The argument from Rene is a bit hard to crack through, subconsciously I know there is a weak point somewhere but it is hard to put my finger on it.
One problem is I personally respect Ogham Razor a lot, I did not consider it before the debate. I can argue that atheist also believes in the possibility that god exist, the difference is that they choose to ignore that “possibility” and hence they do not respect reality, but Rene has a “infinitely small possibility” defense, and he link his argument with pink elephants. I also need to find a good example other than UFOs to prove my point, lame. I am going against the discipline of science.
I can push for “no prove for no god” argument but I am looking for a total knockout blow.
I can argue that god is more substantial than Santa Claus, but quantitatively/philosophically proving this, is extremely difficult.
Or…..hmmmmm…..maybe I should not try to knock out atheism. I should just focus on proving the superstition part. The dictionary definition is a problem but not a big one.
What do you guys think? Any ideas?
Should I just throw in the tower or is there something else I can work on? ******************************************************** 03-08-06, 12:56 AM newnickname It is impossible to prove a negative. Atheists can, I guess, behave as if there were no god(s), but can't, in fact, prove it. The possibility that there could be a god (or pink elephants that disappear when you look for them, or whatever) needn't actually interfere with one's life (and certainly doesn't imply that any one religion has correctly identified the nature of 'God', or ever could do so). As seems to have been pointed out, getting your life together without faith in God hardly qualifies as 'superstitious'.
By the way, it's Occam's Razor , or Ockham's Razor . Occam was neither athiest nor agnostic. 'Ockham won fame as a rigorous logician who used logic to show that many beliefs of Christian philosophers (for example, that God is one, omnipotent, creator of all things; and that the human soul is immortal) could not be proved by philosophical or natural reason but only by divine revelation.'
What is the point you're trying to make on that other thread?
That atheists are superstitious? It might have been better to suggest that atheists who say for sure that there is no god because they don't accept things on faith are not intellectually rigorous enough - because they are making a statement of faith. But then, I guess, you'd have to find an atheist who'd actually said all that. Smile
Or that agnostics are 'better'? How do you mean 'better'? Nicer? Smarter?
I think your problems, not only from the point of view of the strength of your rhetorical position, lie in how you kicked off the thread - "Atheists are superstitious. Agnostics are better".
03-08-06, 04:15 AM Bo Thanks for the pointers and yeah, you’re right.
I have no sorrows with atheism but this bunch of atheists I dislike.
I didn’t survey enemy carefully, I had a sloppy look at one or two flame threads, estimated the atheists there cannot argue reasonably, hoping for a good and relaxing session teasing the atheist, I entered battle in my underwear, holding a frying pan. Smile
When I was happily provoking them with my underwear down showing them my rear, an angry one I never seen before appeared with a rifle. Now there are a couple of holes in my butt.
I have two options:
1. Fight the battle. Show black is actually white with all the rhetoric I can muster, hey, logic, use it in a skillful way, can do anything.
2. Or, just raise a little white flag; give up the little honor I have left. But, even though I am not much of a representative for agnosticism, its name might still be harmed if I surrender.
Or maybe….. some of you agnostic brothers over here can lend a hand to a fellow member fighting among a laughing psychotic horde of stone throwing atheists; by joining in the debate.
Please bail my ass! Big Grin
03-08-06, 06:29 AM tsaeb Just state that now that they are on your back, they will get a look see from your perspective. Watch them disappear. 03-08-06, 08:06 AM Bo
quote: that now that they are on your back, they will get a look see from your perspective
Ok, I am trying this.
03-08-06, 09:35 AM newnickname
quote: ...its name might still be harmed if I surrender...
Really? I doubt it. It's only politicians and religious fanatics who aren't allowed to say, "Sorry, I got that wrong".
When did all this become a competition anyway? The tribal instinct in people is amazing. Call one set 'blues' and another 'reds', and within weeks they're at each other's throats.
I'd suggest posting your "entered battle in my underwear, holding a frying pan" line, and explaining things as you just did here. It's funny, true and might start some discussion, rather than point-scoring.
03-08-06, 09:44 AM juanruiz
quote: a laughing psychotic horde of stone throwing atheists
That seems like a particularly confrontational discussion board. I don't believe any atheist here has ever adopted such a strident tone. I prefer the calmer waters of this pool.
03-08-06, 11:49 AM frankvan I can't see why anyone would want to "debate for agnosticism in an atheist thread", or vice-versa for that matter? I'm not sure whether or not I'm an atheist, because I have no belief in a god of any sort imaginable, or an agnostic , because I seriously doubt that any imaginable god exists. I call myself an atheist, if anyone inquires, but I see nothing wrong or contradictory in claiming to be agnostic, or secular humanist, or free thinker. Who cares? What do labels matter anyway ? I'm not bragging or apologizing, and I'm not terribly impressed by what I've seen on that other forum. Razz
03-08-06, 06:47 PM frankvan Throw in the tower??
03-08-06, 07:42 PM newnickname I guess that would be a mixture of 'throw in the towel' and 'thrown in the Tower [of London]'.
03-08-06, 09:59 PM Insaf
quote: Originally posted by frankvan: I seriously doubt that any imaginable god exists.
As many thesits also say that God is beyond human comprehension/imagination, they too do not believe in an imaginable God.
03-09-06, 12:55 AM Bo Towel, tower...Ok guys, I think I am more suited for Hare Krishna.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
