did you guys see when Kanye West got on the TV?
was he right or wrong for saying those things?

http://www.1funny.com/kanyewesthurricane/shtml

Thanks for the link, but those sites can be a little sketchy. I don't know about you, but it didn't work for me.

Here's a more reliable site to view it on for those who'd like to see it.

This racial topic in regards to Katrina has already come up a few times in Current Events. As he starts, what he says seems somewhat justified. But towards the end, it just sounds like he's ranting absurdly, peaking with that now notorious line. I don't really know about the media since I haven't been watching the news on TV, but I don't think it's right to make it into a racial issue. What's true about the whole thing is that the government was inefficient. And what in the world does he mean that soldiers are "given permission to shoot us?" (Shoot black people I'm guessing, but what the hell?)

I don't know. It did seem that way for a while.
The media was showing a lot of black people looting and when they showed white people they were taking food. Then again what they did show was exactly what was happening.
Kanye West like everybody else is just frustrated. I believe him though when he says George Bush doesn't care about black people.

I think Kanye West was frustrated and said what he felt. If he really felt that way, he had a right to freedom of speech. If he didn't feel that way and was just shooting the breeze, then he was wrong to say it. As it appeared, they were only showing black people, they were begging for help, no one was helping them, so it seemed like someone didn't like them, and by Bush being the leader of our country, it's understandable, in a heated moment, for Kanye to lash out at him.

They also said that the blacks were looting by stealing, and by the same token, they said that whites were surviving by stealing. Some things are kind of obvious.

What Kanye meant by shooting 'us' was because the orders were to shoot the ones where their stealing was classified as looting (which was the blacks) and it's popular to call your own race of people 'us'.

"If he really felt that way, he had a right to freedom of speech." - Honi

Sorry, Honi, but you are wrong here. First of all, how he felt has bearing on his right to free speech. One is certainly permitted to lie with that freedom. However, freedom of speech does not apply to a broadcast for which someone else is footing the bill, nor does it apply to the airwaves without restriction. The Federal Communications COmmission has rules governing what can and can't be said on the public airwaves. Further, in line with what I said about footing the bill, even someone footing the bill must stay within the network guidelines, and also within the individual station guidelines.

Okay Dorian, maybe I'm wrong but so much have been said over the airwaves that was wrong, since, and because of, hurricane Katrina, that West would have to stand in line.

In constrast to what West said, Master P said that we need Bush, and he bashed what West had said. Well, I think he was wrong to say that because I don't need Bush. He should have said that he needed Bush. He can't speak for me and he was supposedly speaking for Blacks as a whole. If West was wrong, so was Master P.

Bush aslo told the head of FEMA that he was doing a good job handling the disaster, and that was wrong to lie on national TV, when everyone knew it wasn't true.

Neither had a right to say those things, just with West.

Just proving a point, that's all.

quote:

I believe him though when he says George Bush doesn't care about black people.

I don't think its necessarily black people.

I think its poor people. And in this area, the poor tend to be black.

West had the right to say what he did, but maybe not where and when he said them.

But I don't think any worse of him for saying them. Its not anything better or worse than what the newsmedia is saying.

Honi, my comments were not a commentary on the accuracy or value of what he, or anyone else, said. I was merely addressing the issue of free speech. Like all of our freedoms, it has limitations. A civics teacher once told me that "Your right to swing your arms stops somewhere short of my nose."

I don't know who Kayne West is and I really don't care what he says... some people obviously do, but I bet he didn't do much with his comments to help the networks raise money for the cause.

I saw people carrying two televisions and radios in flood waters... that's looting no matter what the color of their skin was. In the Chicago Tribune I read an article about looting - getting food and water is not considered looting no matter what the color of someone's skin.

Shooting at National Guard trying to help maintain control of a situation is criminal no matter what the color of someone's skin is.

When I watched the TV coverage, which I can't do this weekend because my darn cable went out, I saw a lot of poor people asking for help... a lot of them happened to be black. I don't care for President Bush much but I don't think his response or his administrations lack of response had anything to do with the skin color of people needing the help. I think the response was all around show of total incompetence. The people involved no doubt wish it was a bunch of white people so that their lack of timely assistance wouldn't also be seen as a racial issue.

I really don't think it has anything to do with race or economic level... I think it has to do with complete lack of effective management of the situation and that it was a big hurricane.

Welcome to the Rap/hip-hop section, newcomers.

I have to agree with what Shel and Ami said. Seems like reasonable responses.

Just passing through, Justin, with no plans for staying.

this is the first legitimate debate in the Rap forum. This is great you guys!

DG, personally I don't care about FCC rules.
The constitution is the paper I believe in and it clearly states in the first amendment we have the right to freedom of speech. I don't recall it saying anything about the FCC or any other rules for that matter.
We have the right to say what we want to say when we want to say it no matter how stupid or ignorant it is.

First, let me correct what I said above. I left out a key word. I said:
"...how he felt has bearing on his right to free speech."
I meant to say that how he felt has no bearing on his right to free speech.

Ron, it doesn't matter if you care of don't care about the FCC. If you watch broadcast television, or listen to broadcast radio, the FCC, to an extent, controls what you see and hear over those venues, or, more accurately, what you can't see or hear. Like it or not, accept it or not, that is the truth. The airwaves through which those programs are broadcast are owned by the public, and the FCC the public's organization to oversee our property. You are, however, free to write them and tell them how you feel.

There is a further issue here. The network or local station usually owns the intellectual property of what they broadcast, and the equipment by which signals are sent. Like all owners, they have certain rules that apply to the use of their product, property, and/or services. The usual term for these rules is "Standards and Practices." Even most "Live" programs have a seven second delay before the signal is sent. This allows the Standards and Practices representative to edit anything he feels does not meet the network's "guidelines."

As far as the First Amendment issue, all I can say is that 200 years of precedent says you are wrong. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are not what you say they are, nor are they what I say they are.* They are what the Supreme Court of the US says they are.

*You are right when you say that the First AMendment doesn't say anything about the FCC. In fact, the entire Constitution doesn't say anything about the FCC. Nor does it say anything about the EPA, the FBI, the CIA, the DEA, the USAF, or any of the numerous governmental agencies. Yet they are here.

Washington Post article

More than anything I imagine Kayne West did not get paid for his appearance because I'm sure there were portions of his contract for the appearance that said that he would have to follow the policies of the network... which would have meant that he read the cue cards. This, in my opinion and contrary to the editorial linked to, makes Mike Myers the real smart one... he continued to read the cue cards and kept himself within his own contract regardless of what the guy next to him was spouting.

I do not see anywhere in the transcript of what West said where he violated FCC regulations. He didn't swear and he didn't use offensive language. I think the primary dispute is between NBC and West. Free speech isn't always free... they may even have penalties in their contracts for these kinds of things.

Quick note to Ami: it's 'Kanye,' not 'Kayne.'

They do seem to overpoke at Mike though, don't they? I didn't think he was looking like anything other than a guy staying calm.

And what's with the article's description of Kanye's clothes? Since when are designer rugby shirts any less arrogant than standard Polo shirts?