I have a Tomato garden and they are really tall now and there are about 50 plants and there is more leaves than fruit. I'm afraid that b/c of the large plants and the large amt. of foliage that the sun is not geting to the fruit. Can you cut these back some how? If it is possiable, it would help out alot. I've never herd any thing about cuting back Tomato plants before. Any suggestions? ************************************************************ 07-09-05, 08:41 PM Sherasi I believe that the plants will mature with the foliage exposed to the sun. Fruit will mature without sun exposure... (think of how well-hidden strawberries and other fruit is on trees).
07-09-05, 08:42 PM Tree Doug... you know those large leaves that yeild nothing - cut them off! They are robbing the tomatoes of sun and nutrients. Trust me. Been there and done that! Wink This way the focus is on the tomatoes and not on the leaves.
07-09-05, 09:02 PM Doug Any good web site with instructions on how to cut them off the right way?
07-10-05, 12:15 AM DvdGStwrt Are your plants flowering? If not then you need to add a fertilizer with a higher Phosphorus and Potassium over Nitrogen.
Usually you will see a fertilizer with 10-10-10
This reads as 10% Nitrogen - 10%Phosphorous - 10% Potassium.
If there is a lack of flowers I would suggest a fertilizer that has 8-16-24 - that is 8% Nitrogen, 16% Phosphorus 24% Potassium
- - - - -
If they are flowering and you are not getting much fruit, the problem can be lack of pollinators. Gently shake each plant each day, this will cause their pollens to drift down the plant to pollinate other flowers. I have gotten into the habit of brushing my hand over the tops of my tomatoes as they grow just to make certain the flowers are pollinating.
- - - - - -
You didn’t say what variety of tomato you planted, some of them are early varieties growing rather fast and start putting out fruit early on during the heat of summer they produce less – excellent for an early crop of tomato working best if planted in doors weeks ahead of last frost. Then there are the late varieties that require the hot days of summer to get them to start producing, these start best in the garden as seed and will last until the first frost.
Then there are other varieties out there that promise to do other things – hybrids bred for climate, growing season, etc. If you got one that was for a different zone it could do the same thing you are seeing.
- - - -
Next year I suggest getting several varieties, late and early, then prepping the soil with a good compost before you plant. Follow the watering instruction for each variety. If you water too much it can also produce big leafy plants - This ties in with seasonal rains, usually the rains fall in the spring in fall with few rainy days during the summer.
50 plants? Hm. Planning on doing a lot of canning? Wink
07-10-05, 04:37 PM Doug I'm useing a Mirciale-gro plant food for tomatoes and in think the N.P.K. is 18-21-18 or something like that and I'm feeding them way to much. I'm useing a 10-10-10 fert right now. Any MG type plant food that will help aide in this prob?
07-11-05, 02:34 PM DvdGStwrt Plants can become addicted to chemicals as much as humans - a little FYI.
You are using a 10-10-10 and a 18-21-18 which is giving you lots of nitrogen (for leaves) too much phosphorus (which aids in root growth and seed production) and not enough potassium which improves the quality and quantity of fruit and improves disease resistance.
Among the best ratios for tomatoes are 8-32-16 and 6-24-24 note low nitrogen, higher levels of potassium and phosphorous.
My suggestion of 8-16-24 is based on your description of not enough fruit but lots of leaves.
MG – I believe you mean miracle grow(?) I do not recommend any of those – I am strictly organic in my way of gardening, no harsh chemicals, no pesticides, no herbicides – lots and lots of manure, compost and SOME organic fertilizers that come from organic sources – a bit more pricey, however they tend to release slower into the soil. The last time I used an organic fertilizer was 4 years ago to raise the nitrogen content in my soil for corn.
Miracle Grow does have a formula specifically for tomatoes - use as needed, not as a regular diet. Soil Chemistry is a tricky thing and the continual addtion of chemicals to the soil when not needed will give undesired results, however I would suggest that you stop feeding altogether and see what develops, see if the plants will readjust naturally to no food and what is in the soil to produce more fruit. When using a specified fertilizer, i.e. MG for Tomatoes, that is all you use do not mix with other fertilizers like the all purpose 10-10-10. Feed as needed.
