Someone very close to me is using herion. He came to me and wants help. He doesn't want the rest of my family to know so he is asking me how can he get off of this now and not have all of the physical withdraws. He can't go into a clinic right now for good reasons and he told me that if you go cold turkey off of this you get deathly sick and may be fatel..So any advice would be great but, I already know he should go into a clinc but hes NOT able right now trust me so please don't say that tell me what to do if you know to help him here then when he gets off he will go to meetings for drug abusers...thanks ***************************************************************** 06-16-04, 02:32 PM MommyTimesTwo I don't know if that is possible. Real physical addiction to heroin is something that has to be treated in a hospital, because the withdrawl is HORRIBLE. I have watched people ON THE MEDICATION withdraw from heroin addiction and that was really bad--I can't even imagine what it would be like to do without medical help. Here is some info on heroin itself.
quote:Withdrawal symptoms from heroin include a craving for the drug, restlessness, yawning, tears, diarrhoea, low blood pressure, stomach and leg cramps, vomiting, goose bumps, and a runny nose.
These withdrawal symptoms get stronger and usually peak around 2 to 4 days after last use. They also include increased irritability, insomnia, loss of appetite, vomiting, elevated heart rate, muscle spasms and emotional depression. Then they begin to get weaker. They usually subside after 6 to 7 days.
But some symptoms such as chronic depression, anxiety, insomnia, loss of appetite, periods of agitation and a continued craving for the drug may last for periods of months and even years. Sudden withdrawal from heroin never causes direct death, unless the user is also using other drugs and is in poor health.
The thing is, this person doesn't just need to detox, they need to stop using altogether, and the chances of successfully doing that by himself are pretty slim. The mental addiction in addition to these withdrawl symptoms--which WILL occur without medical help--are more than likely going to push him right back to using.
There is no way, other than taking other street drugs, to avoid heroin withdrawal without medical help.
06-16-04, 02:33 PM clarebear I think he should start by calling Narcotics Anonymous. They are professionals and will be able to get him the help he needs. There are ways for him to anonymously get the help he needs without checking into a clinic. They will be able to get help him find a free place he can go and get medicine to help with the withdraws symptoms. (They also have a list of referrals) The addiction and withdraw symptoms won't just go away on their own. You are a great friend Sammy. Good Luck to you both. It is a long road ahead.
NA
Meetings
additional info... READ THIS
Regional Help Line 800-587-4232 Telephone 614-252-1700
06-16-04, 02:59 PM samantha Thank you guys so very much..there is a TON of information on here for us..by the way this is my brother that is on this...i found the needles in his room and he started talking to me.
06-16-04, 03:08 PM MommyTimesTwo Wow I'm glad to hear there is a way to do it anonymously! I was really worried he'd have to do it on his own and that would be awful. Thank goodness for that! And good luck to him AND you Sammy @->-
06-16-04, 07:00 PM samantha Thanks Mx2! Smile 06-17-04, 09:55 PM honilov Sammy, all I can do is wish your brother good luck and I hope he can kick the habit with some help. Regardless to how bad it is, PLEASE stick by him. He needs your support more than ever now.
06-18-04, 05:30 AM DvdGStwrt Used to be that the doctors would give you methadone, another form of opiate (which heroin is) which would be used to ease you off the heroin onto a substance which doesn't come with the hard fall of Withdrawal. That of course takes a prescription. They might be using something else nowadays, I haven't been around those things for nearly a decade, so I don't know.
An alternative in this case (something I would not suggest for everybody) is to ween himself off. Since medical/professional help is out of the question and it looks like we wants off in secret.
There are a couple of set backs to this:
1. Drug charges if caught will be just as bad if he wasn't trying to quit.
2. It was too easy to go the whole way instead of part way. This is part of addiction and unfortunately he may be tempted to do it all instead of just part.
I DO NOT KNOW DOSES for heroin. So the FOLLOWING IS AN EXAMPLE: He knows what he is doing, he knows what is half and what is quarter of what he is doing. If my suggestion is more that what he is doing, do not think that he needs to do more than what he is doing to do this. This is an EXAMPLE based on a simple whole number of a gram a day. There may need be a little calculation needed to figure out what is half of what he is doing. I assume he is up to every day, since heroin is a fast and hard addiction. If not, then adjust the time taken. Ideally he should cut back to a dose when the withdrawl kicks in, practically he should cut back following a program which is understandable and easy to set real goals to attain a greater goal.
