This may come as a surprise to all the Christians awaiting the return of Jesus Christ, but, ah, he's already here! Musta come in the back door or something.
"Dr. Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda opened up his church 14 years ago after declaring that he is Jesus Christ, and now he says he has taken this thinking to another level, by rejecting the relevance of Christ and referring to himself as the Antichrist. He has since taken on many followers as well as words of criticism."
Hmm. So he's not the ante-Christ either. Doesn't Christ require another 'ante- ' for the Second Coming like He had John the Baptist the first time ? Who would that be now?
Oh Yah No man can say I am Christ for a very simple reason and that reason is that the answer from all points of view is, "You are". It is revealed through a process of being a doer of the word and not a hearer only. This comes with no respect of persons.
To prove it one has to but;Put hither thy finger and behold my hands. Try it once and it will be your own hand which is seen and that is why no man can say I am Christ. Romans 14:22 KJV
Posts: 1771 | Location: Kingsford, MI USA | Registered: 06-13-02
It may well be true that everyone is Jesus - it makes a smuch sense as other dogma. However, as we've discussed at length before, the idea is not supported by that quote.
'25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.'
If you take those eight words out of context, you can make it look like they mean what you want them to, but you've taken them out of context. They clearly don't mean to say that your own hand is Christ's.
Since the kingdom of God is within you, and since the kingdom is God + the Word + the Holy Spirit + Jesus, Jesus returns to those who seek first the kingdom. The Jesus who returns in this way is the Jesus of whom it can be said that Jesus is Lord. So God with His various manifestations indwells those who seek Him. This is nothing new, but what Jesus meant when he said that His Father and he are one.
I wonder how Phil works out the hand-in-the-side part:
"To prove it one has to but;Put hither thy finger and behold my hands. Try it once and it will be your own hand which is seen and that is why no man can say I am Christ. Romans 14:22 KJV"
"...and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side..."
Following the model of finger & hand, I reached forth my hand and tried to thrust it into my side, where the soldier's spear had entered after I died. Guess what. There was no spear-wound in my side. I reluctantly concluded I am not Jesus.
Posts: 6257 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
Originally posted by babthrower: I wonder how Phil works out the hand-in-the-side part:
"To prove it one has to but;Put hither thy finger and behold my hands. Try it once and it will be your own hand which is seen and that is why no man can say I am Christ. Romans 14:22 KJV"
"...and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side..."
Following the model of finger & hand, I reached forth my hand and tried to thrust it into my side, where the soldier's spear had entered after I died. Guess what. There was no spear-wound in my side. I reluctantly concluded I am not Jesus.
Why didn't Jones, Moon, Koresh, Bar Kocba, Zevi, or Jacob Frank, among many, many others, do this?. It's so simple, it is ingenious.
On second thought, strike out Moon. He claimed to be Almighty GOD.
Teshuvah
Posts: 39 | Location: Eastern time U.S.A. | Registered: 09-09-07
Teshuvah: Although most (careful, not all) of us know a joke when we see one, any one of us can start bashing another when we misunderstand what another is saying. Translation: save the apologies for when they are really needed.
You remind me of an experience I had at work many years ago. Someone shouted, "Oh, God!" Another answered, "Do you have an appointment?"
That's a good question, Tesh. We have lost some very good posters, Christians.
It's a bit of a tough call. If we pussyfoot when we don't agree, say, with someone's claim to have the straight poop from the lips of the Creator himself, we lose force.
If we're too harsh, we turn people away.
I like to think I have not 'bashed' those members I miss, such as Velvet Voice and DonaDiana. I like to think that I only bash those who persist in their folly.
Posts: 6257 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
babthrower: Then, since you persist in your folly, you should bash yourself. That would certainly solve a problem around here: you.
Teshuvah: Truly, after a while you will learn that religion posters are adamant in their views, do not readily change them, and thus present some expectedly tiring views at times, which is why we do a bit of needling, although some get outrightly cruel. Don't be alarmed: lately, babs and I have only been funning each other.
How many members have we lost to unctuous and hypocritical civility? Hope springs eternal within the hearts of the persistent proselytizers. Only a stake driven through the heart is effective in those cases. Tsaeb has the skin of a crocodile, IMHO.
The only civility of any kind that I have witnessed is among the participants of this forum.
The forum above this one is nearly inactive.
The apostasy of the most active forum in the religions section is a travesty. Apostasy and bashing is a good reason to, as Babthrower has stated,have lost some very good posters, Christians.
Posts: 39 | Location: Eastern time U.S.A. | Registered: 09-09-07
Originally posted by newnickname: It may well be true that everyone is Jesus - it makes a smuch sense as other dogma. However, as we've discussed at length before, the idea is not supported by that quote.
'25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.'
If you take those eight words out of context, you can make it look like they mean what you want them to, but you've taken them out of context. They clearly don't mean to say that your own hand is Christ's.
Is it really out of context if it is written that there is no respect of persons and also one is to be a doer of the word and not a hearer only and also that what is said to one is said to all??????? Remember, the door being shut but yet he entered in. A word can pass through a closed door. Holler from outside a closed door to someone inside and I betcha they will hear your words. Kinda simple HEY?
Posts: 1771 | Location: Kingsford, MI USA | Registered: 06-13-02
