In Mississippi a lot of the high schools are going to uniforms, year round school (9 weeks on 3 weeks off), and a block 4 program. 4 classes per semester 100 minutes each. I would like to get everyones views on this.
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10-20-03, 07:48 AM
Sherasi
I totally agree with it.

I have done some research on this, and, although there has been no documented proof about increased class-room grades with using uniforms, there is an appreciable drop in gang violence.

I also agree with limiting summer vacation to shorter time periods. The only reason it existed in the first place was related to farming... when the majority of the country's population made a living through farming and needed all hands (including kids) to get the work done. In today's increased automated society, farming, while still laborous, does not require so very much child involvement.

Our country is behind the times AND behind the educational levels of many countries. It is time to bring us into the 21st century and be competitive.

10-23-03, 11:17 AM
Kendor
"Yes" to uniforms, absolutely "NO" to year-round school. Kids need that summer break to learn things that can't possibly be taught in a school. And to constantly be taken in and out of 'school mode' would lend to a lack of motivation, both in and out of the classroom. Summer break also gives our children the freedom to grow, physically and mentally, in preparation for the next grade level.

No opinion on the block 4 program; never heard of it.

10-23-03, 12:26 PM
methos
I have a personal revulsion to uniforms (having had to wear them) but that's probably more or less a good idea. I don't like the year-round school idea.

The block 4 program is what I really have a problem with. After about 45 minutes of one subject, the amount of information and understanding taken in falls off drastically. Classes should definitely not be twice as long as that time period.

[This message was edited by methos5000 on 10-23-03 at 12:35 PM.]

10-23-03, 12:33 PM
gerry
I recently took a small survey of public school teens in this area which asked whether they were for or against wearing uniforms, and the overwhelming majority were dead set against it. However, I have found that those in the private schools who do wear uniforms tend to end up liking it, primarily because it identifies them as part of a school that they are proud of, making them like members of a school 'team'. (When I say uniform, I mean a certain color shirt or blouse with a different color pants or dress, not a one color bright flourescent uniform as such). So, I think uniforms would be cool. But forget the year round school, we were all kids once, and just as it was then, it is now, they all need 10 weeks off in the summer to relax and/or work if necessary. And as for the 100 minute periods, considering that the average attention span of a teen is about 30 seconds, this length of time is absolutely ridiculous, no learning at all could possibly take place after the first hour or so, evryone would be bored crazy and just watch the clock. On the other hand, a 40 minute period is too short to accomplish much, I'd opt for 60 minutes.

10-23-03, 01:52 PM
SeattleRon
No to uniforms. Yes to everything else.
School isn't the military. You can't express your indivuality while wearing uniforms.
IN your younger years expressing yourself is very important. I absolutely disagree with uniforms in schools.
I think it's just another way for them to make money. It lowers morale. It turns these students into boring people.
Uniforms are just another way for them to make school more dull than it already is.
Let them express their individuality by at least allowing the students the right to dress how they want.

10-23-03, 09:56 PM
honilov
No to uniforms, no to year round school, no to block 4. Most times when schools make sudden changes, it's not always because of the kids' concern, but it's usually what benefit the state. Frown

10-23-03, 10:51 PM
puppyblues
Yes to it all. Three weeks off?? Come on, that's enough of a break, and that happens every nine week period. I think it's great, although I agree with Methos about going so long for a class. Attention spans will drop like flies after an hour.

Uniforms=equality. No 'oh, FiFi doesn't have on the right jeans, she must be soooooooooooo poor' Roll Eyes YES TO UNIFORMS! Smile

10-23-03, 11:50 PM
jusork
I've known a few kids who did block 4(I think it might've been called something else though). I asked them about it and I was surprised to find they liked it(keep in mind it's not all lecture, they also had time for homework). They didn't say it was boring or anything.

And as to what Pup said, what kids think of what others wear doesn't really seem to be a problematic issue, especially enough to question a need for uniforms. Kids seemed to me to treat differences pretty equally, at least definetly at my school. I could see how it would be easier to controlling bad stuff though.

10-24-03, 01:44 AM
SeattleRon
it's not what you wear it's how you work with what you got.
If everyone is wearing the same exact thing without the chance to alter it. You can't have a chance.
You go to school to learn. Not to wear what they want you to wear. The whole uniform thing is really a stupid idea.
Sorry pup Wink

10-24-03, 08:28 AM
methos
I'm curious, what do people think of dress codes (both strict ones and fairly lax ones) as opposed to uniforms?

