"As he wrapped up a visit to Australia on Sunday, Pope Benedict XVI warned a crowd of 400,000 young people that a feeling of spiritual emptiness often accompanies material wealth.

He urged them to avoid the pitfalls of prosperity as he led an outdoor mass for pilgrims who had gathered for the Roman Catholic church's six-day World Youth Day festival in Sydney." [from cbc.com]

I am at a bit of a loss here in attempting to reconcile the pope's message with his own situation. There are few organizations which have greater prosperity, nor individuals who enjoy greater luxury than the Vatican hierarchy. Yet the pope feels the need to admonish Catholic youth that prosperity may nullify spirituality or at least deaden it. Is this a case in which he is oblivious to his own situation? Is he implying he has overcome the peril? As I say, it's one thing for Jesus to make statements on wealth and poverty. His vicar hardly seems adequate to offer the same analogous admonitions, given his circumstances.

What concerns me more than the hypocritical behavior of the Pope, and the Catholic Church, is that 400,000 young people felt strongly enough to attend this event, and hear this charlatan speak. ( As a parent of teens, I know that it's next to impossible to get them to attend something they have no interest in.)

400,000 ! Glastonbury 2008 only got 150,000 on a daily basis. These kids need to get a life. I guess religion is alive and well, and the next generation is already indoctrinated.

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is that 400,000 young people felt strongly enough to attend this event

You have to understand this is a monstrous event for the Catholic youth faithful. They plan way ahead to attend, get extra jobs to earn the money, and are incredibly enthusiastic
(etymological pun intended) about it. I know a girl who went to several of them, but then she was the equivalent of a charismatic Protestant believer.

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You have to understand this is a monstrous event for the Catholic youth faithful. They plan way ahead to attend, get extra jobs to earn the money, and are incredibly enthusiastic

I do understand, and it's flippin' freaky. They should be earning extra money to go see Coldplay for christ's sakes or ..something!

I can hardly believe that dg is surprised that the Pope draws a crowd! He isn't some mega-church pastor, he's the leader of a church that has around 1.1 billion followers.

If 400,000 people of any age went to a Coldplay concert, that would be too depressing for words.

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If 400,000 people of any age went to a Coldplay concert, that would be too depressing for words.

lol. Well I did add, "....or something."

Something. . . . Anything. . . .

Well, I fantasize that I will someday be the guest speaker in an event on The Great Lawn in Central Park.

Wow, Tsaeb, that's a lot of book sales right there.

I will have to remember to full check out the list of speakers before attending any pseudo-religious or spiritual event. Of course, I rarely even get to Pagan Pride these days, much less anything cultish and pope-led...

It does frighten me that 400,000 young people would feel so drawn to the pope's message that they had to attend this mass chastism. But JR brings up a valid point: does no one notice the blatant hypocrisy? Or it is just another case of "do as I say, not as I do"?

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Well, I fantasize that I will someday be the guest speaker in an event on The Great Lawn in Central Park.

A more scenic location would be at the fountain and pool near the band shell. I have also seen speakers at the square on 5th Ave. and Central Park So. across from the Plaza Hotel.

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Or it is just another case of "do as I say, not as I do"?

This is certainly not meant as a defense, but by the time you become pope, you have also become so used to the life style, the deference, people kissing your ring, the whole modus vivendi of being a prince of the Church, you may be absolutely unaware of how far you have drifted away from Jesus' admonitions on wealth, worldly power, and splendor.

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Originally posted by dg:
Wow, Tsaeb, that's a lot of book sales right there.

Don't be getting so reverential: it's still tsaeb with a small "t"!

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He urged them to avoid the pitfalls of prosperity

And instead, tithe

'nuf said

gizmogram: No, not 'nuf said, because you never tried tithing, or did ya? BTW, I am glad to see you back--at this time, with some light naysaying, I see.

