I have an issue that I'm hoping someone can direct me on.....I wish not to entertain an attorney if I can help it.

Well, my neighbor has these trees that are in a few feet from the edge of my property (on the other side of the driveway). They are huge tall, very old pines and some other trees (and invasive vines) - with the last storm, several of them have been uprooted and are leaning on others (their only support at this point) - and branches and stuff are hanging over into my driveway and on part of my lawn. Should we get another storm, it is VERY likely that the trees will completely cross my driveway and potentially fall into part of the house.....

I approached him - he said that he'd take care of it - but then when I spoke with him again, he said that he looked into it and said it would be too expensive so he is not interested. He actually wrote a letter and mailed it to me giving me permission to have an insured service onto his grounds to remove trees - at MY expense.

Legally - isn't he required to take care of safety issues with trees? I'm not responsible for keeping HIS trees off MY driveway or house - am I?????

When I say some of these trees are uprooted - I mean, there are gaping holes in the ground - - and they are tall white pines.....

any thoughts - anybody?????
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09-25-02, 11:32 PM
Minnesota
Of course I don't know what kind of ordinances you have in your community, but in those I'm familiar with, by law a person is liable for any damage done by his property to that of another--particularly when he is aware of the situation. Meaning that, now that your neighbor is aware of the potential danger presented by his neglect, he would be absolutely liable for any damages done to your property. If I were you I would get a city or county inspector (preferably an arborist) out to your property to asses the situation, and then go from there. If nothing else you will have it on record that the situation exists as of a certain date. There is no need for an attorney, and there is no need for you to spend a dime. Don't let your neighbor bluff his way out of his responsibility--trying to get you to pay, Good Grief!--get the facts from your local government as to where you stand, and then take action. . . before his trees do.

09-27-02, 07:31 AM
Z281980
See now, why can't your neighbor just be a decent person and take care of this ? Ugh, sometimes I hate people ! Anyway....

I don't know where in Mass you are, but I had a neighbors tree fall on my fence and I reported it to my insurance co who went after my neighbor.
Of course, the situation was a little different, because the tree wasn't a hazard BEFORE this happened.
Take a picture right now ! Then go to your town or city hall and show it to them.
I'm thinking they should be able to force the neighbor to do something with the trees because it is a danger !
Good luck !

09-27-02, 10:37 AM
Lydia
to town hall and the police dept.....(as I had given up as to what to do) - - anyway - they were both VERY nice and told me the same thing. Yes it is a danger, however, it is personal property and therefore a civil matter - neither have any jurisdiction over personal properties (the trees) - and have suggested I contact a lawyer. I guess this is what I'm going to have to do. Unfortunately this guy is an idiot (and a very rich idiot) - they knew exactly what I was dealing with when I told them at the police station and town hall who it was - just rolling the eyes roll eyes

He owns alot of property in town and in the surrounding area - people in general DO NOT like him!!! I stay away from him - luckily he enters his house on the other side so I never see him...

09-27-02, 05:05 PM
cattywampus
I doubt you'll ever get any satisfaction from the town or the police.

Try this instead: contact the carrier for your homeowners policy, if you are a homeowner, and ask them what should be done about this. If you are a renter, contact your landlord and have him look the situation over. Mind, if the trees are not threatening to fall on your house or your property, they may not be able to help you, either. I would write a letter instead of just phoning, and send it certified mail, to ensure they got it.

Catty (who does not recommend falling the trees on the neighbor's house) roll eyes confused

09-27-02, 10:36 PM
Lydia
Cattywampus - you may be on to something.
I found out by contacting an attorney, that a homeowner cannot be forced to remove trees from his or another's property. So basically, I am on my own. I either need to remove the trees that are overhanging my driveway or leave them there and risk the possibility of them falling onto my house at some point (probably this winter).....

So - this guy gets away with leaving the safety hazzard and I get to foot the bill - either way!!! Go figure!!!

But - since this guy is fully aware and there is a very strong risk that these trees will land on my property, contacting my homeowners insurance agent may be the next step.....I'm guessing I'll get nowhere, but it's worth a shot!!

