I get sick of parents acting so innocent. The majority of us have been drunk and do get trashed on some regular basis. We do pay for it the next day. With pot, no addiction potential and no hangover. What would you choose? One addictive and legal or the other illegal and non-addictive.
Pretend you are a teen of today. What will you spend fun time doing? Your homework so you get straight As and get satisfaction out of that as a fun fix? Do you stay home with Mom, having no friends to hang with? Do you hit the church get together?
Let's get real! Teens want no part of our adult expectations. They want to experiment with life to find their own nitch. Our kids live in a sex and drug soaked culture. I have HBO and ShowTime. My daughter and I like a few of their series, which are not edited, like commercial TV. It is actually shocking to me that these drugs are illegal. I see smoking weed, meth, and even snorting X, which is dangerous, regularly on cable TV series.
Anyone who doesn't have cable TV today is living in the past tense. Our kids are seeing MTV, HBO, ShowTime, and other unedited television. Drugs are the norm, on TV.
Do you realistically expect you teen not to ever experiment with drugs, given today's culture? *************************************************************8 09-20-04, 05:41 AM shelster I expect my teen (almost a teen anyway) to not experiment with drugs yes.
I haven't. I haven't even seen pot in my life.
If I can do it, so can she.
09-20-04, 06:19 AM Jelp01 I don't have kids so have no personal experience to draw on, other than my own: I never did nor have done any drugs, gotten drunk, nor even so much as smoked a cigarette. I'm certainly no example of virtue, either; I just chose never to do the above things. I grew up in a town of 500, so while there were drugs, they weren't as prevalent in my town. And there was certainly alcohol; every kid in high school knew when and where the next keg party was going to be held. I was fortunate to have friends who had no desire to party; our group was about the only ones in our school who didn't. And my dad wasn't always a nice person; he would have half killed me if I had ever dared get drunk or do drugs.
All that to say this: it certainly can't be easy to be a parent of teen-agers these days. I guess it's for that reason I'm glad I don't nor won't have kids. I'm not sure I could handle it.
With cable nowadays, I can see why it would be harder. I guess my answer would be I would hope that if I had teens they wouldn't try it.
09-20-04, 06:27 AM shelster I guess I should add a few things. I live in a college town, grew up here. So, drugs are very available. My boyfriend at the time (now hubby!) went to all the parties, etc, so the opportunities were very much there.
I grew up during the late 80s and early 90s (graduated in 92) so its not like I was around during a "drug free, clean TV" time period. It can be done. Its about making the right decisions. I do take my kids to church with me, many of their friends are there.
I do believe that kids can grow up without experimenting with drugs. I cannot believe that 99% of kids in this country have tried them. And, if we just go with the flow, and expect that it will happen, that is rolling over playing dead to the problems.
09-20-04, 02:30 PM jusork I don't think most parents really expect anything. But they do wish that their kids will do what is best (or seems best from their worried-filled perspective). A parent wouldn't be any more suprised than they would if their kid did anything else that they weren't supposed to. But I would imagine that since it's illegal, a parent would be surprised to see their kid, for the first time, breaking a serious law knowing full well, risking all kinds of stuff. But I definitely could see a parent who emphasises negativity of drug use and seems like they brought them up with good judgment and all, would probably be very surprised to learn that their kid is doing something that they had learned isn't positive.
Most kids aren't into hard drugs, but I think most parents would be suprised to learn that their well brought up son was eexperimenting with something even worse and truly more harmful than weed. Parents may think of it as one of their nightmare possibilities, but they'd probably hope that their child never gets around it and perhaps stay with more innocent drugs at least. There's probably a similar way of thinking for parents towards lighter drugs.
There are quite a few teens today who have tried drugs a few times. But I don't think that many make it into a significant routine activity. Most kids do have goals and plenty of other major activities in their lives even if they do drugs.
To say teens want to move away from their parents' lives is pretty ridiculous. Kids follow most of the same traditional things their parents did and they know this. And saying we live in a sex and drug soaked world is a big overstatment. The lives of most kids are actually pretty similar to their parents'. There's not some underground hippie movement all over the suburbs.
And average teens seem to actually watch prime time regular, non-cable TV more. And I don't think MTV allows drugs to be shown on the channel. They sponsor a lot of anti-drug commercials. And maybe my memory's bad, but does cable really show that much drug use? I can't really think of that much that really portrays it in any kind of forms that make kids wonder what it's like or want to be able to do that. Pay Per View channels might show it in good and bad ways but I know Pay Per View doesn't come with cable for everyone. And a kid can hear about people doing drugs all the time and everywhere on TV, but that certainly doesn't mean he's going to go look for some. I had friends who did drugs and heard about kids doing it some and saw people doing it in various media, but I never had any kind of urge to do it until the opportunity came up. So I really don't think seeing it on TV or something would just suddenly spark something in most kids to give it a try.
