We have a situation, wondering what to do now about our apartment. I'm going to start at the very beginning in order to give a full picture.

My husbands grandparents, bought about 35-40 years ago a vacation apartment in Jerusalem for 50 thousand dollars. Later, when their daughter got married, they gave her the apartment with a condition attached. That even though the apartment would be in both my husband's mother and father's name, if anything would happen to my husbands mother before my husbands father, my husbands father would guarantee that the apartment would go to their children, i.e. my husband and any siblings he may have.( this was before my husband was born.)

Now this could have two definitions, either, that my father in law would keep the apartment until he passed away, and then my husband would inherit it, or that as soon as my mother in law passed away, the apartment would go to my husband. I think it's important to point out, that my husband only has one sibling, a sister. She is special ed, and because the gov't has spent a lot on her education, anything significant of value that she owns, will go to the gov't. So my husband is the only one who can inherit the apartment.

A couple of years later, my mother and father in law, decided to sell the apartment in the Palmach neighborhood, and buy an apartment in Ramot. They sold the apartment in Palmach for 57 thousand dollars, and took out a mortgage on the one in Ramot. and continued paying a mortgage on the apartment until they left it. I don't know how much that apartment was worth, and it doesn't matter. Then 8 years ago they sold the apartment in Ramot, and moved to a different apartment which is in Gush Etzion. When they moved to Gush Etzion, they had 15 years left of a mortgage in the house there.

Anyways, three years ago, my mother in law passed away from diabetes. My father in law, sister-in-law, and husband continued to live in that apartment. Nobody complained, because the whole family was still living there.

Last year, all at once, my husband and I got engaged, and so did my father in law. My husbands sister was moved to a hostel that teaches her independent living. My husband and I were planning on probably moving to a trailer in Shilo, the place where both my seminary and his Yeshiva are located. The rent there is very cheap, compared to what it is Gush Etzion.

My father in law, during the time that both couples where engaged, had a spontaneous idea, that why don't we (my husband and I), move into the apartment in Gush Etzion. We told him we'd think about it, because it would be far from our home bases, and even if we rented it out for the price of the mortgage payments, it would still be twice the price of the rent of a trailer in Shilo.

To add another dimension, my husbands grandfather passed away 6 years ago, and my husbands uncle, now takes care of all family matters. So he called us up one day, and told us, that my husband that instead of him inheriting later on the apartment, my father in law wants to sell it to us for the price of the rest of the mortgage. It made perfect sense to us, because my father in law was not using the apartment at all, and it was just sitting empty. My parents thought this was a such good idea, that they said, that they were willing to pay for our wedding on their own, because from my husbands side we would get the apartment.

Now at this time we where all extremely busy all the time. I was finishing up my year of volunteer work, preparing for my next year of school, and planning the wedding. My husband was in the process of getting out of the army, learning in Yeshiva, and getting ready for out wedding. My father in law was busy getting ready for his wedding. None of us had even a drop of free time, so the uncle volunteered to take care of everything for the apartment.

My husband and I got married and moved into the apartment, my father in law got married and moved in with his new wife. My husband and I took a chunk of our savings, and we lowered the mortgage to only be for another four years. The apartment we are living in now, is worth 170 thousand dollars. The lawyer did all the paperwork and going to the banks etc, for us. He just told us what to sign, and everything was fine.

Now I must add, my father in law doesn't read Hebrew well at all. Neither do I for that matter. So neither of us knew 100 % what we where signing, we knew approximately.

Anyways, yesterday we found out, that during the time my husband and I where engaged, they family very much pressured my father in law to sell the apartment to us. Saying that if he didn't, he would go back on the promise he made. So that was the reason my father in law sold us the apartment.

Also, my father in law realized, that he doesn't have any savings. Any savings he did have, where put into the apartment, which now he doesn't have anymore. In other words, he regrets selling us the apartment. Also, he is worried that if anything happens to him, where would he go? His new wife has left her apartment completely to her kids.

