A few nights ago, I noticed a spider web on the landing (outside) my door. In the middle of the web, I saw what looked like a very tiny little spider. It was so cute that I killed a little aunt and put it in the web. The next day the aunt was gone, and I began to realize that what I saw in the web wasn't a tiny spider, but the remains of some insect. So that night I went outside and turned a flash light on the web. There I saw a creepy, large, ugly, disgusting looking spider. So I decided to kill it, smashing it to peaces. But I asked myself, why is it OK to kill an ugly creature, and not a cute one. So I have decided to leave it up to the members of AP if the spider dies or not. DOES IT DIE, OR NOT? ************************************************** 08-27-05, 08:27 PM Professor "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." -- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
That's one extremist view. Perhaps it follows that "An ant is an aunt." Big Grin If you truly felt a moral imperative to not harm any living creatures, then forget about killing bacteria by washing your hands, or killing the weeds in your garden! (Remember the Round-Up tv commercials, in which an animated anthropomorphic weed howls in panic to his buddy: "Hank, I can't feel my roots!")
The other extreme is the primitive and nihilistic "nature red in tooth and claw" -- anything goes: kill the spider, kill your neighbor's dog, nuke the whales, kill your parents...
I think a reasonable moral middle-ground is to avoid inflicting pain or suffering on animals capable of experiencing it. The nervous system of invertebrates, such as your problematic spider, probably renders them incapable of experiencing pain as we know it. (They certainly behave nonchalantly about the loss of limbs.) But then even single-celled animals have mechanisms for avoidance of noxious stimuli, so there's a slippery slope.
Setting a dog on fire (as was in the news recently) is the commission of a crime because dogs obviously suffer much as humans do, while throwing a live lobster (an arthropod cousin of a spider) into the stew pot is socially acceptable.
This leaves a vast middle ground of moral ambiguity. Is it OK to kill a mouse, which is a mammal with a central nervous system not unlike your own? Does it matter whether it's your child's pet or if it's just vermin in the pantry? A standard mousetrap will end its life quickly without apparent pain or suffering, while squeezing its tail with a clamp or putting its paws on a hotplate causes it to react in obvious pain. Both of these latter practices are used in mainstream medical research on anesthetic agents for the benefit of mankind, published in scientific journals using matter-of-fact descriptions of technique. Do the means justify the ends?
Is capital punishment OK? Is lethal injection OK while electrocution is "cruel and unusual punishment?"
It's easy to ask these questions, hard to answer them. And I am hoping not to start an epidemic of off-topic rants here!!
Personally, I'd whack the spider and think nothing of it.
08-27-05, 10:25 PM Tree Nope! I have to say that I can forgive a cute spider, but an ugly hairy one??? No way!!! I don't care for spiders NOR snakes. I KNOW they have a duty in our world, but I'm afraid of them.
My guy normally removes all spiders, snakes, etc from our property --- cuz he sees the advantage of these creatures AND for the fact that they ARE creatures of the earth, without voting pivileges or welfare rights.
I just DON'T know what I'd do if one of my cats brought home a snake in his absence!! Eek
08-28-05, 02:01 AM FredPuli Be practical. Killing the spider brought no benefit. It could never have hurt you. Leaving it, or having someone move it, could have done; some pretty bird could have eaten it. (What do you think pretty birds live on? A lot live on spiders and insects and some of that food is ugly ! )
08-28-05, 02:31 PM clarebear I don't see any benefits from killing the spider. Spiders are natural insect control. Think of all the mosquitoes you will have around your house if you start killing off the spiders. If you see a clown walking around the neighborhood- KILL IT! If you see a little spider minding its own business- leave it alone.
Spiders are our friends. Smile
08-28-05, 06:03 PM Sherasi Clare,
were you thinking about "IT"!!?? Wink
I hate spiders, but I don't kill them. I DO kill bees cause I am terrified of them. Eek
08-28-05, 10:05 PM Tree You see? Here we go... people kill things that they are terrified of.
I have to disagree Fred. The act of killing that spider did in fact bring a benefit, and that benefit was that I was no longer afraid. Spiders bite. I've been bitten! Some spiders leave nasty venum that lasts for some time, leaving the area sore and black & blue.
I don't wander around looking for spiders to kill. I leave them alone outside, but in the home, if I'm confronted - they go.
08-29-05, 06:46 PM jusork
quote: Originally posted by Sherasi: Clare,
were you thinking about "IT"!!?? Wink
I hate spiders, but I don't kill them. I DO kill bees cause I am terrified of them. Eek
If you're scared of bees, it's probably safer if you try to get away from them instead of bothering them more by trying to kill them. No?
08-29-05, 08:15 PM Sherasi You are right in principle, I suppose... but when I have just stepped on it because it was crawling around on the floor in my bedroom and I got stung (in the middle of the night on a potty run) I am a-gonna kill the bugger!
08-29-05, 08:48 PM Professor Just to set the record straight, I am generally in agreement with the "spiders are our friends" point of view. I never disturb the webs near my outside doors, as they provide a great service in keeping other creepy-crawlies out.
Only the brown recluse (whose bite can cause an ulcerating wound requiring skin grafts) and the female black widow (whose bite can kill a child) are confirmed menaces. Both are indigenous where I live, but the brown recluse is, well, reclusive. And so is the black widow. They were both a much bigger nuisance in the days of outhouses. Campers beware!
It's obvious, from my earlier discourse on the moral dilemma, that I took the question way too seriously. Wink Most critters with 6, 8, or more legs don't bother me, even if they pack stingers. I'm much more wary of the 4-legged variety, while the most fearsome of all are the 2-legged ones who live just down the street. Smile
08-30-05, 11:40 AM edgeview The consensus is to let it live. But I might harass it from time to time. He is UGLY!
Edgeview
08-31-05, 10:57 PM Kelleygirl Viva La Spider!!!!!! If you want to feel better about him/her listen to a copy of The Who's "Boris the Spider." It's kinda cool and might endear you to your little new neighbor.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Update on my UGLY spider. I had a fly harassing me in my living room tonight. I wounded it and took it to the spiders web. I drooped it off and came back 15 minutes later. The spider had moved it to a hiding place where I could still see (her). I have decided that she is a she. I don't think that anyone will be upset that I sacrificed the fly, since it was inside of my house. By the way, how many legs does a spider and a fly have?