To conclude, it is very realistic to be able to not be exposed to drugs as a kid. Lots of kids stay away from them or tried it once never to try it again (the later is me). A kid could go to a friend's house and easily say no to an offer if he really wanted to. He could go to a party and never think about how there are people doing drugs in the other room. And plenty of kids have clean parties and fun times all the time.
09-20-04, 03:10 PM jusork Oh and I'm agnostic and my family isn't religious at all, and I'm on academic probation with a 1.7 or so right now. So going to church and getting straight A's isn't really something that's filling up my lack of drugs. If that makes any difference.
09-20-04, 05:29 PM clarebear Great post Jusork.
quote:
Pretend you are a teen of today. What will you spend fun time doing? Your homework so you get straight As and get satisfaction out of that as a fun fix? Do you stay home with Mom, having no friends to hang with? Do you hit the church get together?
My son spends his time doing lots of fun things without doing drugs. Just because you don't do drugs doesn't mean you have no friends, you are not popular,have to stay home with your mom and go to church groups. (although my son used to go to church groups and thought they were cool) My son has been through a lot in his 16 years. (Many members have followed some of his problems the last 2 years) He is doing the best he can with what he has. My son plays the guitar, goes to see movies, goes to concerts, he works a part time job, hangs out at the mall, hangs out at friends houses and goes to carnivals and festivals. He plays board games, video games and spends all other waking moments on the computer. We don't have premium cable channels but it we did, that wouldn't matter. A TV show won't make you do drugs. Not all kids will do drugs. I think drug awareness begins at an earlier age. In my son's circle, it is "uncool" to get high or smoke. You are considered stupid if you do.
FYI: Some of the classes taught in elementary schools in Michigan:
I don't expect my son to experiment with drugs but I know it is possible. I do think that where he is right now in his life, that it is very unlikely he will use them.
09-23-04, 01:01 AM Wildflower63
quote:Originally posted by jusork: Most kids aren't into hard drugs, but I think most parents would be surprised to learn that their well brought up son was experimenting with something even worse and truly more harmful than weed. Parents may think of it as one of their nightmare possibilities
This post is exactly what I wished to point out. Teens do try drugs. They also do more than what parents think. They are good at hiding it from a parent who threatens to send them to boarding school, for example, and lie and cover it up. The parent knows absolutely nothing at all.
Parents do not realize how easy it is for teens to get away with smoking weed or glass. They have tricks to fool us, even ex-druggie parents who also experimented, as a teen and know exactly what the drug culture is. I was not quite as enlightened as I thought.
Tricks of the trade: 1) Breath mints are a must. 2) Visine, if I spelled that correctly, is an essential. 3) Boys will buy dryer sheets and duct tape them. Rub all over clothing. They work well to cover up a weed smell. 4) Girls use perfume and body sprays, with the exact same result. Parents cannot distinguish a particular scent. 5) Claim you are tired. Don't talk to parents, if it can be avoided. They aren't stupid. They just play it cool. 6) Problem for parents, we are used to rediculious behavior from our teens. If the suddenly act strange, we don't even notice. They pull this too often, when sober.
Apply the same rules for X and glass, which are speedy drugs that teens experiment with. They can't sleep, with a good excuse. Teens are famous for being illogical and overly emotional. The will have some logical reason as to why they can't sleep, every time.
quote:Originally posted by clarebear: My son spends his time doing lots of fun things without doing drugs. Just because you don't do drugs doesn't mean you have no friends, you are not popular,have to stay home with your mom and go to church groups. (although my son used to go to church groups and thought they were cool) My son has been through a lot in his 16 years.....He plays board games, video games and spends all other waking moments on the computer. We don't have premium cable channels but it we did, that wouldn't matter. A TV show won't make you do drugs. Not all kids will do drugs.
Clair, I don't want to be awful to you at all, but your son is a classic nerd. I feel like the next thing you are going to tell me, is that your son is in the band, making cool even more horrible.
You are stating that your son lacks socialization. He plays board games and spends his life on a computer. The choir boy, at church, and liking it, is fatal to the teen popularity contest, which they are all stupid enough to want to rank up there.
Even though this does make life easier on you, isolation, with computers and TV are not healthy at all, given his age and needs, of a teen. Teens dream of being a famous rock star, or something close to it. They want to be cool. They want a zillion friends. They want popularity, which I don't see that your son has, if this is life for him.
I am not criticizing you as a parent, by any stretch of the imagination. My kids seem to think living like a vagrant is normal. My daughter doesn't get it, why I can't move out of this house, which is mortgaged, during divorce negotiation, leading nowhere. I spent quite a few years, with both of my kids, living life, where ever it put us. It sure did make them adaptable!
Traditional, far from it, but maybe they needed to learn this. You could easily say that my kids have probably been through more than your son. I make no excuses for either of them, my druggie son and Goth daughter. Deal with it!! Life could be a whole lot worse. I can't divorce their father! It really is that complex.
quote:Originally posted by clarebear: I think drug awareness begins at an earlier age. In my son's circle, it is "uncool" to get high or smoke. You are considered stupid if you do.