EXAMPLE: If he is doing a gram a day, then he should cut back to 1/2 a gram a day for about a week or two. Then he should cut back to 1/4 Gram a day for another week or two, then cut back to 1/4 gram every two days, then 1/4 every three days. By that time he should have reduced enough to the point where he is able to stop and not suffer the excruciating effects of Withdrawal AS MUCH as cold turkey stopping.
This is a do it yourself kind of weening which may not work. It will require a strength of will to refuse to do a full when you can only do a half.
If he gets down to 1/4 per day and can't cut any lower without the symptoms of Withdrawal, he may want to try using pot (weed, Mary jane) Another ILLEGAL drug, however pot has been found to break a lot of the symptoms that heroin Withdrawal has. A 1/2 joint or a toke when the symptoms hit will break insomnia, will break nausea, will break the loss of appetite, will break the irritability Pretty much getting high in an alternative way which is softer on the system than heroin. For the Diarrhea and Upset stomach there is petobismal, works every time, follow the directions.
Again pot IS AN ILLEGAL substance and can get him caught up with the law. However given the circumstances and given a real desire to quit a worse habit IN THIS CASE I suggest this method.
HOWEVER I WANT IT CLEARLY KNOWN that I am more desirous that he takes the legal, medical approach to this. Heroin is a strong b--- of a lady and she has a hold which many men (and women) can't break without medical, professional help. I STRONGLY and sincerely urge you with the depth of my whole being to seek out professional, medical help in this.
David
06-18-04, 12:54 PM samantha Thanks Honilov i do appreciate that and I will stick by him if he does quit...and David THANK YOU so much for that information which I will pass on...
06-18-04, 01:01 PM MommyTimesTwo David
That was a terrific, practical, and caring post. You are such a great person, and I for one are so glad you are here. Smile
06-19-04, 11:05 AM Chris F They still do give methadone for heroin addiction. It does have a withdrawal effect just as heroin does, though not as bad. However, they then give clonidine to help get off of methadone. It's trading one drug for another, but it's currently the only method.
He should not just quit cold-turkey. Opiate addiction alters the brain, and the body. Doing so can cause permanent damage.
The recommendation of Pepto-Bismol is NOT good. Pepto-Bismol is a salicylate derivative. Do not recommend this drug under any circumstance. It's kind of a health-oxymoron. It can cause GI problems such as bleeding or worse.
Professional medical help is the only way to go in this case.
06-21-04, 12:52 AM samantha Thank you for that advice
06-21-04, 01:12 AM DvdGStwrt I selected pepto over any other suggestions because it is the least likely to react or interact with t he heroin.
Mind I'm not a pharmacist and know all the drug interactions, if I did I would have offered up some other over the counter stuff. Again this is just another reason why professional treatment is best.
I do know enough to not mix an opiate with a speed, ie. coffee, caffeine, antihistamines, etc. That could lead to a serious problem. I do not know what Amodium AD contains.
David
06-24-04, 10:24 AM samantha Up date on what is going on. He decided to go into a detox center which i think may be a week he left two days ago. I thought it was interesting that they are treating Herion withdraw with darvecets for some reason. Tho, he started calling last night telling us to come and get him and all and none of us would.I talked to his consolur since he put me on his list and she said that hes having a very bad time but not from the herion now they are controlling that with darvecets but with atavin withdraw so they had to give him some libirum but they said if he can get out now and come home he will use right now cause hes right at that stage. She said hes having an awful time right now. I had NO idea that atavin would have symptoms like this... Frown Oh and then he is supsosed to go in patient for another 30 days after he complets this part. I only hope he continues..its hard to hear him crying and asking to be piced up on the phone. So we stopped answering it...and that is even harder
06-24-04, 10:56 AM MommyTimesTwo I know it hurts, but I think that is fairly common. I don't think it's the medication causing the behaviour though, I think it's the withdrawal.
I have not seen this first hand in someone I knew, but rather I saw a lot of people detoxing when I worked in the hospital. Usually alcohol, but other drugs too. The withdrawal is not just mental--it is physically painful too. But what you need to keep reminding yourself is how much worse it would be if he continued using. Or how much worse it would be if he caught a disease from using dirty equiptment, or something like that.
You're so good to be there for him. I know you probably feel like you've abandoned him because you aren't answering the phone, but that is really the best thing you can do. He needs to focus internally and on his recovery.
