People say rap isn't music. Because apparently it's violent, degrades women, and has too much profanity.
How come nobody seems to complain about movies that are the same or worse?
Violence: Pulp Fiction, Freddy Kruger movies, Terminator 2...The fool gets shot several times on that movie...Nobody complained.

Movies Degrading women: ShowGirls- so much nudity and sexual content it ain't even funny. Nobody protested or complained.
StripTease: the woman stripped for a living to support herself....Severeal rap songs talk about women doing the same thing...
Profanity: Don't even get me started, every movie has profanity in it. Even Shows on the Disney Chanel have the words "Damn" "Hell" and "Crap"...

Why is it when these women and men make music with the truth in it and some profanity everybody gets on their case about it.

Hey KK this should be the new topic for the debate.

People do complain. In fact, there
have been numerous lawsuits against
filmmakers claiming that their films
have incited violent acts. You tend
to notice the complaints against rap
music more because it is something
that you care about. I find most rap,
well, boring. It just does not do
anything for me personally.

Dogspit, on answerpool, they are only complaining about Rap.

Daytime soaps are full of sex and nudity and cartoons are violent, with fighting content in them. That lady on The Saturday Night Sex Show can tell you things that even I haven't heard of. So you see there has to be another underlying reason why the people here are so against Rap. Go figure.

quote:

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Originally posted by honilov:
Dogspit, on answerpool, they are only complaining about Rap.

Daytime soaps are full of sex and nudity and cartoons are violent, with fighting content in them. That lady on The Saturday Night Sex Show can tell you things that even I haven't heard of. So you see there has to be another underlying reason why the people here are so against Rap. Go figure.

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Honilov, I haven't seen anyone on here complaining about rap in many, many months. On the other hand, I've seen people ranting and complaining about all kinds of other things. As Dogspit points out, there are quite a few places that people see "corruption of the youth".

I definetly have never seen nudity on TV and sex is pretty rare though. Violent cartoons are pretty rare, too.

If someone is complaining about rap though they are misinformed on it's diversity.

Jusork, I said what I did because Ron had opened a new topic about Rap. Maybe it has been months but the fact remains that there have been a lot of heated criticism here. There might be other places where people see corruption of the youth, but Rap seem to be focal point on answerpool for this corruption. How many times have you seen on AP where movies, sitcoms, or talk shows have been negative for youth? I thought Ron was talking about the members here that's always degrading Rap, and if you notice, Dogspit was talking about people other than here. That make my post very valid for the topic.

it's because Rap reveals the ugly side of America. Thats why people focus on it.
They gotta find a reason why the kids act up. Why kids shoot up schools, or join gangs, and commit crimes.
White America has to blame somebody. All those Suits up in there offices drinking their latte's don't want their kids to be exposed to what goes on beyond their bronze gates and private schools.

Rap lets people know in the rawest form what goes on a lot better than the news does. It's the most natural form of spreading the word. People don't wanna hear it because they know that it's the truth whats going on out there.
Somebody shoots up Columbine, who do they blame? Marilyn Manson? LIke Eminem said, Where were the parents.
How is it you're good parents, when your teenager has an arsenal in his room that would make the military jealous?
It's easier to blame the music than it is to blame who really needs to be blamed with violence.....THE PERSON WHO COMMITED THE CRIME!

[This message was edited by SeattleRon on 11-12-03 at 01:49 AM.]

Ron, you are so right. They need to place the blame where it belongs. As much as you joke around, you can get serious when you need to. Keep on keeping on.

it's fun to joke around, but it's good to be serious too honilov. Thanks for the comment.

I’m guilty of complaining about rap in the past.

I think the difference here is not simply about rap vs. movies, but music, in general, vs. movies. They are two different forms of media and are apples and oranges in the world of entertainment. Music brings with it, its own culture because the artists are real, and they are portraying themselves, (usually). The movie industry gets away with more violence and sexual situations because the movies are produced and offered as fiction, and the viewers know that what he sees in a given actor is not reality. Everybody knows Arnold Swartz-a-thingy is not an android from our future, just as they know he would probably really suck as a kindergarten teacher. My point is one day the real person (actor) can be one thing, and the next day another, so the scripts and characters have little effect on society from a cultural standpoint.

With music, specifically rap, the violence depicted is all too real and given to target audiences on a silver platter, garnishing it all with gold chains, shiny cars, terribly mis-fitting clothes, and real life experiences of street survival. (How many times did fifty get shot? And why is it important that his fans know this?)