FYI: Some of the classes taught in elementary schools in Michigan:
Back up a second! Are you really trying to tell me that parenting of young children is correlated with teen drug use? You have to be extremely uninformed about the psychology of a teen to say something of such ignorance.
You are very wrong, with this statement, just as many parents are, who happened to get lucky and have an easy kid to raise, not a teen seeking independence vs. dependence. This is normal teen psychology. Look it up, if you don't believe me. Use of drugs, or smoking weed, never was a legal or ethical issue. Teens do as they choose, not what you taught them because they are seeking independence from parents, which is a completely normal stage of growth and development.
Every parent of a teen who thinks their kid is on the straight an narrow, better look a bit closer. They may not be what you think, but act according to what you expect. Don't make a liar out of your teen or you cannot teach them a thing. Seriously!!
09-23-04, 02:31 AM MommyTimesTwo I can only speak from my own experiences as a teenager here, as my kids are not yet teens, but if you expect them to do it, they will do it.
I was taught "You're going to do it anyway, so go ahead, just don't get caught." I had absolutely no reason to avoid doing drugs, since my parents assumed I was going to do them anyway, and actually thought I tried them long before I did. "It's normal for teens to experiment with drugs", I was told, so I did. Little did I know that seeking independence from my parents did not have to equal seeking drug dependence.
Seeking independence from your parents can be achieved must better by getting job, volunteering, or learning to paint. Drugs are not the only way kids can learn to be independent, and it is NOT "normal teen psychology" to resort to drug use. Geez, what do you think kids did before drugs were available? Grow up abnormal?? They learned to be independent in healthy ways, not escapist, hedonistic ways.
I was never given the message that drugs were not okay. I was told "all kids try drugs", "I did drugs so I can't tell you not to", etc... .
First of all, not all kids do drugs. Most of my friends did not. In fact, I got a lot more crap from my friends for doing drugs than I ever got from my parents. And no, they were not all church group straight A students (what a horrible stereotype! The first kid I ever smoked pot with was a church youth group leader! Don't trust someone just because they are in a church, good god!)
Secondly, you can very well tell your kid not to do something you did. It's called sharing your experiences and helping them not make the same mistakes. You aren't a hypocrite if you screwed up as a kid and tell your kid not to do the same thing--you're a parent.
Third, thinking it is inevitable makes it inevitable. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy. I had a friend who's mom told her all the time "I got pregnant at 16, I know you will too!" Guess what? She beat her mom by a year and got pregnant at 15. Her mother never once told her not to have sex. She never said "I made a mistake, don't you do it too!" She told her that it was inevitable she would have sex and be a teenage mother, and did nothing to prevent that from happening.
Finally, kids really do listen to what their parents tell them. But more so they look at what their parents do. If you (and I don't mean you Wild, but you in general) sit around smoking cigarettes all day, and get into big 'hilarious' stories about your drug days with your friends in front of your kid, it won't matter how many times you remember to say "Don't do drugs", because they're getting the message loud and clear that drugs are fun. The first time your kid comes home late and you yell, but let them go out again the next day, you just told them they only have to put up with a few minutes of you yelling in order to do whatever they want.
Teenagers are not inevitably going to do drugs, sleep around, and be violent. Most kids aren't that way (if most kids were, it wouldn't be in the news when they killed each other--it wouldn't be unusual).
There are PLENTY of activities out there for a kid that don't involve getting high (in fact, I don't personally see getting high as an activity, but rather an escape from activiy, ie life.) However, there are many parents who provide no guidence for their child as to how to find these kinds of activities. The message is sent--you do whatever you want to do, because I am too busy to be there.
I speak from 100% experience here: The kind of child who gets into drugs has no desire to please their parents, because their parents have expressed no expectations of them besides not being in the way. The kind of kid who gets into drugs has no guidence when it comes to making good life choices--a few pat "don't do drugs" don't cut it. The kind of kid who gets into drugs is looking for something they can't find at home, and to numb the pain and fill the hours, they turn to the quick fix.
09-23-04, 04:20 AM clarebear Wildflower,
quote:Clair, I don't want to be awful to you at all, but your son is a classic nerd. I feel like the next thing you are going to tell me, is that your son is in the band, making cool even more horrible.
My son is a goth! He plays the guitar and he is very good at it. He listens to Yellow Card, Blink 182, Matchbox Romance and various punk bands. He has long hair, refuses to wear a logo. His latest shirt: Stupidity is not a crime- You are free to go.
quote:You are stating that your son lacks socialization. He plays board games and spends his life on a computer. The choir boy, at church, and liking it, is fatal to the teen popularity contest, which they are all stupid enough to want to rank up there.