09-28-02, 09:40 AM
Fritzzs
Got a camera ??
Take lots of pictures from every angle, so if something does happen, you'll have him by the , uh, welll,,,,EARS......

09-28-02, 07:53 PM
Byter
Great suggestions regarding taking pictures to document the
pre-existing hazard.
One additional thought on CATTY's excellent suggestion of
contacting your insurance Co.

Find out his Insurance company and present them with your
concerns. They are the ones that will have to pay if his trees
damage your property.

09-28-02, 09:58 PM
Lydia
His insurance company is NOT the one who has to pay if his trees fall on my house - MINE is.....I have a friend who owns an Insurance Agency - - when I asked him how I would find out who my neighbor has as a carrier - - he told me that my insurance company would be the one to pay - not his. The reason? The property insured is mine and not his.....The trees are not insured, the house is.....

so no matter how you look at it, he can do nothing and get away with it!!! Fair huh?
mad

10-01-02, 01:41 PM
Fritzzs
I see what you are saying Lydia, but dosen't he also have "Liability" ??? Something dosen't sound too kosher here....

10-01-02, 03:13 PM
Lydia
I'm still looking into it donrent - - and I will let you know what I find out.......I hear ya though - - certainly seems WRONG!!! mad

10-02-02, 08:01 PM
Tree
I CAN'T BELEIVE this story, Lydia!

That's absolutely insane!!! I would
NEVER have thought that my insruance
company would be responsible for my
neighbour's tree falling on my house!

That sounds like absolute B---S---!!!!

I agree - A picture is worth a thousand
words! Take many!

..by the way... your neighbour is an ASS

eek eek eek

10-03-02, 07:27 AM
Z281980
Keep us posted Lydia !!!
And if you need me to take a road trip, we'll come over with some heavy equipment and pull down the neighbors tree on THEIR property !!!

10-24-02, 04:00 PM
Redhawk
Oh shady tree, that offers sunlight
filterd gently through thy leaves
to cool me as the heat of day passes
and leaves me tranquil
in the breeze...
EXCEPT WHEN SOME JURK REFUSES TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ANNOYING TREES THREATENING TO INTERFEAR WITH THE USE OF ONE'S PROPERTY!!!
This is just rotten to the core, no pun intended! My partner had several trees OF HERS removed one year (before we ever met) because they were threatening to fall, (maples with shallow root systems) or loose limbs onto her neighbor's garage and or house and she didn't want to wait for such a horrible mess to happen before taking action herself. I can't believe these people art saying that you either fork over the money and deal with it all yourself or...suffer the consequences when they do topple over into your property!!!! This is impossible! I'm very steamed on your behalf! I sort of feel like Z2 has the right idea...dang! Keep us posted and I hope you win! (thought...how well does the attorney you talked with know/like your neighbor???) mad

11-01-02, 03:42 PM
donaldekliros
To Lydia:

Based on what I've read, I would take lots of pictures. Then I would contact a Lawyer & SUE your neighbor.

It will cost you a few bucks to contact a lawyer & sue, however, I would think it would be more reasonable based on what it might cost you or your insurance company to remove the tree branches ot the entire tree, if it appears dangerous to you/yours.

That is what you need a Lawyer for to explain to you your legal rights.

To Z2818980:

That's one hell of a nice gesture on your part to suggest cutting the tree down & laying it on the offending neighbor's property.

However, is this legal? You are from Massachsetts, you should know. I would think, off the top of my hat, that if you did this you would be liable, if the offending neighbor chose to take you to court. If he has clout & is a bigwig as other seem to think he is, you might loose this kind of encounter. Be careful.
11-01-02, 04:24 PM
Lydia
unfortunately I spoke with two attorneys (one who knows the jerk well) and both indicated that a property owner cannot be forced to remove trees from their property.....

So - $1,000 later, the trees are gone. The attorney did indicate that I should take him to small claims court. Neither of the attorneys wanted to take it on advising that it would cost me more in legal fees (and not able to recoup if I were to win) to take him to a regular court.