He suggested, that therefore, we should take out another mortgage on the apartment, for a sum that he would use to pay for the down payment on a small one bedroom apartment, that he would get a mortgage on. He would then rent out the small apartment, and if anything happened to his wife, he would move into that apartment. The small apartment would have some sort of clause that it would be inherited by us no matter what.

To be honest, we now own completely an apartment, with four years of mortgage left, a situation in which almost no newly married couples are in. On the other hand, we never would have moved into the apartment, if we didn't think it would be almost completely ours. My husband and I don't fit in at all to the neighborhood we live in. We are okay with it, because I go to school full time and come home late, and my husband works full time and comes home late. So we really never see the neighbors.

My question is, is the above a reasonable thing for my father in law to ask from us? If not, is their something else I could do?

Thanks very much for your help. Any advice would be very much appreciated, because I am at a total lose about what to do.

Leppi, you DO get into the most bizarre situations.

First of all, why did your Father in Laws family pressure him to sell to you and your husband? What business was it of theirs? Second, are you and your husband obligated to NOT sell this apartment since it seems to have come to the "end" of the stipulation phase of the will.

You COULD sell the apartment, buy one where you want to be (and if it is less rent there the homes should also cost less) and make a small loan for your Father in law from some of the profits.

Let's look at this without all of the extra history for a moment.

If he sold it to you you would have paid fair market value, leaned a loan which would have been used to pay off the mortgage he owed (The bank) leaving him money left over. Financially speaking he would have gotten everything out of the house, most likely he could have charged you fair market value and not only gotten his original investment but a sizable return on that investment. Meaning, unless he gambles or spends money unwisely, this request would not have needed to be made.

Yet on the other hand, he owned the property and pay for X number of years, then transfered the property to you with the stipulation that you take over the payments then he does have a vested interest in the house. Meaning he did you a kindness by virtually selling you a house at a personal loss. He made a gift of X amount of money money that you did not and do not have to pay on the house... legally.

He did not get his investment out of the property, and he did not turn a profit, if anything all of the money he paid into the house can be considered a financial loss. For him he could have just piled up the money in one pile, poured gasoline on it and struck a match.

Technically you do not owe him for a gift, the money he invested into the property became a gift as soon as he handed it to you.

Your obligation to him is what ever personal worth you place in him or in family.

Personally there is no question of the request being "reasonable" At least if I was in the situation. It is a request that I would try to fulfill if it was in my ability, if not then I would lean a partial mortgage or take out a loan or SOMETHING to help the man who, through the kindness and generosity of his gift placed newly weds in a situation which is much more than many newly weds have. To me that was an obvious and large act of love that deserves love in return.

If my father in law had made such a request of me I would know that such a request was one of a man in a very desperate situation. But then my father in law was a man who would not ask for help unless he absolutely needed it (Big help, little help He always asked for).

My REAL advice is to take the situation and all of the legal documents and contracts to a lawyer. With that valuable a piece of property, you need to find a lawyer that deals with real estate AND wills and other similar documents AND one that is VERY fluent with contractural Hebrew and modern laws and legal precidents.

You might not be able to afford this easily, but Honey, in this situation you ALL have something to lose INCLUDING your FUTURE earnings dealing with taxes and Capital Gains. You COULD end up owing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars and be REALLY in bad shape instead of what appears to be a good shape now.

I agree with David that helping out your Father in law would be the generous and loving thing to do, but you also want to do it in a way that will be safe for ALL of you.

If I am not mistaken, you can borrow against the VALUE of a home and repay it back at the end of the mortgage payments sort of thing.

I don't know much, but that is why a real Lawyer would be a good idea.

Oddly I don't see this as a legal issue. The lawyer can tell you where you stand, but legally that is already clear: you own real estate that came to your husband because of the perhaps unwise decision your father-in-law made, under family pressure.