He plays board games with ME. It is something we have always done since he was little. I actually spend time with my son doing things. My son is not a choir boy. His 13 year old friend committed suicide last year and he goes on Wednesday nights to a church group for counseling with a lot of other kids. He couldn't care less who thought he was popular.
quote: Even though this does make life easier on you, isolation, with computers and TV are not healthy at all, given his age and needs, of a teen. Teens dream of being a famous rock star, or something close to it. They want to be cool. They want a zillion friends. They want popularity, which I don't see that your son has, if this is life for him.
When he is home, he does spend time on the computer instant messaging his friends. So what.
quote:Back up a second! Are you really trying to tell me that parenting of young children is correlated with teen drug use? You have to be extremely uninformed about the psychology of a teen to say something of such ignorance.
I was saying that parents and kids are more aware of drugs since there are now programs that teach drug awareness at the schools.
Lets play the comprehension game: Question 1:
quote:I think drug awareness begins at an earlier age. In my son's circle, it is "uncool" to get high or smoke. You are considered stupid if you do.FYI: Some of the classes taught in elementary schools in Michigan:
A. Parents and kids are more aware of drugs since there are now programs that teach drug awareness at the schools.
B. Parenting of young children is correlated with teen drug use. (what you think I meant)
What does the above statement mean? Be sure to fill in the black circle completely. Roll Eyes
Everything else about my son is really nobody's business. You really are clueless. It is posts like this that tend to cause people to lash out to you. I didn't ask for your opinion on my son and where on the caste system he ranks. I would appreciate in the future that you keep your derogatory, uninformed comments about my son out of your threads. I'll let it go at that.
09-23-04, 06:30 AM shelster
quote:Teens do try drugs. They also do more than what parents think.
No, all teens do not try drugs.
quote: Clair, I don't want to be awful to you at all, but your son is a classic nerd. I feel like the next thing you are going to tell me, is that your son is in the band, making cool even more horrible.
Nice...wonder why people give you a rough time?
quote:just as many parents are, who happened to get lucky and have an easy kid to raise
No one is "lucky" to have an easy kid to raise. If you are saying our kids don't do drugs cause they were "easy" to raise and we were "lucky" YOU are the one that is seriously misinformed. Some of us are just less wrapped up in our own drama, and we are involved with our kids lives.
Mommytimestwo:
quote: I was taught "You're going to do it anyway, so go ahead, just don't get caught." I had absolutely no reason to avoid doing drugs, since my parents assumed I was going to do them anyway, and actually thought I tried them long before I did. "It's normal for teens to experiment with drugs", I was told, so I did. Little did I know that seeking independence from my parents did not have to equal seeking drug dependence.
AMEN
09-23-04, 11:41 AM MommyTimesTwo I wanted to add something:
quote:Are you really trying to tell me that parenting of young children is correlated with teen drug use? You have to be extremely uninformed about the psychology of a teen to say something of such ignorance.
This statement relies on the completely disproven theory that nothing a parent does in raising a child matters, their only influence is the media and peers.
That theory gained popularity solely because it allowed parents to blame everyone else for thier children's problems, and take no blame themselves.
How you raise your child when they are young is the sole factor that matters in how they are going to turn out. If you raise your child from the beginning with self-respect, accountability, the ability to know right from wrong, and the firm and unwavering knowledge that their parents love them more than anything in the world, they will not turn to drugs as a teenager to gain "independence".
If on the other hand, you raise your child with little or no responsiblity, little or no self-respect, no accountability when they screw up ("don't hurt the little darling's feelings!"), and ignore them most of the time because they are getting in the way of your own personal drama, they will seek out the escape of drugs.
Here is an example of what I'm trying to say: When my husband was 16, he was arrested at school for having a pot pipe in his pocket. He had no pot, and was not convicted of a crime.
Now in his job, he needs to get a higher level of security clearance to work on the plane at our new base. He was absolutely convinced he was going to be denied this clearance because of being arrested.
His Sgt finally sat him down and explained to him that being arrested and not convicted of anything is meaningless, it will not effect him, and it is not a big deal.
Why did my husband think this was such a big deal? Because he was raised to be accountantable for his actions, and to believe doing drugs and breaking the law was wrong. To him, what he did was a really big deal. He was punished for it, and was ashamed of himself for being so stupid, and hurting his mom.
On the other hand, we know a number of people who came into the military with drug convictions, and who continue to do drugs now (a bunch of people from the other plane on our base were arrested last year for selling and doing meth and coke). Many of these people maintain they are "doing nothing wrong". "If no one knows, who cares?" or "Pot never hurt anybody". They have no accountability for what they are doing. They have decided what they want to do is more important than obeying the law. To them, a few convictions is no big deal.
09-23-04, 10:50 PM jusork Wild, I think you deserately need to visit a school and observe it from the inside. Taking some notes of all the details might help a lot. Hopefully, you'll notice the complexity and diverseness of teens. I'm not sure how you'll be able to really tell which kids do drugs, but I think observing would at least help give another look at kid's general behavior and that social sterotyped characteristics are fairly blurry with many kids.
