|
|
|
Go  |
Post |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Site
Administrator
|
Apparently not. Press Release
The Secular Coalition for America (SCA) will award one thousand dollars ($1,000) to the person who identifies the highest level atheist, humanist, freethinker or other nontheist currently holding elected public office in the United States of America.* The SCA (www.secular.org) is an advocacy organization representing the interests of nontheists in the nation’s capital.
Although our Constitution states “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States,” the religion of our elected officials figures prominently in America. As a nation, we have made progress in preventing religious bias from influencing some electoral choices. John F. Kennedy in 1960 was the first Roman Catholic to become President and Keith Ellison from Minnesota, if elected this November, would become the first Muslim to be elected to Congress; however, American atheists, humanists, freethinkers and other nontheists are invisible in the electoral arena.
“Ask most people if they would vote for an atheist and the immediate response would be a firm ‘No!,’ and they would not consider their response to be bigoted” said Lori Lipman Brown, Director of the SCA. “Anyone would think it’s bigoted if we said we wouldn’t vote for
somebody simply because he or she is a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, but very proudly they’ll say ‘I would never vote for an Atheist.’”
Although religious fundamentalists caused the carnage on September 11, 2001, it is the nontheists who appear to be losing ground in the post-9/11 world of public opinion. A 1999 Gallup poll found that 49 percent of Americans would vote for an otherwise-qualified atheist for president; however, in a recent Newsweek poll that number dropped to 37 percent.
Nontheists contribute to the American way of life in all other professions including scientists, entrepreneurs, doctors, authors, engineers, and soldiers; they should not be excluded from public service.
“We’re here to show that nontheists are good citizens and good patriots,” Brown said. “We won’t be left out of the political process any longer, and we won’t allow the religious right to demonize us any longer. We’ll put our morals and our patriotism up against theirs any day.”
Help the Secular Coalition for America find the nontheist public servants who have been able to serve their communities in spite of the irrational bigotry against their religious perspective. For more information on the contest and its rules go to www.secular.org/contest/. The mission of the Secular Coalition for America is to increase the visibility and respectability of nontheistic viewpoints and strengthen the secular character of our government as the best guarantee of freedom for all.
*pursuant to the rules, terms, and conditions found at www.secular.org/contest/rules.I found several references implying that there have been no openly atheistic members of Congress, although may Congressmen, especially lately, seem not to believe in a Judgement Day. |
| |
| Posts: 17655 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
'KING: Do you ever think of running for office?
[Ron] REAGAN: No...
KING: You've got a pretty good name going in.
REAGAN: It seems to work for some people.
KING: Wouldn't hurt you.
REAGAN: No, I'm not really cut out to be a politician. You know that I sometimes don't know when to shut up. That could be a drawback. I'm an atheist. So there you go right there. I can't be elected to anything because polls all say that people won't elect an atheist.' transcripts.cnn.com
|
| |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
That's not President Reagan, but his son. I don't know if he has ever been elected to anything.
The SNL underwear Hall of Fame. |
| |
| Posts: 7732 | Location: On Vacation | Registered: 06-06-02 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
quote: Originally posted by babthrower:
Clue: atheists see no important ethical problem with telling a lie if it doesn't hurt anyone. They believe this because they don't think anyone is listening to their innermost thoughts, ready to punish them if they disbelieve in the listener or if they tell a lie that is not justified by their faith in the aforementioned listener to their innermost, etc.
But what about lying to themselves babs, and to those that matter most to them? I'm not talking about elected officials here, but just ordinary people. If someone asks you if you believe, and you don't, I agree that sometimes it is easier to give some vague answer about being raised say, in a particular denomination, rather than out and out saying you don't believe. But isn't that lying to yourself, and if you have children, showing them you don't have the courage to stand up for your own convictions? |
| |
| Posts: 3134 | Location: Ontario, Canada | Registered: 10-27-06 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
quote: Originally posted by Sarai:
Has an atheist ever won a seat in the US senate or congress? How about an agnostic?
