I must say that both bik's and Insaf's contributions here have been excellent, opening up much discussion and revelation as regards Islam. All of which leaves me with a question: If Christianity is repudiated as a religion, does that not also mean that Islam must too fall?
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01-26-06, 10:05 PM
Insaf
According to Islamic teachings, God has sent many messangers to many nations to guide them. The primary message of all the messangers was the same, to beleive in One God and submiting yourself to his will.
But as people used to stray away from the teaching and even used to change the books given to them, more messangers were sent.

We beleive that Muhammad (PBUH), was sent as the final Prophet(Rasool)with the same primary message and Quran is the final book. And the preservation of this book has been Guaranteed by God. We can see this, as compared to Bible, there is only one version of Quran. The original compiled by Usman(RT) is still preserved in a museum in Turkey.

Jesus came to guide the Jews(often reffered as lost sheep). The message of Jesus was for the jews only.
This is clearly evident in Mathew
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So it was clear that another Prophet would come and teach. Jesus did prophesise another prophet's coming,
John
16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


Christians, by courtesy of Paul, over the time had evolved the concept of Trinity and beleived Jesus as God. Muslims are guiding Christian that the concept of trinity is against the primary message.
Over the time, it is possible that both Muslims and Christians would be misguided. But Muslim have a book in a preserved form and who ever is in doubt can look for the truth in it. Christian do not have this previlige.

Muslims and Christians both believe in Jesus's second comming. When Jesus will come everything will be clarified.
So if he comes and say that he is God. Muslims faith will come to an end. But that is extremely unlikely as there isnt a single verse in the whole bible where Jesus has said in unequivocal terms that he is God or Worship me. But in fact he has clearly said the there is only one god. And that he can do nothing on his own but from will of God. And his God is greater than him and greatest of all.

01-26-06, 10:42 PM
philalethist
John 16:7 KJV
I see that your lack of understanding of the fullness of the Word of God how you can say or try to say the that this was a Prophesy of your Mohamed. But your Mohamed is not that spirit of truth spoken of.

It is expediant that he goes away but Christianity has not aloud it in that they are still worshiping the image as in Romans 1:25. For the word is the truth spoken of which they changed into the image of a man and worshipped the creacher more than the creator. Psalm 33:6.

Not in Acts 4:17-18 the Apostles were forbidden to preach in that name any longer. They were under thret. Therefore when it says in the Name of Jesus it means as in Rev 19:13 His Name is called The Word of God. In Acts 6:5 one is singled out as being a Proclyte and one only and that was one named Nicolus of Antioch. In Acts 11:26 the disciples were first called Christains at Antioch. At this time a great dearth (famine) came upon the face of the whole world. Amos 8:11-12. And so 2 Thes 2:7 For the mistery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now leteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Precept upon precept as in Isaiah 28:10 the truth will be found and Mohamed is not it. As was written Ezekiel 2:7 and thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious . John 3:34 For he whom God has sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the spirit unto him by measure. I sign this P.O.G.

01-26-06, 10:58 PM
newnickname

quote:
Christians, by courtesy of Paul, over the time had evolved the concept of Trinity and beleived Jesus as God. Muslims are guiding Christian that the concept of trinity is against the primary message.

Where did the concept of the Trinity come from? Didn't it arise some time after the earliest Christian churches? What scriptural support does it have?

Does it even make sense? Can any Christian describe the difference between, say, God and the Holy Ghost (without falling into heresy)?

01-26-06, 11:09 PM
philalethist
They like to blame Paul
In 1 John 5:7&8 there are two threes. And if one will take notice in these threes there is no mention of Jesus as he has been taken out of the way.

Now as previously mentioned by Insaf, both Muslems and Christains beleave in the second coming of Christ. That makes them both wrong because Is Come is of the present tence and those whom speak of the second coming are that spirit of the Anti-christ.

01-27-06, 03:28 PM
bik74

quote:
Originally posted by juanruiz:
If Christianity is repudiated as a religion, does that not also mean that Islam must too fall?


Depands which part of Christanity is being rejected.
If you reject 'Christ (may GOD bless him) as god or son of god (taken literally)' then no Islam will not fall. Rather if you accept the above statement then Islam will fall.

On the other hand if you simply reject Christ (may God bless him) altogather, that is Christ (peace be upon him) was not even a true prophet. Then yes Islam too will fall.

01-27-06, 03:31 PM
juanruiz

quote:
On the other hand if you simply reject Christ (may God bless him) altogather, that is Christ (peace be upon him) was not even a true prophet. Then yes Islam too will fall.



Thanks for your candor. There is much about Christianity in the Quran, as has been noted. So, for example, if I were to reject the whole virgin birth by Mary, I guess I couldn't accept Islam.

01-27-06, 03:44 PM
philalethist
true virginity is purity of mind.

01-27-06, 03:48 PM
bik74

quote:
Originally posted by juanruiz:
if I were to reject the whole virgin birth by Mary, I guess I couldn't accept Islam.


Strictly yes you would also reject Islam then.
Even though the core of Islam 'there is no god but God' has no relation with the above concept.
The thing is Islam has to be accepted whole heartedly and not in bits & pieces. Practising it in bit and pieces is something else.
Telling you my own point of view.

01-27-06, 03:53 PM
juanruiz

quote:
Practising it in bit and pieces is something else.



Understood. My reading of Islamic history makes me think that its basics have been overshadowed by other things, same with Judaism and Christianity. Not many speak anymore about Islam and the individual, the "salaam" achieved by totally giving oneself to the will of Allah.

01-27-06, 03:53 PM
bik74
Yes

01-27-06, 03:57 PM
bik74
'Islam' yes 'to enter into peace' by surrendering ones will to God. And by accepting the will of GOD in times of trouble and pain.

01-27-06, 04:05 PM
juanruiz
To follow up on this, it seems that for over a millenium the three religions under study here have served as a pretext for political action; the individual has disappeared. The Jew and good works, the Christian and salvation, the Moslem and peace. Instead, you have Crusades, jihads, and the like, whose whole purpose is conquest and power; secular power, not spiritual advancement.

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