10-24-03, 01:54 PM
SeattleRon
dress codes should go out the window. If girls wanna wear short dresses let them. Bandanas or hats let them who cares.
I mean nobody seems to care about those goth teens that wear those dog collars and spike bracelets.
Freedom of expression and indivuality are very important in your teen years.
Dress codes should go away.

10-24-03, 05:05 PM
puppyblues
Ron, while I totally 100% agree with you that going to school is to learn and not about what you wear, unfortuately, this isn't the case. I've seen it time and time again, especially in smaller towns. Kids get picked on on a daily basis because they don't have the 'right' clothes. It's not right, but it happens. This affects a kids performance in school and ultimately in life as well. Things that happen to you in school can leave a life time of scars on someone. It shouldn't be that way and if everyone was forced to wear the same thing, that would be one less thing for someone to get picked on for.
These kids can't help it if they are poor. Why should they pay the ultimate price for it...their education??

10-24-03, 07:17 PM
Yelena
My school has block scheduling. Let me explain it. It rotates between odd and even days, with 3 90 minutes classes ever other day, with a regular 45 minute 7th period at the end of every day. And then theres a 0 minute "enrichment" period at the end of every day where you can work on your homework or go to whatever teacher you need and get help.

I don't know about 100 minutes, and I think 90 is a few too long, but when I compare the 90 minute classes to the 45 minute one, I think it is definetly alot better. We are actually able to GET STUFF DONE, and we're able to review anything clearly and have the teacher explain it well until everbody gets it, and even work on projects and get a considerable amount done in class. I couldn't imagine having every class be only 45 minutes, I dont see how you could get anything done. Yes, it get a little dull sometimes, but I think you guys underestimate us when you say our attention span is that short.

I think ours is a great system and it definetly works evry well, it would be great if all schools could work like that.

10-25-03, 02:32 AM
SeattleRon
while I understand where you're coming from pup. Nobody should be forced to do something they don't want to do.
If that stuff is allowed then we might as well live in Cuba and North Korea.
It is wrong to pick on somebody for not wearing the right clothes, but it does teach those kids and teens to stand up for themselves.
If anything it will teach them to defend themselves and make them a better person in the end.
Personally If i wasn't bullied in grade school. I don't think I would be where I am today. Everyone gets picked on.
Uniforms should be kept for work and the military. Not for students who are trying to learn.

10-25-03, 09:01 AM
LVLF
I like the dress code idea for selfish reasons...less for me to buy as far as school clothes go. Wink And my son wouldn't have to decide which pair of pants, or shirt to choose from the pile on his floor every morning! Big Grin
I know my kids get very bored by the end of the summer, I only have one in school now, but after about nine weeks in school he's ready for a break...I think he'd like that system.
Our school does have the block system, but their blocks are 90 minutes. The kids love it. One of my sons classes is in 2 parts. 45 minutes of class, then lunch, then back to finish the last 45 min. of class. That one is tough for him, but he adjusted.

10-25-03, 09:07 AM
LVLF

quote:
Personally If i wasn't bullied in grade school. I don't think I would be where I am today. Everyone gets picked on.
Uniforms should be kept for work and the military. Not for students who are trying to learn.



Ron, aren't you a self proclaimed alcoholic?
Our insecurities start at a very early and impressionable age, then manifest in harmful ways as we become adults. I'm not implying that the practice of wearing uniforms will save our children from becoming insecure adults, but with all the things our kids have to defend themselves from while going through our public school system, it would be nice if the burden of what they wear was removed for them.

10-25-03, 07:16 PM
jusork

quote:Originally posted by LVLF:
Our insecurities start at a very early and impressionable age, then manifest in harmful ways as we become adults. I'm not implying that the practice of wearing uniforms will save our children from becoming insecure adults, but with all the things our kids have to defend themselves from while going through our public school system, it would be nice if the burden of what they wear was removed for them.



Our insecurities can be overcome if you work at it hard enough and at least try to get a better outlook.

Kids lives aren't difficult in the least though. We get up, go to school, do work, come home, and maybe have a relationship somewhere in there. Adults have much tougher lives. I definetly never saw much difficulty being a kid. I don't see how our clothes put any burden on us. Sure some people like to be stylish but it's only a self-respect thing for them. For most people they're just the things that cover our body.

10-25-03, 08:30 PM
honilov
Jusork, it just depends on the school, I suppsoe. I don't approve of uniforms, but these kids here all want to wear big expensive name brand clothes. Most of the kids here are wearing Fubu, Tommy, SeanJean, SnoopDog, Echo, etc, and the urge for this, follow them all through school. It's really the parent's fault for starting this trend and making the child a spoiled-brat. If the parents teach them that certain clothes are only secondary to their education, then maybe they could overlook someone teasing them about their clothes. But, as it stands, clothes mean more than just things covering the body.