Every middle schooler knows that weed can have potential negative effects and, believe it or not, plenty of kids agree and don't use it for that reason. I've met plenty of kids who don't use drugs for whatever reason and they honestly are completely normal kids. Plus, most of my druggie friends weren't exactly captain of the football team. None of my friends that predominentaly come to mind would I consider big time popular, party people.
Here's a siteI found. (All of the facts actually show decreased use and increased perception of risk. Many of them mentioned as significant changes.) Looking at this PDF file though, it seems lower for some reason. Varying samples perhaps. And this one shows how drug use has its peak way back in 1979. It says that not even half of 8th, 10th, and 12th graders do drugs regularly. That means most kids don't do drugs. And like I said, plenty of kids would rather not do drugs. If a parent has reason to believe their kid doesn't do drugs, then I'd say they have a probably reason to believe it. And the statistics for hard drugs are extremely low. When you described X as something that teens experiment with, I got the impression you thought it was pretty prevalant, too. I don't think I've ever heard many kids talk about exstacy and it's not on this chart, but I bet it correlates with cocaine and the other serious drugs.
"The kind of kid who gets into drugs is looking for something they can't find at home, and to numb the pain and fill the hours, they turn to the quick fix." - Times2
I know a lot of kids who would oppose this stereotype. I can't think of that many kids who mentioned a bad homelife or seemed to be that affected by an being in an untraditional or unstable home. The friend that got me into drugs actually is quite close to his parents (I think they know he does drugs though), but still he does it for reasons other than emotions. I think most do it just for pleasure and leisure with friends. The majority of the ones I do know actually have a pretty stable life. I think that if a teen wasn't affected enough by all the reinforcement of the effects of drugs to try drugs, then I doubt parents talking to their kids would do much either. I think if a kid really views drug use as more harmful than worth the feeling, he or she won't continue into making it an activity. If the kid does continue, he or she just believes he/she can handle it or that it's not really that harmful to whatever their goals are (and there are kids who can lead a worthy life and who have goals).
And I actually think there at least two sole reasons (not possibly by definitioin but you get my drift), along with the atmosphere during the life as a young kid and toddler, personality is just as equally affecting. I definitely wouldn't say emotion during early life is a direct determinant of later life. A LOT can change with their personality that could cause them to do something that they're parents wouldn't approve. Just take a look at how many parents you've seen becoming ashamed that they must be bad parents for bringing them up this way or angry/sad or scared for their child's path/future. These are obviously parents who care, right? Why kids disobey and break rules is something Wild is actually brought up many times. Pretty much any kid grows up with basic respect for others (I think most who don't are either severly pushed to change his morals or are mentally ill), but breaking laws is different. People seem to usually break laws because they don't agree with them. I'm guessing most people who do drugs don't think they should be illegal or at least that they don't think drugs will significantly effect them enough. But since they don't see anything wrong with it but it's still illegal, they go behind closed doors and do their best to avoid officials finding out. And so, to them, it's not so much breaking the law, it's doing what they think shouldn't be illegal. You can be taught to follow laws all the time, but if you don't think the act is wrong and you make sure you're safe, you'd have no reason to see why it's wrong to go through the law since there's no basis for not doing it. Certainly no justificatioin to break laws, but I think it's understandable. It's how moral people break laws. A lot of people probably break laws like this and it's simply becasue all it is is a standard. People go through stop signs when there aren't any cars at the stop signs at the other roads because they see no reason to stop except as a precaution measure that they see as pointless because they know the measure doesn't need to be applied to them or their situation. And so they just ignore it (and then there happens to be a car coming the other way who doesn't stop either because they think you're going to stop). And these people respect all the other laws. Why? Because they know their importance.
Note: I don't think most people who do pot and such light drugs would think cocaine and other such hard drugs are anything but stupid. I don't think the two should be compared.
"a few pat "don't do drugs" don't cut it." This is actually what my parents did. When they started bringing the topic up though, I felt like it was already instilled anyway. I probably told them that and they felt like they didn't have much else to tell me about it.
Clare, I don't think Wild meant anything degrading by her descriptions of what your son seemed like to her. It was related even if it was assumptseemed critical
09-23-04, 11:06 PM MommyTimesTwo "The kind of kid who gets into drugs is looking for something they can't find at home, and to numb the pain and fill the hours, they turn to the quick fix." - Times2
As I said, that was my experience. I did not mean it as a stereotype, but rather from what I felt and what I saw with the kids I did drugs with.
In my experience, not one of the kids I regularly did drugs with had a relationship with thier parents. A large number of these kids lived on the streets (literally--they slept on street corners or crashed at other people's houses). Many were abused. More than one had run away.
There were a few kids who infrequently did drugs who had pretty normal home lives. Generally they did it once or twice, saw the lives of the kids who did it regularly, and left.
Again, I am not using a stereotype, but offering my observations after a few years in the drug culture.