06-25-04, 05:05 PM soaringhorse Samantha, I am so glad you let the professionals handle this. This is a pretty serious drug. I hear what you're saying about your brother wanting to get out, that's very common. I didn't want to stay either when I went in, everything is very controlled, they are keeping an eye on you, as well scheduled classes, and counselling. I'm surprised he's even allowed to call for the first twenty-four hours, I wasn't. Then it was about three days, before anyone could call me and that was watched closely. They have to be very careful, in these situations, anything could make them want to leave. The main thing is that if he can just last a couple more days, and get the right attitude, that he's got to do this to save his life, then he'll make it. I've seen so many just walk out because of anger, (I almost did) or just that they're too weak. This is the hardest part, just to stay there. It will take alot for you to be strong but it is so important to be firm, and supportive. Just remember he is going through hell right now but he will be so much better in the long run. I pray he makes it, good luck with your brother, I wish mine would get off the pot, but he seems to think there's nothing wrong with it, so I guess he'll always not remember things. Roll Eyes I guess he will never grow up, just stuck in that hippie stage, lol. I just worry that my brother is doing more than just the weed. Oh well, can't beat my head against the wall, he's got to realize it himself. Take care, Soaringhorse
06-29-04, 02:59 AM DvdGStwrt I am so glad to hear that this is being done with medical help.
I warned that withdrawal is bad, but there is no way to express how bad.
I feel for him and you both, this is an extreme trying time, and both of you are in my prayers.
If it helps know that many of us here have you and your brother in our thoughts and prayers.
God bless
David
06-29-04, 09:13 AM samantha Thanks guys but he walked out of the treatment center after three days and is home trying now to do it on his own...im really upset Frown
06-29-04, 10:05 AM MommyTimesTwo He's not your responsiblity, Sammy. If he makes bad choices, all you can do is let him. I know it's sad and painful, but he has the option to get help and he refused it. There's nothing more you can do. Frown
06-29-04, 02:40 PM honilov I'm sorry to hear that, Sammy. You've tried to help, and now you've got to take care of yourself. Be there if he asks for your help, but I think you've offered all that you can.
06-29-04, 11:51 PM samantha Thanks again I know hes not my responsibity but i still care....someone has to
06-30-04, 12:10 AM DvdGStwrt Best of luck to him. I pray he makes it through this.
Now its time to turn your attention to the most important person right now, and that is you.
I strongly urge you to find and attend Al-anon meetings.
Why Al-anon? because it is composed of other people who have been in the shoes you are in RIGHT NOW. They have the benefit of experience and know what is coming, what is around the corner and most of all they can sympathize with you and give you the strength to do those things you need to do to be good to yourself.
He is making choices, they may be bad choices, but they are his to make. No matter how much you love him, how much you want to take this burden off his shoulders, you can't.
For him it is living hell inside, and he can't see it hurting anyone else. For you it is living hell because you see the hurt and want to do something - anything to stop the hurting. Unfortunately this is the point where you can't, and as hard as it is to face, you are helpless.
Yes they will talk about alcoholism, however addiction is an ism as well and there are many Al-anon Members who deal with both in one person. The site may appear to have no place for siblings, but Al-Anon is for all who have an alcoholic or an addict in their life who they care for and want to do something to help.
I strongly urge you to find a local meeting and go to it, you don't have to say anything if you don't want - however I hope that after the meeting you will talk with someone, anyone there and ask them for help. Cause you are going to need physical people, phone numbers, and meetings in order to deal with the feelings and the situations you will find yourself in over this.
Of course we are here for you, but we can't reach out and give you a real hug, or sit for hours listening when you need it most. Besides I seriously doubt you want to share everything on such a public forum as this. We feel for you, and feel your pain, but I fear that the miles and the public nature of the forum precludes us from being able to give you direct, personal help when you need it most.
And again, as always, you and he are in our prayers here.
David
06-30-04, 12:23 AM samantha Thanks SO MUCH David this is exactly what I need to do. I was wondering where to find these at...You are So much help and I want you to know I do appreciate all you say and your knowledge you pass on to me. HUGS Smile
One question here if he goes to meetings and all does he have someone he can talk to if he ever feels the urge say in the middle of the night or whenever? Thanks
06-30-04, 03:44 AM DvdGStwrt Ok Al-anon is for you, and other folk who know an addict, or an alcoholic.