10-25-03, 09:33 PM
jusork
Well I don't think kids are spoiled brats or think their clothes are more important than their education just because they wear expensive clothes. I also don't think people wear expensive clothes because of teasing, they just want to look good or whatever. It's not that much of a difficultty to just wear clothes anyway, doesn't even take time out of education.

10-28-03, 11:04 AM
MommyTimesTwo
The School System
I agree with uniforms, agree with year round school, and agree with block 4.

Uniforms--I have seen first hand the damage that can be done to a child who is less fortunate than his or her classmates. The high school I went to--like so many high schools--had a VAST divergence between the most wealthy and the most poor. Like, mansions to doublewides. And those rich kids can be CRUEL. One poor girl in my class killed herself because of the taunting. So don't discount the effect picking can have on a child--you think "kids will be kids", they arne't being kids, they are being sick, sadistic monsters.

Year-round school--did you know that kids will tend to drop AT LEAST one reading level after summer break, even if given an enforced reading list? And the drop in math skills and other skills is even more dramatic. Summer vacation serves no purpose in modern society other than the slow down a child's progress. We are lagging FAR behind other countries in our education and its about darn time we did something to catch up!

Block 4--45 minutes isn't long enough to learn anything. By the tiem everyone settles down, attendance is taken, homework is handed in...about 20 minutes are wasted. What can you learn in 25 minutes? And there is no evidence that long classes are detrimental to learning. College classes are sometimes as long as 180 minutes--there is no difference in teh learning capacity of an 18 year old high school senior and an 18 year old college freshman, so I cannot support the idea that long classes are detrimental.

10-28-03, 11:55 AM
Sherasi
I know for a fact it is more expensive for parents to put children into street clothes (non-uniform) than designated school uniforms.

Clothing is a badge for many schools... specific shoes, specific jackets, etc.

I remember one situation where a kid had bugged and bugged his parents for months to get this specific jacket. Mom and dad finally got the $$ and bought it for his birthay. He was ecstatic. He wore it to school the next day. On the way to school he was held up by a fellow student for the jacket, he resisted and was killed. Later on, that same theif/murderer was also killed over this jacket.

In the end in one day, it caused 3 murders over ownership.... over a darn JACKET!!

Whoever was killed over a school uniform?

10-28-03, 12:30 PM
angela-cc
OMG that is terrible Eek

10-28-03, 05:41 PM
jusork
Clothes aren't any more of a problem in school then they are for adults in work. You can find a case of murdering a student and stealing his clothes just like you could find a co-worker murdering and stealing a fellow co-worker's clothes. Should we all wear uniforms so nobody will want to steal them? It would help decrease crime, yes. So why don't we do it? Well, how many murders have you had at work?

I also find it kind of exaggerated for a kid to be emotionally damaged just because of kids being harsh to them. If someone would kill themselves because kids find them laughable, then they have serious emotional problems. To actually think even a third of the 73.2 million kids attending schools each year in the U.S. actually want to bring pain onto their classmates seems over-exaggerated. I know the public schools I went to made it clear they were concerned about school safty. I also think the kids would have a hard time making it if so many of them were being hurt all the time. Anyway, if there were bullies at my school, I would've been one of the most easy targets. I know plenty of other kids who could've been easily pushed around but weren't, too. Kids wore all kinds of clothes and got nothing. I won't rule out that kids who bother other kids too harshly exist so there could be a bully or two in some of the schools across the country but I don't think there are MANY schools with a lot of bullies for there to be a need for a dress code.

By the way, my classes in high school were 55 minutes(I don't think schools have 45 minutes classes). It seemed to be enough to learn something.

10-28-03, 09:59 PM
honilov
Sherasi, that is really sad about the jacket, but does the school uniform consists of a jacket, too? If not, this still could happen even while wearing a uniform.

MTT, the rich kids that are cruel, will still be cruel in uniforms, because they are cruel at heart. Clothes are not the problems in our schools. Most rich kids dress like bums, by choice, and it's the poor kids that's trying to dress rich. Bottom line, uniforms are not gonna solve the problem because kids would find some other reason to be happy/unhappy. Clothes are just an excuse to whine.

10-29-03, 02:30 AM
samantha
I say having myself been to private schools that we had to have uniforms too...i hated it also. So no to uniforms and no to year around school also. I don't think the kids will be doing much studying in the summer anyway and its nice to have the time off to be able to go places and all. Also makes it seem nice after being off all summer to look forward to going back to school once more.