09-23-04, 11:16 PM honilov Yes, I'd realistically expect my teen not to experiment with drugs, given today's culture. Any kid 'can' refuse drugs if they want to. I'd also expect my kid not to murder someone, even tho it's being done almost daily in today's culture. No one makes a kid do wrong, they do it willingly, but regardless, we love our kids and we/I will stick by them through thick and thin.
My expectations don't mean that they won't experiment, it's just what I expect.
09-24-04, 02:06 AM Wildflower63 I think that I just put my foot in my mouth again! From description, it sounded like the poster child of Classic Nerd, when I read it. I am not able to give my parenting congrats to that, making your kid a complete nerd. No way! I'm sure others thought the same thing, but were polite enough to shut up. I shouldn't have said it though. I am not so polite, but too honest, going off on what information in front of me.
This is the information given, by mom, that I had to make a judgment call on and it sure sounded Momma's Boy Nerd to me, so I very stupidly made Clair angry by saying exactly what I thought of her post. Here is her post and what adult wouldn't see what I did, Momma's Boy Nerd, written all over it? I don't mean to upset you, Clare, but you did say this and people do interpret your words to mean something.:
quote:Originally posted by clarebear: My son spends his time doing lots of fun things without doing drugs. Just because you don't do drugs doesn't mean you have no friends, you are not popular,have to stay home with your mom and go to church groups. (although my son used to go to church groups and thought they were cool) My son has been through a lot in his 16 years. (Many members have followed some of his .
For once in my life, I should have shut up, but I already know Clair doesn't like me anyway, so I found no point in not stating my exact thoughts, biased on the post, and nothing personal at all. For that I do apologize.
I see no loss of friendship here at all, especially given that she posted that I just didn't get it, about my son. I live with him and I don't need people to tell me about my son. I only posted that my son smoked weed. I didn't ask for a solution to this. Claire did give me lousy advice, but doesn't think so. She got up in arms when I posted on Missing Members, stating I left and why. I don't see why I should treat Clair any different than I have been treated here. I don't give feel good answers, ever. No one gave me any support here. I own a weedhead son, which makes me less of an decent human than those who raised their children better. Get over yourself! If you can dish it out, then grow up and take it. I couldn't care less about the AP Popularity contest.
With the latest post, I am not so sure we are talking Poster Child Nerd or Druggie Kid at all. First, I am picturing some fat kid playing on a computer, as a social outlet, besides getting excited about going to church, which bores adults to death. Now, I am getting a Goth Boy description. What gives here?
These are extremely opposing types. Goth teens do smoke weed. It isn't a matter of if, but when. I own a Goth Girl, don't forget. If Claire had bothered to give a more realistic picture, of her son, I wouldn't have called him a Poster Child of Nerd. When I did, she came up with the cool teen, who is easily drug adaptable and I know it. I already own two nightmare teens.
I very well may be going about it in all the wrong way, but I am trying to warn parents that have no clue what their teens are really doing. I don't expect any pot smoking teen to be as miserable to deal with, as my son. They usually aren't.
I am asking that parents who claim their teen children would never smoke weed, think again. I didn't believe it either. You would be so shocked at how may do smoke weed, as a lifestyle, today. Don't be so confident that your early teaching will pay off. My kids got plenty of that and my son is a complete druggie.
What gives here? My daughter has dyed jet black hair and goes completely Goth, even if teens have no clue of the true Goth culture. They are artistic and believe in individuality. I bet they are frothing at the mouth over the Goth stores at every mall stealing their creativity and commercializing it, which they also hate.
I know that teens don't understand this sub-culture. It just looks cool. If my own daughter doesn't look like a druggie, shopping only at Hot Topic, I don't know what does. She says she doesn't use drugs. Claire has a Goth son also. The rest of the peers are experimenting and I want to know what makes any of our teens exempt from this. I don't buy parental teaching, because I tried that lecture to the point they could recite it for me, my words.
My daughter is painfully honest to the point of rude and sees it as anyone else's problem, if they can't deal, without getting so emotional, which neither of us like at all. I suck at being personable, as my daughter does. I am good at saying exactly what I think and will defend it, no matter who I offended. So does my daughter, but she is worse than me. It is called a value for honesty.
Given that my daughter is honesty prone, no matter how much it suck hearing it, she told me that I was stupid if I thought she would never try weed or other drugs. She told me to get real. What on earth am I supposed to do with this?
My son lied, manipulated, and deceived. My daughter is different. She will say anything, like her mother, whether or not you want to hear it. As much as I think my daughter is completely disrespectful, I have to give her credit for speaking honestly, which my son never did.
I never said a single word to either of my kids that I expect them to use drugs, as mentioned in a previous post. I may fear a lot of negative behavior, but never open my mouth to my kids saying I expect you to be an idiot. I expect them to be far more. Both kids know my standards, which they may never live up to, but the bar is higher than saying smoke weed, much higher!
