When people hear this term, most of them think of children honoring their parents, and not adults honoring their parents.

Does honor means obeying, or respecting, or both, or even more? Adults can't/don't obey their parents but they can respect them. In the Biblical sense, does honor have a different meaning than everyday respecting and obeying.
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12-26-05, 12:44 AM
tsaeb
I want to first point out that there is more to the commandment:

"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee" (Exodus 20.12).

So what does honoring one's father and mother have to do with lengthening days?

12-26-05, 06:29 AM
Silja
For me, to honour is to respect, to listen to their wisdom, to look after in their old age.

As to Tsaeb's question, I think it lengthens your days because if you listen to your parents as a child, you will have less accidents (no touching electricity sockets etc), and if you listen to them as an adult you may have a better, happier life which increases longevity too.

12-26-05, 09:46 AM
Elexina

quote:
Originally posted by tsaeb: So what does honoring one's father and mother have to do with lengthening days?

That we should honor our parents more after the winter solstice, as the days start to get longer? Wink

I agree with Silja, to "honor" one's parents is to respect them. That may go hand in hand with "obey" when we are young, but as we age and take responsibility for our own lives we still ought to respect and revere our parents, and other elders as well.
But in my opinion, this is only true if your parents (and elders) are deserving of respect.

12-26-05, 11:49 AM
GarColga

quote:

Originally posted by tsaeb:
I want to first point out that there is more to the commandment:

"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee" (Exodus 20.12).

So what does honoring one's father and mother have to do with lengthening days?

Essentially the same commandment appears in Deut. 5:16 (KJV) "Honour thy father and thy mother , as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."

Read in context, it seems clear that the comments "that thy days may be long" and "that thy days may be prolonged" are to be taken as threats, because according to Deut. 21:18-21, the punishment for being a "stubborn" or "rebellious" son is death.

Deut. 21:18-21

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

12-26-05, 12:29 PM
juanruiz
Didn't we already cover all this, including Jesus' statement about his followers having to hate their father?

12-26-05, 01:48 PM
babthrower
Ouch! I hate that part about being a glutton and a drunkard. Especially after yesterday! Red Face

12-26-05, 02:03 PM
juanruiz

quote:
Ouch! I hate that part about being a glutton and a drunkard. Especially after yesterday!


Cheer up, babs...that only applied to sons.

12-26-05, 03:36 PM
babthrower
Woopie ding! A good side to the double standard!

12-26-05, 05:05 PM
honilov
As Elexina pointed out, in some cases parents might not deserve respect. In cases where children are being abused and neglected, it would be hard to respect them. But, since each person has to do right for themselves, you should still respect them, because the abusive parents have to pay their own price for their wrongdoings.

Great responses! Thanks!

12-26-05, 05:17 PM
juanruiz
Honi, as I alluded to above, this question came up a long time ago. I'm too lazy to go back into the archives to look it up. In essence, this commandment is a reflection of a tribal or clan society, where the patriarch ran things. No matter how old the children, and no matter how many children they might have had, the ruling forces were the father and the mother. Break down that authority and you had major problems. Notice the word is "honor," not "love," "obey," "respect." It's a pretty ambiguous word; what does it really mean? What is clear is that the reward is the continuation of the clan, and therefore long days in the land.

12-26-05, 07:26 PM
Professor
Some unfortunate people have fathers and mothers who are not worthy of being honored -- who indeed should be reviled. It's one of the ten commandments that is not necessarily derived from universal moral underpinnings.

12-26-05, 08:45 PM
juanruiz

quote:
It's one of the ten commandments that is not necessarily derived from universal moral underpinnings.


No, it's derived from a tribal culture in which the patriarch must be obeyed for the good of the clan.

12-27-05, 12:50 AM
babthrower
Honilov, in order to answer this question sensibly, we need to know its basis. If it is a personal question, because of a problem in your personal life, such as:

a parent wanting you, and adult offspring, to obey as if you were a child, or

a parent who has been unworthy of respect due to failure in parental duty to the child, and now demanding service, or

a parent who has betrayed a child through abuse or abandonment of the child, and now emands 'honor',

then the interpretation of 'honor' differs.

