I have been pretty aggressive toward three dogs that come on my property because I have 2 cats and 2 pullets. The dogs, a Rottweiler, a pitbull and another mixed breed of middle size, do come on my property at night. There are game trails through the forest around my property where my fence does not extend. That's how they enter, I've seen them after dusk sometimes, though they don't do it while I'm around. They have killed one neighbor's cat already. (The victim's property is unfenced.)
I was walking down my road to visit a neighbor. I was carrying my cat PassePartout in a sturdy plastic carrier because they love him and his visits, and he likes to visit them and play with their cats.
Ahead I heard an absolute uproar of dogs barking. I continued. When I turned the corner I saw that the dogs of another neighbor, which are kept on her large fully-fenced property, were barking ferociously. Then I saw that the three dogs were on the road between myself and my destination, barking savagely at the fenced dogs, and very angry, and running back and forth in frustration because they couldn't get at the fenced dogs. I continued walking toward them.
Then they began barking at me. At this point PassePartout let out a terrible wail, and I saw that he was terrified and trying to get out of the cage (to climb a tree, I guess.)
But when the cat-killers heard that, they started toward me. I didn't dare turn away, in case that triggered their pursuit-instinct. It was then I realized that I was dealing with not three dogs, but a pack. They had become so aroused by the other dogs that they had become very aggressive.
I was afraid. So I started backing away, not looking directly at them. They began to run towards me.
What happened then was pure luck. The fenced dogs went absolutely nuts. They were rushing the fence and trying to get at the pack. This distracted the pack, and I turned and hurried (not running) and once I rounded the corner they didn't pursue me.
I took poor PassePartout home and put him in the house. Later when the barking noise died down I visited the neighbor, without PassePartout, in my truck.
I have a shotgun but the only shot I had was bird shot that I use for target practice and that would not stop a pit bull. I have since got buckshot, #1 had sold out so I had to take 2 sizes bigger, #00, unnecessarily large.
It's legal to shoot stray dogs in the regional district where I live. This is because they form packs and go after livestock and run the deer.
I hesitate to talk to the owners because they are already well aware that their dogs are a nuisance, but like most idiots they insist their dogs are not dangerous. Also they are it seems involved in illegal activities. Living alone as I do, I'm vulnerable to retaliation.
If I talk to the R.C.M.P. I'm running a risk too. A friend told me he suspects they have a tie-in with some dealers. He gave me semi-convincing evidence.
Here's my question. Is that pack behavior dangerous to a human?
Posts: 6961 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
Yes, it is. Pack behavior is instinctual, and much older than the dog-human relationship, much more hard-wired into their system. If you don't want to carry a shotgun around with you, get some bear spray or pepper spray. A can of spray deodorant also works, but not as well. (If you carry a lighter, the deodorant can also be used as a blowtorch; I've never tried using Mace, pepper spray, or bear spray in this manner, but assume that they'd work just as well.)
If you are concerned that the local police are dirty, try an anonymous letter to the local paper about the dogs.
Pack behaviour is a strong instinct.Even my little ones here act as a pack.They caught a deer this week, which I had to rescue.What was striking, and predictable, was that as soon as one had bitten the deer and drawn blood there was an absolute frenzy of an attack, all of them piling in, a 'blood frenzy'.
I had to rescue it because none of them could kill it; all they could do was inflict numerous injuries; had the wolfhound caught it, it would have been dead in seconds.As it was, it ran off once it was free.
That's the ultimate danger with a group of any dogs: if one triggers the instinct,by drawing blood, they smell it and attack in a mindless frenzy.One bite and they can all be on the attack.
Experienced humans are not in much danger.That's because we know how to avoid trouble and how to act if it starts.Toddlers are likely to be innocent victims, mainly because they unwittingly 'eyeball' a large dog, staring at it.The dog treats that as a threat and attacks, and any others join in.Other dogs can be in danger too.
Thank you, this justifies my instinctive fear response. I spoke to the neighbor who has the big fenced property and whose dogs distracted the three, to compliment her on her responsible attitude. She says the three run along the nearby beach, also, where she takes her leashed dogs for a run. The uncontrolled dogs are annoying and upsetting the beachfront residents, who are mostly retired people with less aggressive dogs.
Looks like it's our duty to have a meeting and make a plan. Because otherwise someone will be hurt, another beloved pet will be killed, or the three dogs will be shot. Which would be a shame, they are beautiful dogs, and if properly handled would not be a threat, I'm sure.
Mind you, I'm no expert. My only experience was with two border collies, Laddie and Bruce, when I was a farm girl, and they were lovely. Especially Laddie.
Posts: 6961 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
I don't understand why it's even legal to own a pitbull, and some other types of dogs. Look at it this way, there are different breeds of cats, just as there are other breeds of dogs. But I can't own Lions and Tigers if I wanted to without special licenses and provisions.
Originally posted by Kendor: I don't understand why it's even legal to own a pitbull, and some other types of dogs. Look at it this way, there are different breeds of cats, just as there are other breeds of dogs. But I can't own Lions and Tigers if I wanted to without special licenses and provisions.