Claire's first statement about her son was the poster child of complete nerd and fat kid on a computer. Now, she says he is way Goth cool. Which is it? Kids that dress like this send a signal, just as my daughter does. It says, "Feed me drugs!"
Make up you mind, Claire. My daughter does the Goth thing also. I don't condone, but since she choose to display herself in this way, I expect her to experiment with drugs. She is sending all the social signals and so is your son, if I am to believe your second post, Goth Boy. Do you understand that he is attracting more than style? I got that one figured out! Now, I just watch and wait. It sucks.
09-24-04, 06:16 AM shelster "Claire's first statement about her son was the poster child of complete nerd and fat kid on a computer. Now, she says he is way Goth cool. Which is it? Kids that dress like this send a signal, just as my daughter does. It says, "Feed me drugs!" "
Maybe you should stop stereotyping teenagers. This is the thing they all rebel against in the first place.
Sounds to me like your kids are the exact carbon copy of you. Honest to the point of rude (quoting you) and extremely emotional (again, your words) and my guess is they are doing drugs to try to cope.
09-24-04, 12:38 PM MommyTimesTwo I have to ask, what exactly is wrong with being a "nerd"?
I am the world's biggest nerd, and I always have been, even when I was being "cool" and doing drugs. I watch Star Trek. I read Jane Austin. I'm extremely good at math. I play internet games and post on discussion boards describing dollar cost averaging. I once won an award for getting the highest grade in physics. I like classical music. I played clarinet for 10 years. I even wear bifocals.
So What??
That's a heck of a message to send to kids. "If you do your homework, spend time with your parents, and don't do drugs, you're a nerd and people will pick on you." So in return you get a kid who is so "cool" that they flunk out of school, ignore everything their parents tell them, and do drugs. Is that what you wanted?
I'm proud to be who I am, and if I'm a nerd, then I'm proud to be a nerd. And I am raising my kids to be proud nerds too!
BTW--I was picked on a LOT more in school for being a druggie than I EVER was for being a "nerd". People like people who are themselves, not burnouts who play a role.
09-24-04, 04:28 PM jusork "She came up with the cool teen, who is easily drug adaptable and I know it."
Actually, some of the most average kids are into sports and, for this reason, are often the ones most likely to say it's stupid to do drugs (since it reduces your athletics and stuff).
"I want to know what makes any of our teens exempt from this. I don't buy parental teaching, because I tried that lecture to the point they could recite it for me, my words."
No kid is exempt from this. I think all the people who've responded to this is clear on that. I agree with you that a parent might not know what their child is doing in secret, but since I've shown how there are about half as many kids who don't do drugs at all than have done them once or more, there are parents who can have true reason to believe their son doesn't do drugs. Even more parents have true reason to believe their kids haven't done drugs more than a few times. Also like I mentioned, many average kids agree with choosing not to do drugs. Your questions have been responded to in some way by someone here. And I'm still interested in hearing why you don't feel these responses don't answer anything for you. Why do my observations seem unlikely for you?
Wild, seeing as how we've all brought up personal details, I think we should expect those things to be poked at and drawn out into a point of some kind. It seems more like you're just describing your conception of her son to show he's a good kid and somehow this means something about his personality. She's already described what his personality is like and doing so completely discredits your image of a kid who doesn't smoke. She described him like typical social teens that don't do drugs. This type of kid is very large like I mentioned and most likely he truly fits it. And she clearly mentioned other activities besides board games, computer, and church that show he's a plenty social person. Just as social as any druggie or any other average kid. You're clearly just skewing her points.
I'm not sure where Clare criticized your son for anything though (and actualy Clare said your response to the spot which seems to be where you concluded she implied criticism wasn't the point she actually intended for you to get). You did bring up your son as examples however. To help explain our points and thoughts to your question, we involve examples that you're familiar with. And only reason you haven't gotten the advice you were looking for is because you were looking for a way to help your son without having to take drugs away from him and the only people who had any suggestions were those who believed getting him off drugs could be helpful. I'm not sure if there was anyone who had any ideas that involved staying on drugs, but what they said might not have had much advice to it. There's no intent on criticizing your son for using drugs. GEtting off drugs just happens to be what they think would work best. They obviously are telling it like they see it, too, no? It seems like an understandable reason to suggest. You disagree on their suggestion. They disagree that that's the most affective thing to do. It should stop there. There's no underlying intent. This is all there is. Disagreeing with your ideas of drugs is all they are doing and all they are saying to you. And I'd even bet that if you realize they are just disagreeing with your position on drugs, they be honesly willing to respect your view, too. Just don't come at their opinion so defensively when they think the reason your kids do drugs is becasue you didn't raise them to stay away from it. Simply respond saying why that not the real reason like you've kind of done already only often buried inside a defense. Am I right? Make sense? Perhaps we all need to not take things so personally. Try working on this. Really, make it a goal. If you biasly read a post, you'll just start formulating false meaning in them. So read it from the other person's perspective or something. Just discuss our thoughts without accussing each other of thinking something.