10-30-03, 10:30 PM
megan_09
I think that students should have to wear uniforms because the students that dont have money wont have to be picked on anymore and they can just go to school to learn.
As for year around school, I like the idea of 3 weeks off, and I am sure that you would finish sooner?? But I think that students would get sick of going to school all the time and I could almost bet that the drop out rate would increase because people are sick of it.
Smile

10-30-03, 11:01 PM
methos
Seems to be a little confusion. I never said anything about children/teenagers having short attention spans. This doesn't just apply to children, it applies to anyone. After much longer than 45 minutes of learning, the amount of information you retain starts dropping pretty rapidly (please note that I am not saying you learn nothing in longer classes, just that it is not the most effective way to learn, and that that is the actual learning time, not just class time). As far as taking 25 minutes for the class to settle down, that's a problem that should be dealt with, not just avoided by making the classes longer. Saying that colleges have 2 hour classes doesn't prove that that is the most effective way to learn. However, as my undergraduate professors knew, the students learned better if our 1 hour and 50 minute classes were broken up by a 10 minute break (during which the students left the room and often grabbed a snack) in the middle.... which effectively gives you 50 minute classes.

10-31-03, 01:49 AM
SeattleRon
when i was in high school and junior high my family was poor, but I was still very popular. Instead of being fake and trying to claim my status with nice clothes and money. I used my wit, sense of humor and likeableness (if thats even a word)
My parents was buying me K-Mart clothes or cheap clothese from Wal-Mart and Target.

I agree about how money = status in school, but there are a lot of silver spoon kids that are still nerds and geeks. If you try hard enough clothes or looks won't matter.
It only matters if you let it matter.

10-31-03, 02:10 AM
samantha
Ron I agree with you 100percent on this here. My family had plenty of money and all but I was still not really popular ..I was liked but not popular but alot of that was because my parents never let me do anything with other kids or go to alot of the school activities.

10-31-03, 12:57 PM
Jelp01
I went to a very small high school in a very small town, where everyone knew everyone else, whether they liked them or not.

Clothes wouldn't have meant a hill of beans' worth of difference. Popularity was based on who your parents were, basically. And on your athletic ability and your partying. I was neither athletic or a partygoer, so even if my parents had plenty of money for the best clothes, I still would have been considered a loser. (I wasn't one, by the way......just a few pinheads in school thought I was.)

In a bigger school, though, it might make a difference as far as uniforms go. I'm enough of an individualist that I wouldn't personally have liked them.

10-31-03, 04:42 PM
MommyTimesTwo
I still think uniforms make a big difference. I only graduated High School 7 years ago, and I have sister in High SChool right now. The pressure to conform--dress "cool" like everyone else--is STRONG and definately distracts from studies. And those who do not dress "cool" are picked on.

Its easy as an adult to say that picking in school isn't that bad and that there must be other problems, but we're not talking about adults, we're talking about the-whole-world-revolves-around-me-if-Johnny-doesn't-ask-me-out-I'll-die teenagers. The vast majority of teens do not have the perspective to say "its only a couple kids picking on me". Its more like, "No one likes me I'll never be anything why don't I go die."

If this isn't true, then why are suicide rates for teens only even closely met by suicide rates for the very elderly? Not every teen has "serious problems"--a kid was in teh paper the other day for committing suicide, because his girlfriend of six weeks dumped him. He was an athlete and good student. But he was also a teenager.

10-31-03, 08:09 PM
honilov
I think more rich kids are commiting suicide than poor kids. Kids that are killing themselves are doing so because they are weak and not because their clothes came from rummage sales. A lot of the poor kids are the ones picking on the rich because they are jealous. Truthfully, this could be a 50/50 deal, because each side picks on the other. I was picked on because we weren't poor, and history repeated itself with my kids. They were picked on because they weren't poor. So we can't say that the rich kids are the ones picking on the poorer ones because it's just not true.

11-01-03, 11:23 AM
MommyTimesTwo
Well, I found this , which has a breakdown of statistics on teen suicide, but it doesn't have by family income.

I find it hard to beleive that kids who have money kill themselves more often. I mean, when we were growing up, we were considered rich in our school because our parents had a car and we had dinner every night. It sure wasn't the kids like us that got picked on, it was the kids with mayonaise sandwhiches for lunch and ripped, dirty pants that did. I just can't see it working teh way you describe, Honi.

11-03-03, 11:58 AM
mystery250
Well, there should be a DRESS CODE. But I don't think uniforms for school are really nessassary. And also, I also agree with the previous statement, that there shouldent be Year Round schools, because teenagers, and everyone for that matter, needs some time off.