Mark 9 says that it would be better if child abusers had never been born. Surely this includes parents. Not all child abuse is by violence or sexual abuse. Some of it is simply due to a parent forgetting his/her responsibility in bringing a child into the world. We ought to respect parents. But only to the extent that they have earned it

You need not reply. Just think about it.

Parents who have given only minimal support to children deserve only minimal honor in return.

12-27-05, 07:33 AM
Elexina

quote:
Originally posted by honilov: But, since each person has to do right for themselves, you should still respect them, because the abusive parents have to pay their own price for their wrongdoings.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I give everyone a certain level of respect to start, and they can either climb or fall in my opinion. However, if someone is abusive or otherwise disrespectful of me, I would not and should not respect them (or honor or obey or love them), regardless of who they were.
Each person does not have a right to do for themselves if it involves harming another.

12-29-05, 08:20 AM
doñadiana
This question was posed on Mysteries of the Bible and Rabbi David Wolpe (is this his name?) made the comment that this was the hardest commandment because it is so hard to know what honor means and how you do it.

I think that to some extent it means to honor the office of (your) mother and father much in the same way that one would honor the Queen. I may not think that the queen did a very good job of raising her children. If I knew her personally, I might not even like her. But in her presence I would be expected to show respect, not be obnoxious or rude or disrespectful in the way I conduct myself.

The same thing might be said of a judge or anyone in authority. You have to respect the office and conduct yourself appropiately when in their presence.

In an civilized society one has to have a sense of and respect for hierarchy and order. Even the animal world knows this.

DD

12-29-05, 08:42 AM
juanruiz
It is significant that the Honor admonition is the bridge between commandments regulating the tribe's relationship to the Divinity and those between it's individual members. I reiterate that the patriarch was the Alpha-male and had to be followed without major dissent, as this central authority was essential for the well being of the whole group.

12-29-05, 10:58 AM
babthrower
But I suppose the questions remains, does honoring our parents have a place in the modern context?

Personally I think it does, in the sense that DD explained so well.

Of course there are monstrous parents and it would be immoral to give them respect or honor.

(A friend just gave me the "Language of Life" poetry series on VHS, and I've just been listening to Linda McCarriston, you see.)

But by and large I think parents do the best we/they can. We/they may be flawed by selfishness and stupidity, but we/they love our children.

This distinction is one that the theist may not be permitted to make -- that it is right to honor parents, but immoral to honor parents who have been monstrously cruel. Because it is not what is just in human terms, but what pleases the god, that is the right thing to do.

02-01-06, 04:11 PM
philalethist
Honouring thy Mother and Father

By becoming a sucess in ones own life is the greatest honour any Mother or Father could desire.

02-01-06, 06:34 PM
bik74
Will share a little bit of Islam here:

Narrated by Jahmah:

Jahmah: I said to the Holy Prophet, "O Messenger of Allah, I desire to go on a (military) expedition and I have come to consult you." He asked me if I had a mother, and when I replied that I had, he said, "Stay with her because Paradise lies beneath her feet."

Narrated by Bahz:

I asked, "Messenger of Allah, to whom should I be dutiful?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then whom?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then whom?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then whom?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then to whom should I be dutiful?" He replied, "Your father,and then the next closest relative and then the next."

Quran
And We have enjoined on the human being in (regard to) his two parents - his mother bore him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning was two years - Give thanks to Me and to your parents. To Me is the goal. But if they strive with you to associate with Me (gods) you do not know about, then do not obey them. But keep company with them both in the world in an honorable manner, and follow the path of who repents to Me. Then I will tell you what you have worked. - Surah Luqman ayat 14-15

02-03-06, 05:46 AM
philalethist

quote:
But keep company with them both in the world in an honorable manner



Show me.

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