I need to point out that it may already be too late to undo the over feeding and you may not get that big of a crop this year. Plants tend to have a longer recovery process than the growing season gives them.
07-11-05, 06:54 PM Doug I'm doing a soil test as we speek. I'll find out what the pH - N-P-K is tomrrow then I guess depending on what the readings are then go on from there? I'll let ya know how it comes back. Thanks for the help. I promised my self I would have a good crop this year. I guess only time will tell. Wink
07-17-05, 10:50 AM DvdGStwrt Doug, got those test results back yet?
07-31-05, 04:55 PM Doug Yes I did. It shows that: pH: 6.5 (Slightly Acid - N: N2 (Adequate) - P: P4 (Surplus) - K: K4 (Surplus) I did it with one of those home test kits. Now the green fruit is rotting from the inside out. You try and pick it and it get's all mushy in your hands. What could be the cause of this? I think it has been a bad year for Tomatos in my kneck of the woods. It's been very hot mid 90's and dry. I think we have had 90 or hotter in the month of June. 10 days with 90+ Total for this year is like 18. Last year we had 1 day 90 or hotter. Gardeners and growns are feeling the heat moeny wise. I work for a green house and I bet it is vry hard on busniess with watering every day. Frown I guess we'll see how it comes out in the end.
08-01-05, 12:14 PM DvdGStwrt Do your rotting green tomatoes have black spots on the bottom?
However due to the previous issues you have had this year (weather and abundance of leaves) Blossom End Rot is the most likely.
Another cause of blossom end rot is over-fertilization, especially of nitrogen, which stimulates vegetative growth. Excessive vegetative growth increases the transpiration surface and further prevents calcium accumulation in the fruit. Tomato varieties with large amounts of foliage tend to be more susceptible to blossom end rot.
Calcium is a problem in most soils. What I did to raise my calcium in my soil was to add crushed egg shells to the compost bin. I used our egg shells, my land lord’s egg shells and the parent’s egg shells over the course of a long winter. I let them dry out, put them in a bucket and used a sledge hammer tamping them in the bucket, shaking the bucket to move them amount to “grind” them up.
There are chemicals on the market that you can use to raise the calcium however chemicals are the equivalent of methamphetamine for plants – once you start down that dark road of chemical dependency your plants and your garden will need more and more. It becomes a vicious cycle of fighting disease and pests and needing to feed the plants. It’s great for large scale farming who can afford the materials to spray, terrible for the home gardener. Home gardeners get into home gardening now days to get away from the chemicals, pesticides, blah.
As I said before fertilizers only concentrate on three elements nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous – plants, like you and me, need trace elements like copper, calcium, magnesium, boron, zinc, etc. There are many diseases that are caused by lack of these trace elements in soil. The best method for putting those back into the soil is composted organic material, green and brown matter and manures – using a combination of both, mixed well, well rotted and mixed into the top 4 inches of the soil will improve the growth of all vegetables and fruits with the least amount of chance for over doing one specific chemical.
* * * * *
You most likely will have issues with this year’s crop continually – do not expect a big harvest. The methods I use have given me year after year of good healthy crops. No I do not get 100% of my harvest due to the simple fact that I lose to pests – a choice I made so I do not have to use more chemicals to kill critters that eat my harvest – it is a give and take situation for me.
This year is the 7th year and I rest the soil on the 7th year But I still got some volunteer plants – a volunteer tomato plant, some potatoes and a squash/gourd mix that I think is a pumpkin/acorn squash cross pollinated thing – time will tell.
Sixth, I trellis and stake and cause as much upward growth in my garden as possible to open up the ground below for more plants. My vegetable garden has about 225 square feet of raised beds with a wide grassy area in the middle.