Certainly. Why, right on this board we have professing believers who are atheists and professing atheists who are believers. Who babbles what where might depend on the side of the bed on which he/she awakened. Anyway, who would be so naive as to believe a politician, when no one can please all of the people all of the time? In other words, compromises of tongue have to made sooner or later. |
| |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
quote: we have professing believers who are atheists and professing atheists who are believers
I sure would like to know who. |
| |
| Posts: 7732 | Location: On Vacation | Registered: 06-06-02 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
"But what about lying to themselves, babs, and to those that matter most to them? I'm not talking about elected officials here, but just ordinary people. If someone asks you if you believe, and you don't, I agree that sometimes it is easier to give some vague answer about being raised say, in a particular denomination, rather than out and out saying you don't believe. But isn't that lying to yourself, and if you have children, showing them you don't have the courage to stand up for your own convictions?" Dance Girl wants to explore this idea. Lying to oneself is not a victimless crime. (First we have to define lying: To make a false statement knowing it to be false and with the intent to deceive.) If I drink alcohol too much, and tell myself 'Oh, no harm done. You can afford it. It doesn't hurt anyone.' Meantime my teen -aged children are ashamed to bring their friends home after 5 p.m. because my speech will be slurred and I will be making pointless jokes at which only I laugh and flirting with their friends, I'm hurting my children and myself. But think about this: in the long and bloody history of religion, Catholics have been killed by Protestants, Jews killed by both, and Muslims and Christians have killed each other, but the number of atheists killed is very small. Yet it's hard to beleive there were no atheists around. I think we have been running stable, at about 15% of the population, forever. But we lied and pretended to belong to the dominant church, cavalierly switching sides when the previously dominant church was on the wane, and not sweating it. That kind of lying is called 'survival'. And we did not feel the need to justify our lie to a higher power: the state was the highest power we knew of that gave a damn. (Nature is higher than the state, but doesn't give a damn.) I agree that giving your children a false idea that you are religious is harmful to them; but if you are an atheist in a hostile environment it's probably far less harmful than telling them the truth, and having them, in their innocence, blurt it out. It was said that children as young as seven were burned as witches or heretics during the worst bloody times, since a child of seven had reached 'the age of reason' and was responsible for its choices. It's one of those things that you explain to them when 'they're older', as the saying goes. But there are atheist downright liars and there are theist downright liars. And both of them can end up elected in a democratic system.  |
| |
| Posts: 6788 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
I don't spend a great deal of time worrying: whether about my sins of omission, such as failing to provide a truthful answer to the busybody inquiring as to my faith in God, or to the effect on my children upon discovering their father's duplicity. I try to be scrupuloulsy honest in important matters but sometimes I lack the courage to insult those who feel compelled to reinforce their own beliefs through recruiting others. When I feel that the person inquiring is too ignorant, naive, or intolerant to handle a truthful answer, I do my best to avoid answering, or offer a meaningless euphemism in place of a bald-faced lie. I'm often tempted to use the one I sometimes resort to when people ask tactless questions such as "how much did that cost?" I often say, "Why do you ask?"
Am I mistaken, or isn't there a widespread suspicion that Lincoln was either an agnostic or atheist?
|
| |
| Posts: 7250 | Location: Baltimore, MD, U.S.A | Registered: 06-03-02 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
quote: Am I mistaken, or isn't there a widespread suspicion that Lincoln was either an agnostic or atheist?
If memory serves me correctly, that was one of Gore Vidal's surmisings. |
| |
| Posts: 7732 | Location: On Vacation | Registered: 06-06-02 | |
|
Platinum
Enthusiast
|
Frank, your post reminds me of an old poem by Bob Dylan. quote: stay in line. stay in step. people
are afraid of someone who is not
in step with them. it makes them
look foolish t' themselves for
being in step. it might even
cross their minds that they themselves
are in the wrong step. do not run
nor cross the red line. if you go
too far out in any direction, they
will lose sight of you. they'll feel
threatened. thinking that they are
not a part of something that they
saw go past them, they'll feel
something's going on up there that
they don't know about. revenge
will set in. they will start thinking
of how t' get rid of you. act
mannerly towards them. if you don't,
they will take it personal. as you
come directly in contact face t' face
do not make it a secret of how
much you need them. if they sense
that you have no need for them,
the first thing they will do is
try t' make you need them. if
this doesn't work, they will tell
you of how much they don't need
you. if you do not show any sadness
at a remark such as this, they
will immediately tell other people
of how much they don't need you.