So - the trees are gone, but all is NOT forgotten!!!!! I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet - don't know if it's worth the effort... mad

11-02-02, 06:12 AM
Fritzzs
I find it absolutly unbeliveable the advice from your attorneys, untill I saw what state you live in...
I can assure you that here in Florida he would have had a court order to take them down...
I wish you had gotten a signed release from him for going on his property and taking the trees down - because without that, being the jerk he is, might bring tresspass charges against you...Hope not....
Try Small Claims Court..the fee is not large...Good Luck...
P>S< Just thought of something...Check into the posibility of putting a lein on his property...

11-03-02, 08:23 AM
soaringhorse
Lydia, I know the trees are gone now, but you shouldn't have had to do this. I had a friend who was on the other side of the coin and his homeowners had to pay for the removal of the trees on the fenceline, due to being sued by the neighbor. The trees were damaging the neighbors sidewalk, and damaging the fence. My friends insurance companys lawyers took over from there.The trees were cut down by my friends homeowners ins. co. and that was that. Now you have the letter saying he wanted you to pay for it, did you take pictures? Now that the trees are gone, your insurance company may not want to deal with it but you really need to sue this guy. I know it sounds harsh, but this is very unfair. I really don't think this should be left alone, he neglected his property, and probably neglects others as well. Good Luck!

11-03-02, 10:20 AM
Lydia
Donrent - I probably will do the small claims court thing - and I do have a signed release from him to go onto his property - had to have that or nobody would have touched them as they know exactly what he's like!

Soaringhorse - believe it or not - had already gotten in touch with the insurance company - since there was no damage, they wouldn't get involved.

It was a really frustrating situation - it's personal property so it's civil - couldn't involve anyone. Since there was not yet any personal or structural damage, there wasn't a darn thing anyone could do......now I truly know what the word injustice is all about!!

11-10-02, 04:44 PM
cattywampus
Well, I scanned through these answers pretty rapidly, but it seems to me that someone's mixed up here (probably me). If the trees are gone, and left without doing any damage, it will do no good to sue him. The potential threat has been removed, also, so that's no good. You could call that attorney and ask him, but I think you would be within your rights to sue him maybe for a small sum to pay for removing the debris that fell on your property.

FYI, the responsibility for repairing any damage these trees might have caused to your house (or any other damage that is covered) IS that of YOUR (or your landlord's) homeowners insurance carrier. They will then go after the rich guy's insurance company to be reimbursed. This is called "subrogation." It works the same way with auto insurance.

I once had a neighbor who refused to mend his fence. His cattle were constantly breaking out and joining mine in the field. At last I got fed up with it and told him that if I was going to feed his cows I was also going to butcher them. He mended the fence. Sometimes it's a matter of finding the right words.

Catty (who can be fairly snotty when the situation calls for it) wink razz

11-11-02, 01:58 AM
Wildflower63
There may have been a different approach to handling the tree problem so that you wouldn't be out cash for it. Many times, the utilitie companies will trim them up free. You didn't mention whether or not you had taken pictures that would show whether or not his trees were in danger of damaging your car if left in the driveway. It's going to be hard for anyone to say one way or the other why you had the trees trimmed to begin with.

First, you need to report them to the city of where ever you live. Most cities or suburbs have existing ordanances for this type of thing. If they see a danger, they allow them a period of time to repair it. They can and will take them to court if they don't fix the trees that are in poor condition endangering your property. You have to have pictures or some other type of proof if you want to take it to court and win.

I have a neighbor that is not a big fan of trees in the yard as I am. They get upset because they have to clean their gutters and rake their yard because of my trees. I have been approached several times about removing some of my trees. She especially didn't like the cherry tree because it made a mess. I love the tree and will not cut it down.

People have different perspectives on trees. If you don't have proof, you may not win in court. I would advise small claims court and bring neighbors as witnesses of the trees that were endangering your property. That would probably be enough to recover your cost.

I'm not sure about the legality of trees crossing over the border to the neighbors property and what can be done about that. I would call the city and ask.