You say the residence is inconveniently placed anyway. If it were me, I would sell it and give your father-in-law an amount that he had invested in the place before he handed it over to you in return for your assuming the mortgage.

(His investment constitutes his wedding gift to you, true; but it seems he was too generous. We ought not to give gifts that are beyond our means. But on the other hand, the property may well have increased in value. The difference between the proceeds and the unpaid balance of the mortgage, less a fair assessment of your father's interest in the property when he gave it to you, is what your wedding gift turns out to be!)

Then move back to the convenient, low-rent place in Shilo. Then when your lives are a little more settled, you can use your portion of the proceeds to put a down payment on a residence of your own choosing, in a convenient area.

Relatives who try and arrange everyone else's lives are a pain in the neck. They invariably get it wrong.

Legally, we are not obliged to anything and I know that. Unless my father in law claims that he didn't know what the contract he was signing said, and because of that, wants to nullify the contract.

But on the other hand, he did give us a very large gift, in which he invested a lot of himself. And now he still works, but he lives in his currents wifes apartment. He is worried about where will he go and what will he do, if anything happens to his current wife.

Sher, the reason the family pressured him to sell the apartment, is because the original apartment in palmach, he promised that he would give to my husband if anything happened to his wife (my husbands mother). And since his wife passed away, so the family wanted the apartment to go to my husband.

First of all, Young Lady- I hope this stressful situation has taught you an important lesson about signing anything you don't fully and utterly understand. Never, never, never put your hand to to a contract that you're not 100% clear on! End of lecture.

In the name of family harmony, here's what I would do if I were in your shoes- Run this past YOUR folks and see what they think- Continue paying the mortgage for the next 4 years, then after the mortgage is paid in full, make similar payments to your father in law for another 5 or 7 years to give him some compensation for his investment in the property... you'll still have gotten your home for a bargain, and if your father in law feels that this is not sufficient recompense, I'm certain that the rest of the family will remind him that his son was to have recieved an apartment according to the agreement made according to the wishes of his late wife with regard to the Palmach property.
Good luck, Sweetheart.

It's not a legal issue at all. I agree 100% with babthrower... best to get out of it and divide the proceeds in a fair manner and call it a day. Move to a place that you love and can afford and get on with life. Taking large gifts and or inheritances cause more trouble than they are worth - get busy forgetting about it and earn money that is all yours so there is no muddy waters to confuse family relations.

Leppi wrote:

quote:

Sher, the reason the family pressured him to sell the apartment, is because the original apartment in palmach, he promised that he would give to my husband if anything happened to his wife (my husbands mother). And since his wife passed away, so the family wanted the apartment to go to my husband.

Now, I'm afraid this is becoming less a matter of looking for advice as a matter of looking for justification. Listen to what you are saying:

quote:

... the family pressured him to sell ... he promised that he would give my husband if anything happened to his wife ... the family wanted ...

See how this is getting all cluttered up? How much of this is hearsay, family gossip, supposition? Who cares what the family wanted? The issue is simple. The mother didn't memorialize it in her will. Families fight for decades over issues like this. It's horribly tacky.

If he was a stranger, and had miscalculated in making a sale, it's o.k., we'd all be saying 'tough cheese, let him be more careful next time,' but he's not. He's family. And he did a generous but foolish thing. Don't take advantage of it.

You are still at the age of 'becoming'. (Frankly judging by some of your previous posts, I'm surprised you're old enough to be married.) If you make ungenerous choice now, with all kinds of justifications, you will become a more and more grasping, self-rationalizing person.

This is not the road to happiness.

I will not post again in this thread.

quote:

It's horribly tacky.

Yes yes... so true. Take it as a lesson learned and move on independently and if by some great chance some family inheritance ever befalls you easily then be happy, but this is the stuff that makes people miserable and spiteful and just plain ugly. Live your own independent life and try to not get mixed up in family financial bothers - let them donate the "fortunes" to charities.

Money is best when it's earned.