I realize now that rap is not a bad thing in itself, but what is wrong, and something that really needs to change in this world, is the street culture most often rapped about. I would love for my children to one day visit all the great cities in our country, but they don’t deserve to be subjected to any street violence just because some orphaned boy needs a fix and is too lazy to get a decent job or a better education. These rap artists should keep rapping about this stuff, but gear up towards finding resolve to the problems, instead of embellishing them.

Kendor, you just don't get it.

There will always be violence in all cities, on many streets, with all cultures involved, so it appears that you will never be able to take your children down the streets.
Street violence is not caused by some orphaned boy that needs a fix and is too lazy to get a decent job. Most of the violence in the news are caused by rich kids that are so bored with their money that they need to shoot up a lot of people. Problem is, they don't have the talent to rap about how depressed and insane that they are. You never knew they were lazy because Mommy and Daddy handed them everything on a silver platter, while they are at home plotting how to wipe out people and places. Some kind of culture!!!!
You might not believe it, but a lot of people wanted to know how many times 50 Cent has been stabbed/shot or whatever.

As far as movies are concerned, it's not whether it's only acting...it's the contents that's being seen that I'm talking about. It's things that people actually do in real life, and kids are influenced by it whether real or fiction. Seeing is believing.

Honi, your entire middle post sounds too much like a rant. Why are you pushing so much blame on rich kids?

Violence could come from a lot of different reasons. I think we all realize that violence will happen. The basic point we're looking at here is that there is quite a bit of rap that is just pushing stuff on an album just because it's like the thing to do(I agree with that; personally though I don't wish they would change because it's obscene or it's bad for kids). Ever since Tupac's death though, the level of gangsta rapping has dropped a lot(party-rap is much more popular). Many improvements have been made and I see the more popular rappers trying to branch out into new things and being less predictable in the future.

And I think 50 Cent's life is brought up just because it's a fact. They do seem to bring it up more than enough, I don't think that many people care that much except for those who are curious about the fact.

Because rich kids witness problems, but their problems don't compare to what happens in the Ghetto.
I grew up poor as hell. Even though my old man was in the navy. Even before I was old enough to work. I was out there tryin to make money. Before they filed bankruptcy or whatever I lived that life that they talk about in those songs.
People choose to ignore what is actually going on in the ghettos of America. If we got money to spend on a dumbass war. Why don't we have the cash to help ourselves?
I may not be a part of the respectable military, I seen things that you never wanna see man.
I lived the ghetto. Feeding all my cousins off welfare and foodstamps.
I been shot 3 times all at once. I been stabbed.
Rap is real and if you don't know why it's real. Then you don't got no damn business criticising it.....

Kendor, there is nothing in my post about racism, so I know you are not talking to me, but what Ron said is truth, and you know it.

Jusork, the reason I mentioned rich kids is because of Kendor's statement...'some orphaned boy needs a fix and is too lazy to get a decent job or a better education'. How does that statement sound to you?
These rich kids are lazy too because their parents are making them lazy.

I'm not ranting but I'm for real and I will tell you like it is, whether you like it or not. What I say is not geered toward anyone here, but it's geered toward life.

I still don't understand. Can anyone explain why these rappers are glorifying this street life, instead of trying to change it. And don't tell me it doesn't need fixing because it does. Hell, Ron even agrees with me on that. His quote:

"People choose to ignore what is actually going on in the ghettos of America. If we got money to spend on a dumbass war. Why don't we have the cash to help ourselves?"

Too bad these rap artists can't come up with any money to donate to the cause.

Puff daddy recently ran a marathon to benefit the childrens education for 1 million dollars.
Snoop Dogg visits schools and teaches kids that education is important.
There is a Tupac Shakur charity fund that helps ghetto youths and people.
The rappers aren't trying to glorify the street life by saying what they say. They are just trying to tell it like it is. A lot of people never saw that life.
PLenty of rappers donate their money and most importantly their time to the cause.
All people want to see though is the bad side. What happens is the people see the bad side of rappers because thats what the media glorifies. You can do a million good deeds, but the minute you do one wrong thing. That outshines everything else.
Clintons presidency was great, but the minute he got caught cheating on his wife. His whole campaign when down the tubes.
Just because you're in the spotlight it doesn't make you holier than thou. We are all human beings and we all make mistakes.

