti-freeze will "Steam" off as a white smoke.
I say this with 30 years of being around race cars. I don't much about Subaru or your particular problem as I am not there to see it. Sometimes I can tell the differaance between Tranny and engine oil, depending on the brand and type, by the smell as it is burnt. I can always tell oil from water/anti-freeze and so can you. If the engine is leaking water/anti-freeze in to the combustion chamber, you can smell the anti-freeze in the exhaust fumes.
If you are lossing tranny fluid, you may have a seal leak. 2 seals. Input shaft from the engine to the tranny and output shaft from the drive shaft unless this is front wheel drive which is my bet for a Subaru. then you 2 output shafts. One for each front wheel.
Opps, Subaru! 4 wheel drive. 1 more going to the rear differential. I think.
Did your garage do a "Cooling System Leak Down Test". They pressurize the cooling system with a hand pump and watch a gage to see if it is dropping pressure. This will show up a leak faster with the engine cold. As it heats up, metal parts expand and close off small leaks.
If I had your car here, it would so simple. Care to come across the boarder to Cleveland, OH.?
10-28-03, 10:18 PM Tree Thank you WoW!
It's silly of me to think that my car problems could be solved here! You've been around cars for years, and I completely value your input! Although, like you mention, it's tough to diagnose without LOOKING at the car.
I've been to Cleveland before, so I know the way. Please expect me sometime in early November. Wink
11-01-03, 06:55 PM Tractor Hey There Tree,
Sorry to hear about your mechanical ailments. You asked whether or not it was possible for your trans fluid to be getting into your engine crankcase. I can't see this happening under most conditions. It is, however, possible for the trans fluid to enter your engine's combustion chambers. I have only come across this once in the past but it is interesting to note that the vehicle involved was also a Subaru of about the same vintage as yours.
What had happened was that the transmission cooler (inside the rad) had a tiny split in a seam from when the engine had gotten hot once. The fluid pump in the trans puts out a lot of pressure and when the car was cold it was pumping the trans fluid thru this tiny split and into the rad. The fluid leak stopped when the metal of the trans cooler got warm with running and "swelled" shut.
But in your case it sounds like you also have an engine head or head gasket problem. This may also be case of a block gone out of alignment. Most of these problems are (as has been previously mentioned) caused by engine overheating. Older Subarus are well known for their cooling systems and you shouldn't be surprised if this is the bug that has bitten you. Coolant entering the combustion chambers would also explain why you are not noticing a higher coolant (rad water) level and if the head IS leaking into the crankcase...there's your extra oil!
Let us know what your second opinion has to say before you make any major (read: EXPENSIVE!) decisions. There are a still a couple of options available to you which aren't too hard on your pocketbook.
[This message was edited by Tractor on 11-01-03 at 07:04 PM.]
11-01-03, 10:42 PM Tree Thanks a bunch for your input, Tractor.
I'm going to print this entire thread and make zillions of copies and hand them around to people who may know someone who knows someone who is a mechanic.......There are several solid ideas here to remedy my problem - I HOPE!
I agree with Wow, that it's difficult to solve a problem such as this without viewing the car, in question, but....should be interesting.
Thank you ALL! I'll let you know what happens. Wink
11-02-03, 12:08 PM Tractor Actually, I can help you there too...
If you want a dead straight honest answer as to what your Subaru's problem or problems truly are, there is a place not far from you where you can feel confident in going to.
Saunders Subaru (1784 Island Hwy. ph. 474-2211) will tell you exactly what all has gone awry. They have an excellent reputation for not only being thorough, but also for being upfront and honest. Rob Saunders won't tolerate anything less. His service dept. is on the CAA's list of "Preferred Auto Service Centers" and old Robbo will do whatever it takes to keep it there. And yes, I know they are somewhat expensive but you're only after a correct diagnosis right now. DO NOT AUTHORIZE ANY MAJOR WORK AT THIS TIME!
And if it should come to pass that your engine is officially "KAHOOPTEYED!", don't make any quick decisions (in spite of what Rob's sales staff might then try to tell you) because I've still got a couple of aces in the hole for you.
Lemme know what transpires.
11-02-03, 01:26 PM Tree OMG Tractor!!!!
I've had all of my warranty work done through Saunders! Afer the warranty expired, I just went "wherever".
That's tooooo funny! Bob Saunders used to be a social member of our golf club - and sent all kinds of customers over for a complimenary lunch. He's a great guy!
I LIKE this suggestion and I think I'll give them a call this week! Wink
11-02-03, 07:52 PM Tractor So Tree, what is his name?
Bob or Rob? I've heard him called by both names. Tell him I said hi if you see him!
11-02-03, 09:18 PM Tree His name is Bob. I'll say hi to him from Tractor! LOL!! That is SOOOO funny that you recommended them! Sheesh, they're a family business and merely 5 minutes from my work! Wink
11-04-03, 02:15 AM Tractor No need to say "Tractor", just give him my real first name. The company name is Nova West...he'll know who you mean.
All that being said, be sure to let me know what the verdict is on your Subaru. If it's worst case scenario, and there aren't any other major problems with the car, I'll call in a couple of favors owed if need be.
11-05-03, 10:25 PM Tree The BEST news!!!
They told me that my car needed the modulator valve replaced and a seal (1/2 hr labour). I asked how much and he said 40.00 for the modulator, 2.00 for the seal and 67.00 labour!!!!!!! I said HU????? That's IT????????? The entire bill with tax came to 126.83 !!!!!!!! I need another couple of things done, but they didn't have the part in stock and said to make another appointment in the near future for that (oil pressure sender is leaking oil) - so another similar bill and it will ALL be done!! I THOUGHT I WAS LOOKING AT 2,000.00 OR MORE!!!! I was absolutely thrilled. They washed and vacuumed my car to boot! HIGHLY recommended.
I mentioned your name, Tractor, and Bob said to say "hi" to YOU too!! He's such a nice guy!
PS thanks for all of those who told me to get a second opinion. I was ready to cave!
Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
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