John 17- 4

Christians and many others claim that the purpose of jesus was to die for the sins of mankind.

However Jesus claims in JOHN 17-4 that he has done his work.

I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.

It is clear that the work of Jesus was completed. The so called crucifiction happend after that. So how can that be his purpose ?

Well

An understanding of a point in time must be understood. Paul wrote about crucifying the Christ again afresh. The purpose was to bring a clearer understanding of the written word to mankind, but clearly it has not happened. Progress in the way of thinking, of coming out of the dark ages, coming to the light so to speak. That light is truth.

The written word was meant to be an example that others could learn from instead of having to learn from their own mistakes, or the school of hard knocks as we say today. But once again mankind learned nothing and things grow worse as each day passes. Now we see through a glass darkly, but some have not come face to face with it all, but continue to crucify it daily.

Bik74

John 17:4 was spoken when the Day of the Cross had already started. The Jewish days started at Sunset, And the Last Supper is when Jesus was speaking those words, The Last supper started at Sunset.

Jesus has completed His Works or the Works Jesus had to physically do. Now the others have to do their parts. Judas has to get the band of men (Added the Cubit, they are the Angels given charge over Jesus) Herod, Pilate, etc, has parts they have to do, Peter has to curse Jesus so the Cock would crow to fulfill:

Ecclesiastes 10:20 Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

Jesus just has to endure what is going to happen, That is why when just before Death:

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Jesus’ works were done, the others still had work to do. So Jesus completed the work God gave Him to do, Now Judas has to complete the work God gave Him, Pilate had to complete the work God gave Him, Etc.

And that was really to die WITH the sins of mankind. He had all future sins, so He fulfilled Daniel 9:24's making an end of sins.

Under the law, the sins had to belong to Jesus:

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

So when God laid upon Jesus the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53:6) those sins became sins Jesus committed. Past, present, and future sins.

So we do not have sins now, they were all paid for in full at Golgotha. We have that which would have separated us from God, Had Jesus not taken our actions upon Himself.

Ken

John 17:17 sums it up. And it says nothing about the day of the cross but it is speaking about the word of truth and his disciples becoming part of that word in glorifying the truth. Learn to read it verbatim. Golgotha is the place of the Skull.

Phil... you spoke of this verse....

17Sanctify[b] them by the truth; your word is truth.

which may be the same as verse 14:

14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.

Either way, his work which was to give the word of God had been done. Nothing of his mission remained.

And the other part in the chapter talks about , Jesus asking for his reward from God (as he has done his job). That further confirms that his job was not to die or be crucified for the sin of mankind.

Scary but this could be the second time this year, we partially might be agreeing on something.

quote:

Scary but this could be the second time this year, we partially might be agreeing on something

I really see nothing scary about it. How can two walk together lest they be in agreement?

My take from the study of this word (KJV) brings me to the conclusion that it is not of one(as in him) but as being of many in making up the body of the word. With words one can do many things. We can instruct people in the right way to live life and associate properly with others, or confuse their minds so that they may never come to the knowledge of the truth. We can write stories in the Likeness of a man but that does not make that story an actual man. We can even write that man as having been born of a virgin. However part of my conclusion of the mater is that true virginity is purity of mind and only in that kind of mind could the truth be conceived immaculately. With words we can crucify that which is truth and there-by place a crown of thorns upon another's head which is the place of the skull. To believe a lie is to eat pork, spiritually speaking that is.

Eating of swine is not forbidden by the Quran, It is forbidden to eat the flesh of swine when you do not need the meat, and there is something else to eat.

QUR'AN 2:173 He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of God, but if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then is he guiltless. For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Ken