11-11-02, 11:55 AM
Lydia
I do have lots of pictures as well as information from the police dept/fire dept. Unfortunately no utility company, or other municipality gives a rat's hynie when you're talking about personal property. If it's your property the town stays out of it....

So - I do have pictures and stuff.....the rest will remain to be seen (or unseen as the case may be)..

11-11-02, 01:04 PM
Wildflower63
Take the guy to small claims court. You don't need a lawyer. I don't think the filing fee is expensive either. You should be able to get your money back.

11-12-02, 07:55 AM
Z281980
Wow Lydia this whole thing stinks ! I suppose it can't hurt to try small claims court. If I'm correct it's only about $ 15 to file.
I think it's going to end up being one of those stories where the person who is REALLY in the right here gets screwed ! Sorry to hear it !

Side note to Donald: Yes it would have probably been illegal for me to bring the equipment and remove the trees sure, but there are ALWAYS dirty little ways around what is right and what is RIGHT wink

11-12-02, 12:01 PM
Lydia
don't think for a second that I didn't consider calling you up on your offer!!!!! Then I figured that whole damn "2 wrongs don't make a right" saying and thought I'd be the better person!!!!! Unfortunately!! Sheesh!!

11-12-02, 02:04 PM
Z281980
Hey No problem. I guess sometimes you have to take the high road (Although I don't think I've tried that - ha ha wink )

11-12-02, 02:54 PM
babthrower
This would be your action in small claims:

(1) the trees were hazardous to your property and your life (show pictures)

(2) The owner refused to take preventative measures so that you would not incur damages for which he would be liable

(3) You tried all reasonable means to get him to comply, going to municipal authorities, etc., to no avail

(4) With his written permission, you removed the trees to mitigate your damages.

(You are allowed to mitigate your damages when you are threatened. Actually, you are doing the idiot a favor when you do this. The lawsuit that would have resulted had his negligence caused damage, injury or death, would have cost him or his insurer a lot more than what removing the trees cost.)

If the pictures are good and show real and immediate danger, you will win. Be sure to take the letter he wrote you to court with you. You will also need all your receipts to demonstrate your damages.

Do take the case to small claims. People like him ride roughshod over less powerful people. That's what the courts are for: to repair damages.

"It is necessary only for the good man to do nothing, for evil to triumph."

11-12-02, 02:56 PM
babthrower
Footnote: next time something like this happens, take it to HIS insurer. They are the ones who would be out the bucks if you had damages. That's why this guy doesn't care.

But an insurer can either pay for the prevention themselves or threaten not to insure him if he acts so reckelssly with their money.

11-12-02, 08:55 PM
Lydia
Babthrower - I spoke to an insurance company - - the trees would have landed on the property that was insured (my house) and MY insurance company would be responsible for payment, not his. His company would only be responsible if it landed on a person...I know - this is all SO Bizarre I can't stand it!

Just read your previous post now - - great information concerning the small claims positioning - - Thanks!!!

11-13-02, 12:17 AM
babthrower
Yes, of course you would have applied to your insurance company when the damage occurred. But they, in turn, would have gone after your charming neighbor, and he, in turn, would have gone to HIS insurer.

The liability is his. Your neighbor's insurance would cover it if he carries that type of liability insurance.

Therefore his insurer would be interested if he know of the potential danger and did nothing. that could be cause for cancelling his insurance. Why should they pay thousands (if a death resulted, possibly millions) of dollars when his premium is probably only a few hundred dollars a year?

I'll give you a parallel example that has nothing to do with insurance, so it won't seem so complicated.

Say you have a dog. It bit someone. Later a neighbor came to you and said, "Your dog gets out of your yard through a hole in the corner of your fence. It chases kids in the park."

You said, "Well, it's their look-out. They should invest a few bucks in kevlar pants."

Later your dog bit a child, injuring him badly.

Do you think the Kevlar pants argument will save you from liability? No way.

The insurance companies, yours and his, assume the liability for each of you. But that does not excuse either party from behaving responsibly.

Take it to small claims.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,