There is a lot of other little things I have learned, lots and lots and lots which just reading is not going to teach – you need to do in order to get the art form down.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 261 | Location: Cleveland,OH USA | Registered: 06-04-02
I believe that the plants will mature with the foliage exposed to the sun. Fruit will mature without sun exposure... (think of how well-hidden strawberries and other fruit is on trees).
Posts: 9137 | Location: PA, USA | Registered: 06-05-02
Doug... you know those large leaves that yeild nothing - cut them off! They are robbing the tomatoes of sun and nutrients. Trust me. Been there and done that! This way the focus is on the tomatoes and not on the leaves.
Posts: 5146 | Location: Not of this planet | Registered: 06-16-02
Are your plants flowering? If not then you need to add a fertilizer with a higher Phosphorus and Potassium over Nitrogen.
Usually you will see a fertilizer with 10-10-10
This reads as 10% Nitrogen - 10%Phosphorous - 10% Potassium.
If there is a lack of flowers I would suggest a fertilizer that has 8-16-24 - that is 8% Nitrogen, 16% Phosphorus 24% Potassium
- - - - -
If they are flowering and you are not getting much fruit, the problem can be lack of pollinators. Gently shake each plant each day, this will cause their pollens to drift down the plant to pollinate other flowers. I have gotten into the habit of brushing my hand over the tops of my tomatoes as they grow just to make certain the flowers are pollinating.
- - - - - -
You didn’t say what variety of tomato you planted, some of them are early varieties growing rather fast and start putting out fruit early on during the heat of summer they produce less – excellent for an early crop of tomato working best if planted in doors weeks ahead of last frost. Then there are the late varieties that require the hot days of summer to get them to start producing, these start best in the garden as seed and will last until the first frost.
Then there are other varieties out there that promise to do other things – hybrids bred for climate, growing season, etc. If you got one that was for a different zone it could do the same thing you are seeing.
- - - -
Next year I suggest getting several varieties, late and early, then prepping the soil with a good compost before you plant. Follow the watering instruction for each variety. If you water too much it can also produce big leafy plants - This ties in with seasonal rains, usually the rains fall in the spring in fall with few rainy days during the summer.
50 plants? Hm. Planning on doing a lot of canning?
Posts: 4014 | Location: Leaving land, heading for the ocean | Registered: 06-03-02
I'm useing a Mirciale-gro plant food for tomatoes and in think the N.P.K. is 18-21-18 or something like that and I'm feeding them way to much. I'm useing a 10-10-10 fert right now. Any MG type plant food that will help aide in this prob?
Posts: 261 | Location: Cleveland,OH USA | Registered: 06-04-02
Plants can become addicted to chemicals as much as humans - a little FYI.
You are using a 10-10-10 and a 18-21-18 which is giving you lots of nitrogen (for leaves) too much phosphorus (which aids in root growth and seed production) and not enough potassium which improves the quality and quantity of fruit and improves disease resistance.
Among the best ratios for tomatoes are 8-32-16 and 6-24-24 note low nitrogen, higher levels of potassium and phosphorous.
My suggestion of 8-16-24 is based on your description of not enough fruit but lots of leaves.
MG – I believe you mean miracle grow(?) I do not recommend any of those – I am strictly organic in my way of gardening, no harsh chemicals, no pesticides, no herbicides – lots and lots of manure, compost and SOME organic fertilizers that come from organic sources – a bit more pricey, however they tend to release slower into the soil. The last time I used an organic fertilizer was 4 years ago to raise the nitrogen content in my soil for corn.
Miracle Grow does have a formula specifically for tomatoes - use as needed, not as a regular diet. Soil Chemistry is a tricky thing and the continual addtion of chemicals to the soil when not needed will give undesired results, however I would suggest that you stop feeding altogether and see what develops, see if the plants will readjust naturally to no food and what is in the soil to produce more fruit. When using a specified fertilizer, i.e. MG for Tomatoes, that is all you use do not mix with other fertilizers like the all purpose 10-10-10. Feed as needed.
I need to point out that it may already be too late to undo the over feeding and you may not get that big of a crop this year. Plants tend to have a longer recovery process than the growing season gives them.