These rappers grew up making mistakes, but mostly they did what they did because they didn't know any better. The important thing is that now that their grown they are making money legitimately and not by selling drugs and shooting people.
They learned as they grew. They are showing the youth of America that no matter how broke or hopeless you are. You still have the ability to go out there, make something of yourself and become whatever you want.
You have the ability to be a leader of a multi million dollar industry.
With these people making something of themselves and making a dollar out of 15 cents it gives hope to all the people and the kids who live a life on welfare, who live a life broke in the projects with no electricity.
The Sky's the limit and you can have what you want and be what you want.

[This message was edited by SeattleRon on 11-15-03 at 04:25 PM.]

Very nicely said, Ron.

Kendor, I don't think you'd ever understand. You'd have to walk in their shoes to know. Some of these rappers have never lived this life, but this is their career of making a living, instead of being lazy, as you put it. The ones that have lived this life are just making a living of their rap, the same reason you work to making a living. People have different careers. I'd rather rap than be a mortician. We make choices and I'm sure some people wouldn't agree with yours. You have a choice to control what your kids hear while they are young and when they get older, they'll listen to what they choose anyway. So just lighten up off the rappers and think of it as earning a living. I've never had to live a ghetto life, but I understand the people that struggled through it, which could be whole new topic.

I gotta respect you though, for your concern for your kids.

quote:

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Originally posted by SeattleRon:
The important thing is that now that their grown they are making money legitimately and not by selling drugs and shooting people.

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You sure about that?

Listen Ron, I'm no longer so against rap as I used to be. I really like you and you’ve gained my respect, what with your love of beer and all. I've listened to you and jusork and others, and I realize that my first impressions of rap may have been clouded simply by my hate of bad, self centered, shallow people. I've heard of some artists doing good things like you mentioned, but it just isn't enough. Their millionaire asses stand there with the mic in one hand, and their balls in the other, wearing pants that 3 men could fit in, and gold jewelry everywhere, all the while rapping about a 5 year old child that got shot because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, all because some loser pissed off another loser over guns, drugs, or a woman. Sure they’re rapping about the truth, but why don’t they rap about going to school or getting a good job or starting a family and getting the hell out of the ghetto? I’ll tell you why; BECAUSE THAT WOULDN’T BE COOL! And disregarding righteousness for the sake of being ‘cool’ is the most asinine and selfish act in the world.

And honi, I have lightened up on rappers. I was responding to ron’s post about violence in music vs. violence in the movies. All of my responses were an effort to explain my opinion on the matter. And if I can revert back to an earlier inquiry to you, “Why do you feel that there will always be street violence in the cities?” If that’s true then I’m ashamed to be part of the human race.

If I could just insert my two cents.....

Too bad, gonna anyway.

I have had the "rap IS music" debate many times, and I do agree that it is an art form and a form of musical expression (think about the gregorian chants...for example)

I think what turns most people off is the negative picture painted by most rap songs. I have a hard time listening to rap because of the bad taste it leaves in my mouth....maybe because it is so true.

There used to be rap I enjoyed...Will Smith, ton loc, young Mc (yes, I know..I am dating myself there) and one thing that they have in common....very little said (at least in the songs I am familiar with) is the amount of talk of gangs and violence.

I think my fear (only speaking for myself now) is that that violence is being glorified. Kids see these guys, and the only news you hear about them is the negative and then their lyrics reflect that as well.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts, for what its worth.

Kendor, you wanted know why I think there will always be violence in the cities, well I don't have any documented statistics on this. It appears that generations are getting weaker, and this could very well lead to continued violence. Stress and depression is on the rise. Divorce rates are up, which affect kids and more and more parents are home on crack/drugs or showing domestic violence, and kids are turning to the streets to feel loved and belonged. Once they are out there, violence is the only way to satisfy their greed. There are drugs in the streets that the 'big dogs' will continue to put them out in the ghetto, while they sit on their throne and get rich from it. Most of the street violence nowadays stems from drugs, wheras gangs are not the only ones dealing drugs.
Bottom line, (and you know this) as long as there are drugs in the streets, there will be violence. Will the big dogs quit distributing drugs in the streets? No.
It all boils down to where it look like the lazy/ghetto/rappers are the worst kind of people there is, but let's check ourselves, and think...are they?
Don't put all the blame down on the streets...look up to where it started. If we start cleaning house from the top and work down, then maybe the streets will be safe for you and your kids, and you can be glad to be part of the human race again.