A teen will serve his country instead of serving time.

Alex Chase, 18, was charged with robbing a store clerk at knife point. The felony charge would have kept him from his dream of joining the Marines. But the Kane County State's Attorney and the victim agreed to reduce the charges so he can enlist.

He said he was given a second chance at life and that he screwed up real bad. Everyone does their little mess up here and there, but mine was horrible," said Chase. story

In all honesty, does it seems American just to give a felon a chance to fufil his dream, since he wasn't thinking of his dream when he was robbing the clerk. How should the clerk feel about this?
Should America just open the prisons and give all felons a chance to fulfil their dream?
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12-06-04, 01:30 AM
FredPuli
Why not? You need every man you can get.

Anyway, there's nothing new in the idea of letting soldiers go unpunished. Under our law, if a soldier before a court martial is convicted of any crime the conviction and sentence are subject to confirmation by a high- ranking commanding officer. That is so regardless of the guilt or the evidence proving it. The officer could refuse to confirm the finding of guilt even without reading the case.It's not because the man is not guilty or rape or murder or whatever it is. It's because there may be times in warfare when a particular soldier is more valuable in the field than he is in the jail and when even declaring him not convicted is the best answer.

Your people are just extending the principle a bit Big Grin
12-06-04, 06:17 AM
Fritzzs
Your people are just extending the principle a bit
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A bit ????
If the kid had stolen an apple, maybe joyed rode a car, I could see it, but the "poor wayward" kid commited a feloney and should have served time...
How could anyone trust someone who robs at knife point - might as well used a gun..
Our liberal courts have showned again how redicous they are...
The little punk should have jail time and not have the pleasure to fulfill his "dream"...

12-06-04, 10:08 AM
teeceeum
I have mentioned this is other posts. It used to be quite common for first-time convicted criminals to be given a choice between prison and military service. I thought that practice had ended though.

Personally, if the circumstances warrant it (and none of us not involved know one way or the other), I would rather have the kid in the service where he will learn discipline and other positive traits and skills, then go to prison where the only thing he'll learn is how not to get caught next time.

I wish Kwll would come back. I would really like to hear his opinion on this.

12-06-04, 12:29 PM
honilov
TC, I don't believe it's the practice to give all teenage felons that choice. It must be 'who you are or who you know', as with most anything. From my point of view, he would have been serving his country by not robbing his fellow-American. I just don't get it, but I don't get a lot of things, so maybe it's no biggie. It's hard to believe that a knife-wielding robber has a dream of being a Marine. This idea probably came to him after the fact, and he sweet-talked the States Attorney. Poor clerk is probably scarred mentally for life.

It was probably a States Attorney like the one that we just got rid of. Thank God the crook lost.

12-06-04, 04:23 PM
soaringhorse
This just shows how desperate they are for young men and women to join. The sad thing about it, it shows that he can get away with being a criminal, and yet still serve our country. What's this tell people who decide to rob a bank, it's okay, I'll just go and join the service if I get caught, DUH!!!??
He should have to serve time, just like the rest of us if we do a crime. Do a crime, serve the time! Not time in the service, that is. Mad
I thought the military had better standards to follow than that, or does that even matter anymore?

12-06-04, 04:59 PM
Koz
From the Chicago Tribune (Free fast & easy membership required)


“Kane County Assistant State's Atty. William Engerman said his office is happy with the agreement and that it represents the state's desire to treat each case individually. But he insisted Chase's impending enlistment is not a condition of the probation.

The state said it took into consideration the Burlington Central High School graduate's lack of criminal history, his adherence to his bond conditions while awaiting trial, and the victim's wish not to see the teen sent to prison.”

Maybe “at knife point” mentioned in the other article means he pulled out a pocket knife. It does not mean he held the clerk by the neck and threatened him. The clerk does not want him to go to jail, so I really don’t think the clerk was traumatized too much.

I have only known three Marines that were given a similar option. It was a while ago but those men ended up being good Marines and good people. William Engerman obviously has much more information than we all do, so he is better to decide than you or I.

The military does not “need anyone they can get” regardless to what some think.

12-06-04, 06:11 PM
Scotty
A lot of troubled teens have been given the opportunity to serve the country rather than go to jail in the past. Apparently the officials in this case know more about this person than you can get from the story.

I think that they should take each case on an individual basis,some are worth giving the chance too ,and some are not.

I have seen it work in many cases .

Special forces can use some good "knife" men. Big Grin

12-06-04, 08:03 PM
AMoore

quote:Originally posted by honilov:
A teen will serve his country instead of serving time.

- snip -



During the Napoleanic wars, the British had a hard time finding enough men for the Navy. It became routine for courts to offer convicts a choice between service in the Navy and imprisonment. Conditions of service in those days were such that the smart ones chose prison, and prison conditions in those days were not good.

Alan Moore

12-07-04, 06:21 PM
honilov
Thanks all. I guess there's two ways of looking at everything.
12-08-04, 11:56 PM
DvdGStwrt
I think everyone needs to take a couple of days out of their life and sit in the "bleachers" and watch the American Justice system really work. Try those criminal courts and watch case after case be plea bargained and watch and see just how many people end up serving a few years.