your name will begin t' come up
in circles where people gather
to tell about all the people they
don't need. you will begin t' get
famous this way. this, though, will
only get the people who you don't need
in the first place
all the more madder.
you will become
a whole topic of conversation.
needless t' say, these people
who don't need you will start
hating themselves for needing t' talk
about you. then you yourself will
start hating yourself for causing so
much hate. as you can see, it will
all end in one great gunburst.
never trust a cop in a raincoat.
when asked t' define yourself exactly,
say you are an exact mathematician.
do not say or do anything that
he who standing in front of you
watching cannot understand, he will
feel you know something he
doesn't. he will react with blinding
speed and write your name down.
talk on his terms. if his terms
are old-fashioned an' you've
passed that stage all the more easier
t' get back there. say what he
can understand clearly. say it simple
t' keep your tongue out of your
cheek. after he hears you, he can
label you good or bad. anyone will
do. t' some people, there is only
good an' bad. in any case, it will
make him feel somewhat important.
it is better t' stay away from
these people. be careful of
enthusiasm...it is all temporary
an' don't let it sway you. when asked
if you go t' church, always answer
yes, never look at your shoes. when
asked you you think of gene autrey
singing of hard rains gonna fall say
that nobody can sing it as good as
peter, paul and mary. at the mention
of the president's name, eat a pint of
yogurt an' go t' sleep early...when
asked if you're a communist, sing
america the beautiful in an
italian accent. beat up nearest
street cleaner. if by any
chance you're caught naked in a
parked car, quick turn the radio on
full blast an' pretend
that you're driving. never leave
the house without a jar of peanut
butter. do not wear
matched socks. when asked to do 100
pushups always smoke a pound
of deodorant beforehand.
when asked if you're a capitalist, rip
open your shirt, sing buddy can
you spare a dime with your
right foot forward an' proceed t'
chew up a dollar bill.
do not sign any dotted line. do not
fall in trap of criticizing people
who do nothing else but criticize.
do Not create anything. it will be
misinterpreted. it will not change.
it will follow you the
rest of your life. when asked what you
do for a living say you laugh for
a living. be suspicious of people
who say that if you are not nice
t' them, they will commit suicide.
when asked if you care about
the world's problems, look deeply
into the eyes of he that asks
you, he will not ask you again. when
asked if you've spent time in jail,
announce proudly that some of your
best friends've asked you that.
beware of bathroom walls that've not
been written on. when told t' look at
yourself...never look. when asked
t' give your real name...never give it.
"...when asked if you go t' church, always answer yes, never look at your shoes." Not such bad advice, I guess.  |
| |
| Posts: 2248 | Location: In between | Registered: 06-03-02 | |
|
Diamond
Enthusiast
|
quote: Originally posted by babthrower:
Dance Girl wants to explore this idea.
I agree that giving your children a false idea that you are religious is harmful to them; but if you are an atheist in a hostile environment it's probably far less harmful than telling them the truth, and having them, in their innocence, blurt it out. It was said that children as young as seven were burned as witches or heretics during the worst bloody times, since a child of seven had reached 'the age of reason' and was responsible for its choices. It's one of those things that you explain to them when 'they're older', as the saying goes.
I understand that babs, but most of us here live in a society where we won't be burnt at the stake for our beliefs, or lack of them. I never want my children to bow their heads in shame that they are not christians. They are taught to hold their heads up, look people in the eye, and basically say, "Thanks, but no thanks." We live in an extremely religious and conservative community, but I find that if people know one's position on religion, and that their right to believe is not being threatened, then there generally isn't a problem. We choose our battles of course, but I would never say I am Christian, just to cover up an awkward moment. Until we as citizens speak out about what we truly believe, we can hardly expect those that represent us to have the confidence to do so either. |
| |
| Posts: 3134 | Location: Ontario, Canada | Registered: 10-27-06 | |
|
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
© 2002-2008 AnswerPool.com
Visit DiscussionPool.com! |