I beg your pardon tsaeb...but yes, I have, and didn't care for it one bit. Being forced, basically, by your church, to give 10% (or whatever) of your annual income, isn't my idea of faith.

Years ago, when I wanted to get my oldest daughter baptised, we were attending the Lutheran Church that we got married in...this was over 30 years ago btw.

She was baptised, and we went most Sundays...the time came when they sent home "the envelope", asking for your projected financial committment to them for the coming year.

At the time, we were a young married couple, barely making it anyway, so were unable to commit to a percentage of our income. I volunteered my services in other ways; day care, helping with Sunday School, etc., but was told that just wouldn't do.

THAT is what finally turned me away from the church...although I was well on my way anyway, because I didn't believe half of what was being preached.

So yes, tsaeb, 'nuf said

I won't be stopping by religions often, but might from time to time, just to say hi

gizmogram: Just as I am surprised to see that you are almost as old as I am , I hope to surprise you with the following. I do agree with you that 1) many interpretations are incorrect and that 2) had they been more patient with your fear/doubt of letting loose of your money and had they explained that you should just begin by getting your feet wet instead of committing to a year's membership/blessing/whatever. . . .

It reminds me of how my mother was trying to get me baptized at a time when my father was unemployed, and she finally got the job done for free in a church further away, which is where I subsequently made my Communion and Confirmation. These days I am not much of a Catholic.

P.S. One should tithe with a clean heart and a cheerful spirit. Maybe you can better achieve this towards a secular charity and achieve the same reward which you (hopefully) would have gotten with a donation to God's religious work, given that it seems to me that donating to a secular charity is also God's idea of tithing. Yet, He does not want to be thoroughly omitted, certainly not from one's clean heart and cheerful spirit toward Him. Well, your relationship/nonrelationship with Him is your business. I am merely musing aloud my complete thought about God, tithing, and people generally.

Giz, I find I’m more comfortable giving when I have a good understanding of where the money is going. With religious charities and organizations, it is often hard to see what good they do -and often their potential good is limited or discriminatory.
I certainly don’t give to put myself into anyone’s god’s good graces, but secular charities are definitely a way to do some good in the world without it having the smack of religion. One could start with Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Efforts, also known as S.H.A.R.E., where "you can pool your resources with other like-minded individuals who wish to affect change in the world because they are humanists, and they are humane" and I recently came across GlobalGiving Green, a "marketplace of goodness--where donors connect directly with community-based projects that need support."

But I would never be comfortable with giving money simply because it was expected. I have the same problem with union dues and membership fees and any charity that too often or too demandingly solicits funds from me is quickly scratched from my list of worthy causes. I give because I want to, not because anyone says I must.

What bugs me is when I get an envelope with money in it, the money supposedly acting as an inducement to me to give more of it to the charity. I give the small change (although one time I pocketed a dollar) to my mother and daughter piggy banks--and I shake my head in dismay from left to right, indicating that no, I will not send money to this charity. P.S. I also unglue a few stamps from a few return envelopes, and that seems to bug a few folks, but the money saved when I glue them on my envelopes adds up to a donation to another charity. After all, I can't give to them all.

A democratic government should be scrupulously secular. The idea of granting tax exemptions to religious organizations is a ridiculous slippery slope which has resulted in the abuses of charity in general. As Elexina observes, charity consists of giving from the heart. When every Tom. Dick, and Harry with a claim to some religious or charitable "worthy" cause is legally entitled to collect other people's money, who is to say that one's fund-raising expenses also may not result in the proliferation of such enterprises? If the charity can afford all of the unsolicited junk mail, doesn't that add to the cost of my first class mail? If they can afford to send me a dollar bill, just because I contribute to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and the dollar sender wants me to send the dollar back along with ten or fifteen more to the Veteran's With Urticaria or some such - I, like Tsaeb, pocket it. Come to think of it, why don't you and I, 'Lexi, start a fundraiser for the Beasty Girl Prophetic Mission?. We could just keep 80 percent of what we raise, tax exempt?