11-07-03, 11:21 AM
Elexina
I believe that a dress code is appropriate. Sometimes parents don't care what their kids wear and it is up to the schools to enforce a level of modesty. If it weren't for dress codes, I can only imagine what the kids at my school would be wearing!
But I also feel that kids need to have some level of individuality apparent, even at school. I don't like the thought of uniforms -especially since half the fantasies in this world revolve around plaid skirts and knee-high socks!

As for block scheduling, I don't think that's a bad thing. We had block scheduling in high school and I thought it was good. At first, they tried to teach us some subjects the first half of the year and the others the second half, and that failed miserably because no one could remember the stuff from the first half of the year by the time the next year came around.
If I remember correctly, we ended up having classes every other day. That worked well. I never felt like I could learn anything in the short class periods we had and having longer classes enabled us to understand and process more information, talk to the teacher more, and so on. It wasn't so rushrushrush.

As for year-round school, I don't know... I think kids do need a break once in a while -even if they won't be getting them in Real Life. But nine weeks on, three weeks off seems pretty fair. When we were in France I had six weeks on and two weeks off or something like that, and it was really nice to know the breaks were coming. ...Of course, I still had summer vacation, but the school year went longer.
I think year-round school might be appropriate for some ages and not for others, though.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

02-14-04, 12:04 AM
Viljar
Wearing a uniform everyday I must say that I completely agree with wearing a uniform. Brief description: the uniform consists of a polo t-shirt (t-shirt with collar), either blue or white (white only for seniors, blue only for juniors and seniors) with the school logo on the left side. All others wear either white, light blue or blue/white striped (each stripe ~3 mm wide) blouses/shirts. Choices for legs are: crested trousers/shorts or different models of skirts, mostly navy blue, and one which is sort of Scottish squared in navy-blue, white and some red. (Elementary girls can also wear a really ugly school-dress.) As we see, choices are immense! (btw. these are the uniforms for an international school in Thailand, we are all "spoiled brats" having maids to crest our trousers daily, and no need to wear jumpers/jackets as the sun is pleasantly hot every day.) However, the class differences here are also large, from the middle-class European American ex-pats to the insanely rich Chinese and Indian families. Uniforms make everybody meet at common ground, and it makes the INSIDE of a person more important than the outside. "Nobody cares about the goth girls with spiky dog collars", sure, we let them wear it, but we don't voluntarily talk to them. When everyone wears uniforms, we feel liberated to approach anyone because we then don't focus the exterior differences, and those whom we choose not to have as friends are those who turn out to be cruel, evil, ignorant people with bad personalities. This is the point and goal of a uniform. Of course, it also reduces teasing due to clothing. We all know and recognise the stereotype: "How can the teacher expect me to remember that the Second World War ended in 1947 [it actually ended 1945]? And how can Suzy [no offense to anyone named Suzy] wear that exact same outfit she wore last Monday?" I wear the same outfit everyday, and nobody thinks I am lame because of that; they think I'm lame because I never watch my mouth. Wink Once more, even though Suzy isn't teased directly because of her clothes, her clothes can potentially make other people "avoid" contacting her.

In Norway (my homecountry) I know that the government is trying out uniforms in some lower secondary schools (jr. high) to see what effect it has. I have also heard of a shool introducing a yellow t-shirt, which is enforced upon the students (primarily girls) whom the teachers think dress indecently. Personally, I think forcing everybody to wear a uniform (with some choices and variations as outlined above) is better than only forcing some to wear a horrible outfit.

Further: Who hasn't heard the expression "kids can be so cruel"? Children don't stand up for themselves, either they're with the gang, or their against it. (Ever heard a saying similar to this before?) And "the gang" is a strong entity, they decide who's cool, and who ought to simply stay at home and remain a virgin till 55. For kids, an important part of life is to feel a sense of belonging, and what better way is there to do this, then by making everyone feel that they belong to the same clique wearing the same clothes? Even if these clothes are horrible, all the kids will belong to the same group going against the teachers and the fashin dictatorship enforced upon them.

As for holidays, I think one long holiday is better than many semi-long ones, although its length might have to be considered. If it turns out 10 weeks is so long students forget what they have learned, why not reduce it to 7 weeks? I think 3 weeks is a bit too long as well, as although it doesn't reduce your intelligence that much, it still will make you forget the important details (e.g. the meaning of the word "nascent") that you would've remembered over a week's holiday. Thus the point is: one long holiday, and then many short ones during the year; even a long-weekend will relax most students enough to come back to school re-energised.

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