Pay particularly close attention to the first charges, then look them up see how many are real close to being the same charge but legally different enough to where a person committing one crime has "legally" committed a whole slew of felonies.

Once you sit in a court house for a few days observing you get a good sense that Justice is the last thing being served from the bench. It is a machine which delivers justice not based on crime but based on status and how much money you have and who you know. It is far from just.

It is quantity of convictions, not quality that is the Justice systems goal.

Then join up with an in prison missionary service or volunteer work which gets you inside to see the living conditions, to meet with these young men and listen to their stories. Or as an alternative try a halfway house and talk with fresh out of prison inmates who come out thinking that they have a chance to really make a difference in their life but meet up with the hard cold wall of reality that society, that we do not forgive and will continue to inflict punishment on them for the rest of their lives.

Had you done any of this you would find that the sensationalized media view of criminals does not stack up against the real life people who, having gone astray, are forever placed in debt to society.

Prison is just the start.

Many will return to crime after their first term. We may believe it is because they didn't learn their lesson, however talking with second, third term prisoners you find out that that first term stripped them of any chance of getting ahead in the world. once your convicted you are screwed for ever, and ever and ever.

When faced with the non-existent ex-felon programs that secure jobs for these troubled men and women, finding that no will hire them, they return to the only way that they know how to survive, and that is crime.

Unfortunately not many prisons and jails offer real life skills other than criminal teachers teaching crime. Some of the programs that are offered are laughable at best and have no real bearing in the real world, such as a program that teaches the convict how to go through a job interview, or how to make a resume - these do not answer the problem of potential employers who will not hire a man fresh out of prison.

When in Las Vegas I dealt with fresh out of prison inmates. They were kicked out of prison with $25.00 gate money and the prison clothes. Some states are more generous giving maybe $200.00 and a suit, most however, are not that kind. The inmate is then expected to make a life out of this bountiful gift, get a job, find a place to live, eat all at the great expectation that they will not return to a life of crime.

Just how many do you think survive that out of prison program? Las Vegas was worse since there was only one homeless shelter, and Nevada Welfare didn't cover males out of prison.

Once armed with all of that knowledge, then and only then can you see and understand the sense of letting this teenager have a real second chance of joining the military which will instill in him some life skills and a sense of honor and duty and responsibility and may also provide him with GI grants and loans and put something on his resume than 5-10 in prison.

And if you think that military is not a punishment, I remind you of Basic Training. Any military personnel here will tell you it is no picnic and is a form of punishment which is brutal to the extreme and is less than forgettable. And today the boy may end up dead in the sands of Iraq.

What more in the way of punishment would you like to give him?

David

12-10-04, 10:45 PM
cyberlaol
Well said David-I have often wondered why so many people wonder why someone becomes a repeat offender until I read up here how many times society imposes its own eternal sentence on someone trying to go straight after getting out of prison-only to feel totally frustrated with finding employment and other hazzles its no wonder why so many return to crime.

12-15-04, 03:36 AM
Thaddeus831
While this is a little late, I would like to say I agree with what David said and would like to share with you a related story.


During the late 1960s/early 1970s, at the height of the events that were unfolding in Vietnam, a young 19 year old foresty student from Southern Illinois University was attending a drinking party on campus. At this party an argument broke out between two men, this disagreement quickly escalated into a fight, which further rose to an all out brawl. Needless to say, the police were called and all the participants were placed in custody.

Having had to drop out of school, a choice he was given instead of being expelled this young man was faced with a life that was already difficult that was about to become worse depending on the outcome of his upcoming trial (he was being charged with; battery, underage drinking, drunken disorderly, and disorderly conduct). Standing in the judge's chambers with the State's Attorney he was given another choice that would alter his life indefinitely. Spend a lengthy stay at the cost of the state or enlist in the armed forces. This was a difficult choice, for this young man was surely not a fan of the military and did not want to face being deployed to Vietnam and risk his life for a war he did not believe in, but he also didn't want to have his life wasted by a prison term on his record. What did he choose?

In perspective, a prison term would, as David explained, have ruined any chance of him having a decent life - scraping to get by on jobs that paid little and no one else wanted. While service in the military would surely send him to a hostile land where countless reports of young american boys being killed were broadcast on the television nightly. What did he choose?

To make long story short, and to spare all of you my verbose rhetoric, this young man choose government service. He was sent to Vietnam and survied. As of present he is a highly decorated colonel in the United States Air Force, he is the holder of two masters degrees (one in human resources and one in international relations), he is husband to a wonderful woman he met while in uniform (as was she), and a father. He has done great things with his life and touched many with his endearing wisdom and sense of spirt...and all of it was made possible by one choice he was given. One choice that another young man was given. And, if you wonder how I know so much about this man and his life...if because he is my uncle and he has inspired me more than any other person.

So, I ask all of you, do not judge people quite so harshly and quickly. Perhaps you can see that giving someone a second chance is not something that should be disregared immediately and hope that in giving this one benevolent gesture will ultimately be good for as many people as it did for my uncle and everyone he has touched.

Thanks.

Thaddeus

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