Domesticated cat and ligers, tigers, lions are not as closely related as domesticated dog and pit bull -even though pit bull is a domesticated dog.
They (pit bulls and other breeds) are designed for defense, designed for their ability to be pitted against other bulls in an arena sort of like a cock-fight. They are tailored animals, many generations of careful breeding for their temperament, size, muscle mass.
No breed of domesticated cat has been purposefully bred for defense and/or spectator fighting (sport some say).
It is legal to own pit bulls, mastiffs, doberman, etcetera because while these breeds have a bad name they are not bad dogs. It is the owners, the PEOPLE part of the equation that purposefully trains or through abuse and neglect creates monsters.
Wild dogs (feral packs) are abandoned dogs, usually reverting to instinctual behaviors and those qualities bred into them (aggression as example) will be exploited by the dog to its fullest advantage.
Even beagles and other small, cozy breeds can become vicious killers, mighty hunters and even dominate a pack of larger dogs given the right circumstances.
Do not be fooled by rover laying in the corner, while thousands of years of breeding may make him look pretty, or make him seem lovable and harmless, inside beats the heart of the wolf, the heart of coyote. Take man out of the equation and rover becomes a vicious killing machine.
Posts: 4146 | Location: Neither here nor there | Registered: 06-03-02
It is legal to own pit bulls, mastiffs, doberman, etcetera because while these breeds have a bad name they are not bad dogs. It is the owners, the PEOPLE part of the equation that purposefully trains or through abuse and neglect creates monsters
The pitbull was bred as an attack dog, a look at the characteristics of it's ancestors supports this. The aggressive qualities are already inherent in the breed long before they are purchased or adopted. Unfortunately they are often adopted by the wrong people, which exacerbates the problem. Training and/or neglect makes an aggressive breed even more of a danger. There is a ban on new ownership of this breed in Ontario, and as a result the number of serious dog attacks has fallen.
The law requires pit bull owners to have their dogs sterilized, muzzled and on a leash in public, and owners are forbidden from breeding or importing more pit bulls into the province. Violators face a maximum penalty of $10,000 and six months in jail.Ontario appeals court upholds ban on pit bulls
That's the way it should be. There is no reason for anyone to own this breed of dog.
inside beats the heart of the wolf, the heart of coyote.
I had said:
quote:
My only experience was with two border collies, Laddie and Bruce, when I was a farm girl, and they were lovely.
But Dvd's post reminds me of what had happened in our farm community.
All farmers had a collie dog to help them manage their dairy herds. The collies are a very pleasant, sweet-tempered, gentle breed when dealing with "their" animals. Even a stubborn cow, who resisted going through a gate, for example, the dog would never nip or bite her. The herding was accomplished, it seemed to me, by the cow's instinctive fear of the dog, and her attempts to prevent the dog from coming close to her hind legs.
But the farmers also had sheep. A few sheep were found slaughtered in the field, sometimes one, sometimes more. The farmers decided it was dogs, because they saw tracks of more than one dog.
Every farmer insisted it couldn't be his dog.
Then one night my uncle lost thirty sheep. Few of the sheep showed any sign of having been eaten. But they all had had their throats torn out.
So each farmer set up a watch, working in shifts with other family members, and armed with a shotgun or a 30-30 or an old Ross .303 from the days of the Boer War! or even a .22.
Shooting was heard from one farm so all the neighbors rushed over. Some dogs were shot and finished off. Most managed to escape but were recognized. Every last one was some local farmer's cattle dog.
It was believed that once a collie tasted fresh blood, he would never again be safe around animals. So the escaped dogs were put down, also.
The farmers pieced the story together. At first it was only one or two dogs, and they probably didn't kill their own animals, but a neighbor's instead.
But the dogs would howl at night, and I guess this drew other dogs until the pack included about ten dogs. Then the taboo against killing one's own animals was dropped.
When the dogs were replaced, the farmers were careful to keep them tied at night.
Posts: 6961 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
... designed for their ability to be pitted against other bulls in an arena sort of like a cock-fight. They are tailored animals, many generations of careful breeding for their temperament, size, muscle mass. ++++ It is legal to own pit bulls, mastiffs, doberman, etcetera because while these breeds have a bad name they are not bad dogs. It is the owners, the PEOPLE part of the equation that purposefully trains or through abuse and neglect creates monsters.
In Britain, it is illegal to keep, own,exchange, abandon, advertise, sell, offer for sale etc ,dogs of the type: pit bull terrier, Dogo Argentino, Fila Braziliero, Japanese Tosa. The section is headed "Dogs bred for fighting" but defines that with reference to the original purpose of the type, not whether any individual dog(s) had been bred for that purpose
Owners of such dogs at the time of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 had to have them neutered, always on a muzzle in public, and listed on an official register OR destroyed in exchange for modest compensation.They were forbidden to exchange, abandon, sell etc (as above).
It is possible to keep such dogs without them attacking anyone. We found it simpler to outlaw them.
Note that there are plenty of tough guard dog breeds which are not there.They are of a 'type' bred as guards, not fighters. You can keep and breed as many e.g. Neapolitan Mastiffs or Hungarian Komondors as you like (subject to licensing of dog- breeding establishments)