AA and NA are for alcoholic/addicts.
To remember that, just remember this joke:
"Al-anon is an exclusive club, you got to know someone. AA/NA is open to any old drunk who walks in"
This is a joke but it clears up what program is for what purpose.
Should he elect to go to NA http://www.na.org/ (which has updated recently as well) He will be offered a lot of suggestions.
Such as get phone numbers and use them. In some meeting places they pass around a list during the meeting (or more, depending on how many new faces are in the room) those old timers who have been there and who want to put their name and phone number. At the end of the meeting self elected greeters will take these to the new folk and offer them to the new person with the suggestion to call people if they feel like using.
Some meetings you tend to get the old timers coming up and offering their numbers. that can be a little intimidating for a new comer who most often is just wanting to see, not partake - at first.
Another suggestion is getting a sponsor. Sponsorship is where a person who has more clean time kind of takes you under their wing, helps you with some of your steps, becomes your key person who you talk to about things you don't want to share in meetings. The theory is that the person with more time clean has the experience and the know how on many of the issues.
As a sponsor myself, I can tell you that my years of experience amount to a hill of beans at times, but at other times I say some sage bit of wisdom that strikes home. Not to get to in depth on this one, I find that I have to listen a lot more than I talk, and then I turn to the Big book for help in many meetings with my sponsees. They have my number and they know to call me at any time, day or night, no matter when they get the urge. I have gone out in the wee hours of the morning to sit in their house until they are asleep, after talking them down from a "I might as well go out" emotional crises. I am not the only sponsor who has done these things. Most sponsors do. Being a sponsor is understood to come with a great deal of responsibility, it is a voluntary position, one which none take lightly and all sponsors are pretty certain of their limits and when to call in their sponsor to help - Yes it is a chain, and that chain is there to help all involved.
Sponsor/Sponsee relationships are friendly, but there needs to be a high level of trust, so that relationship can be a helpful one. There are many no no subjects that Sponsors will not talk about when it comes to questions asked about their sponsee's. Go a head, ask me if my sponsee is single. You will find that I can say "I'm his sponsor, I do not have his permission to answer that." all night long. Big Grin
NA and AA are 12 step programs (I think there is one for every thing under the sun now days) It comes with the Big Book, a book which has stories of others who have been there, the steps and definitions of the 12 steps. helpful reminders and is considered the NA/AA Bible (But doesn't replace the Holy Bible)
Meetings are the alternative to drug dens, bars, clubs, etc. And they are usually highly emotional consisting of a Share, where a volunteer (usually with several years) tells their story, what they were like before program (Meetings) what happened, and what they are like now. Some meetings will be direct study of the 12 steps, each meeting focusing on one of the steps, people talking about it, etc. Its not all work, many laughs, many silly things take place too. These are places where people meet, without judgment without anger, but with understanding that comes from having been there.
Through out the whole thing there is a great caring and wide support net. However this net only works if the person uses it, calls those numbers, attends meetings, reads the big book, attempts to apply the 12 steps to their daily life. These are suggestions, no one holds a gun to the person's head, but they person is reminded of these suggestions all the time.
Shares are both private and public - he is not obligated to ever share his story, he may instead just want to talk to one person. There are many things I never shared at meetings but did open up with my Sponsors (I was special, I needed more than one - Having more than one is ok, if you need them, that's why they are there)
Another reason why we pass out our phone numbers is to make a network of friends who are not in the drug scene.
My home meetings (The place where I go to meetings most often)is where my base friends are, many of those friends have parties at their house for holidays and potential trouble days, like super bowl sunday, new years eve. I made several friends at meetings to replace my drug friends. That is one of the reasons why meetings work.
Meetings are open to everyone and anyone. It will be assumed that you are an addict/alcoholic if you go, but even sober people are welcomed. Especially loved ones.
To hear the stories of other addicts/alcoholics may reveal a world that the clean person never dreamed of, and hearing it coming from so many mouths drives it home that the problem is endurable and fixable. Also going with him will give him the emotional support he needs to get started. having a loved one, a familiar face the first few meetings makes it far easier to adjust to what is for many a strange environment which is saying strange things like "You are not alone" "You don't have to do it alone" "One day at a time".
Worse yet is the hugs - Yep they all hug each other, pray too. It can be scary the first few times.
I hope this answered your question and gave you more answers.