Posts: 4014 | Location: Leaving land, heading for the ocean | Registered: 06-03-02
I'm doing a soil test as we speek. I'll find out what the pH - N-P-K is tomrrow then I guess depending on what the readings are then go on from there? I'll let ya know how it comes back. Thanks for the help. I promised my self I would have a good crop this year. I guess only time will tell.
Posts: 261 | Location: Cleveland,OH USA | Registered: 06-04-02
Yes I did. It shows that: pH: 6.5 (Slightly Acid - N: N2 (Adequate) - P: P4 (Surplus) - K: K4 (Surplus) I did it with one of those home test kits. Now the green fruit is rotting from the inside out. You try and pick it and it get's all mushy in your hands. What could be the cause of this? I think it has been a bad year for Tomatos in my kneck of the woods. It's been very hot mid 90's and dry. I think we have had 90 or hotter in the month of June. 10 days with 90+ Total for this year is like 18. Last year we had 1 day 90 or hotter. Gardeners and growns are feeling the heat moeny wise. I work for a green house and I bet it is vry hard on busniess with watering every day. I guess we'll see how it comes out in the end.
Posts: 261 | Location: Cleveland,OH USA | Registered: 06-04-02
However due to the previous issues you have had this year (weather and abundance of leaves) Blossom End Rot is the most likely.
Another cause of blossom end rot is over-fertilization, especially of nitrogen, which stimulates vegetative growth. Excessive vegetative growth increases the transpiration surface and further prevents calcium accumulation in the fruit. Tomato varieties with large amounts of foliage tend to be more susceptible to blossom end rot.
Calcium is a problem in most soils. What I did to raise my calcium in my soil was to add crushed egg shells to the compost bin. I used our egg shells, my land lord’s egg shells and the parent’s egg shells over the course of a long winter. I let them dry out, put them in a bucket and used a sledge hammer tamping them in the bucket, shaking the bucket to move them amount to “grind” them up.
There are chemicals on the market that you can use to raise the calcium however chemicals are the equivalent of methamphetamine for plants – once you start down that dark road of chemical dependency your plants and your garden will need more and more. It becomes a vicious cycle of fighting disease and pests and needing to feed the plants. It’s great for large scale farming who can afford the materials to spray, terrible for the home gardener. Home gardeners get into home gardening now days to get away from the chemicals, pesticides, blah.
As I said before fertilizers only concentrate on three elements nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous – plants, like you and me, need trace elements like copper, calcium, magnesium, boron, zinc, etc. There are many diseases that are caused by lack of these trace elements in soil. The best method for putting those back into the soil is composted organic material, green and brown matter and manures – using a combination of both, mixed well, well rotted and mixed into the top 4 inches of the soil will improve the growth of all vegetables and fruits with the least amount of chance for over doing one specific chemical.
* * * * *
You most likely will have issues with this year’s crop continually – do not expect a big harvest. The methods I use have given me year after year of good healthy crops. No I do not get 100% of my harvest due to the simple fact that I lose to pests – a choice I made so I do not have to use more chemicals to kill critters that eat my harvest – it is a give and take situation for me.
This year is the 7th year and I rest the soil on the 7th year But I still got some volunteer plants – a volunteer tomato plant, some potatoes and a squash/gourd mix that I think is a pumpkin/acorn squash cross pollinated thing – time will tell.
Sixth, I trellis and stake and cause as much upward growth in my garden as possible to open up the ground below for more plants. My vegetable garden has about 225 square feet of raised beds with a wide grassy area in the middle.
There is a lot of other little things I have learned, lots and lots and lots which just reading is not going to teach – you need to do in order to get the art form down.
Posts: 4014 | Location: Leaving land, heading for the ocean | Registered: 06-03-02
But I still got some volunteer plants – a volunteer tomato plant, some potatoes and a squash/gourd mix that I think is a pumpkin/acorn squash cross pollinated thing – time will tell.
I guess we'll see how it comes out in the end.