Cheers
David
06-30-04, 09:15 AM samantha Once again David im so glad you said all of this for me and him. I am going to look into meetings and ask him if hes ready to go I will be more than glad to go with him at least till he is comfortable with going. I so appreciate all you done here and I wish you were close to be a sponser for him I just know you are a great one and I bet you have helped tons of people. Thank you so much Sammy
BTW do you have any idea what is in Darvects that helps a herion addict?
06-30-04, 06:57 PM soaringhorse Samantha, I really am sad to hear he walked out, the third day is pretty bad, thats usually when you either stick to your guns or give up. I really hate to say this but the only person who is going to be able to make him stop is HISSELF. I know you want to help him and you really care for him, so the best thing to do is get educated, even if he is unwilling to go to meetings and get his sponsor, you need to get support at the Al Anons, like David said. It's going to be a rocky road ahead, so get armoured. I hope you don't worry yourself sick, and not take care of yourself, because that's not going to help anyone. But most importantly there's going to be a time when you just can't be a crutch anymore, that means tough love. I know you love him, but you can only take so much, you know?
06-30-04, 08:00 PM DvdGStwrt Darvocet is a Narcotic:
(Websters) 1 a : a drug (as opium) that in moderate doses dulls the senses, relieves pain, and induces profound sleep but in excessive doses causes stupor, coma, or convulsions b : a drug (as marijuana or LSD) subject to restriction similar to that of addictive narcotics whether physiologically addictive and narcotic or not 2 : something that soothes, relieves, or lulls
See heroin has those physical addictions which are super strong and very hard to break when not using heroin (Heroin is an opiate = opium). Darvocet also has the potential to ease the hebbie jeebbies as well.
It is Doctor's preference to ween the body off the addiction, the physical addiction to the opiate (heroin), there are various medications out there which have similar affects but are not as strong when it comes to physical addiction and the symptoms of withdrawal. Cold turkey is ill advised since it can lead to any number of complications.
Like my early suggestion to use pot was to substitute the heroin for something that would feed the physical addiction while lowering the withdrawal symptoms, ie reduces nauseu, increases appeitite, makes it possibel for the pateint to sleep, etc. Darvocet and other opiates are used depending on the severity and the amount of heroin used during the course of the addiction.
The doctor should be seeing the patient several times over a long period of time, each time the aim would be to reduce the dose of darvocet, weening the patient off the drug.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the doctor is calling for frequent blood tests - Contrary to poular believe, the Doctor is not checking to see if the patient is using illegal drugs, he is monitoring the level of his perscription drug, checking the liver for potential chemical signs of damage, and other blood levels to indure that no severe, symptomless until beyond repair issues are taking place due to the drug being used. The instance of checking for drug use during this course is random and may at times not even take place.
Hopes this explained it.
Cheers
David
08-12-04, 10:52 PM Wildflower63 I admit it! I did not read the replies. What your friend is asking for is impossible. There is no such thing as the easy way out of addiction or withdrawl. Your friend has to get professional help and it sounds like an inpatient rehab unit is needed. They are aware of the symptoms and risks of withdrawl and take precautionary measures to prevent any risk to health. It also gives the support needed and teaching.
Your friend has no easy way out. The only realistic way to help your friend is to strongly encourage inpatient rehab.
08-20-04, 12:00 PM samantha Hi Wildflower nice to see you again...an update here on him he went to a doctor and got help they put him on a medicine to block his urge to use its called methodone...and its working great Smile
ALSO he got HIV and heptitis tested and a liver panel cause he admited of sharing a few needles even though he said he bleached them Roll Eyes and all his tests were CLEAN!! OMG im sooo happy now he has got to go to therapy or those meetings while hes on the methodone then sometime i don't know when they will wean him off of that and he will be finally back to normal... Big Grin
Another person he knows from his drug days just died he commited suicide...thats the second one in a year... Frown
08-20-04, 02:58 PM Elexina Samantha, I am so glad that he's getting help. Remember, he probably needs support and encouragement, but don't let yourself get overwhelmed! Methadone is a great thing for heroin addicts. But be sure that he gets retested in six months, because HIV doesn't always show up right away. I'm sure they told him that at the doctor's though. I am glad that he was tested. That is very important. Sorry to hear about the suicide. However, hopefully this will help your friend see the alternative to staying clean, hopefully it will help him stay on the right track.
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