"Goth teens do smoke weed."
And some don't. I don't see how having goth style makes any kind of point though.
"My daughter has dyed jet black hair and goes completely Goth, even if teens have no clue of the true Goth culture. They are artistic and believe in individuality."
If this is your view of goth, then I see even more of a likeliness for a good kid to dress in black and be an individual. There are plenty of goth kids (or whatever this 'kids who wear black' thing is being called here) who are religious, and the things that Clare's son does really don't seem opposed to an artisitic, individualist, kid-who-wears-black type at all.
"She came up with the cool teen, who is easily drug adaptable and I know it."
Actually, some of the most average kids are into sports and, for this reason, are often the ones most likely to say it's stupid to do drugs (since it reduces your athletics and stuff).
"I want to know what makes any of our teens exempt from this. I don't buy parental teaching, because I tried that lecture to the point they could recite it for me, my words."
No kid is exempt from this. I think all the people who've responded to this is clear on that. I agree with you that a parent might not know what their child is doing in secret, but since I've shown how there are about half as many kids who don't do drugs at all than have done them once or more, there are parents who can have true reason to believe their son doesn't do drugs. Even more parents have true reason to believe their kids haven't done drugs more than a few times. Also like I mentioned, many average kids agree with choosing not to do drugs. Your questions have been responded to in some way by someone here. And I'm still interested in hearing why you don't feel these responses don't answer anything for you. Why do my observations seem unlikely for you?
Times2, Wild is seeing a nerd as someone who isn't very social and is unlikely to do drugs. For some reason, she thinks Clare's son is mostly this way and (I think) therefore she thinks he's not an average social kid and so it's expected that he doesn't do drugs in the first place. She thinks that if Clare's son was social, he would do drugs. I don't think she's saying anything about being picked on to describe how nerdy someone is or saying that to be "cool" you have to do drugs, disobey your parents, don't try hard.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Dammit, took too long to edit my double past. Oh well, maybe repetition will help reinforce something, heh?
Times2, Wild is seeing a nerd as someone who isn't very social and is unlikely to do drugs. For some reason, she thinks Clare's son is mostly this way and (I think) therefore she thinks he's not an average social kid and so it's expected that he doesn't do drugs in the first place. She thinks that if Clare's son was social, he would do drugs. I don't think she's saying anything about being picked on to describe how nerdy someone is or saying that to be "cool" you have to do drugs, disobey your parents, don't try hard in school or that kids should do drugs. Did I get it right, Wild? I suppose it's good that you brought that up, Times2, so we can make it clear what she's trying to say exactly.
I'm really surprised though that this isn't turning into a 'is drug use good or bad?' discussion. It's the whole basis for this current tangent scuffle and it's what is really setting us apart from the original question with questions like 'what would cause kids to experiment with drugs?' and 'do we need to be worried for other reasons except for the fact that they're breaking a law if our kids want to do drugs?' and 'are drugs serious enough to make a law against it?' If we continue, I'd like to see us get into these ideas since they are the actual core issues to the question and what we all seem to be basing our reasoning on for it. ************************************************** 09-24-04, 05:44 PM MommyTimesTwo What I'm getting from all this pretty much verifies what I said before: your kids will grow up to be exactly what you expect them to be.
Wild seems to be working under the impression (and please correct me if I am wrong) that "cool" kids do drugs, don't do homework, hang out all the time, and aren't involved with thier parents.
Nerds, by her definition, do their homework, are close to thier parents, are unsociable, are fat, and sit on the computer all day. Oh, and go to Church.
So it is not surprizing at all that growing up with a parent who defines being cool this way, and makes certain that it is known that she looks down on "nerds", that her son grew up to be exactly what she defines as cool.
From her posts, I can extrapolate that Wild does not really see anything wrong with pot (she posted that it is non-addicted etc...), and disregards that it is illegal. I am also not surprised that her son has had legal problems, as he was raised by someone who beleives you can circumvent the law if you don't see the law as having a purpose. Saying "Don't do drugs" while also saying "but pot isn't addictive, I don't see a problem with it" is not the same as raising a child with the understanding that drugs are wrong. It is giving the pat answer while sending the message that they can do whatever they want.
To answer the title question: Do parents really expect their teens never to experiment with drugs? Yes. And those parents who truely hold this expectation will be rewarded by teens who don't do drugs.
09-24-04, 11:45 PM Wildflower63 Geez! I said that I was sorry for calling Clair's son a nerd. You guys gotta give me credit for one thing, keeping things interesting! lol!
For the record, I am a card carrying NRA member because of political beliefs only. I have no clue how to use a gun. Because I think that weed should be legal, does not mean I think it's a brilliant idea to be a pot head. I could get on a soap box and tell you why I think so with both subjects, guns and weed. I'll spare you guys this one!
MX2's assumption of my interpretation of a cool or socially popular kid is in the ball park. Most of them are complete brats, in some form, to an adult mentality. For example, there is this extremely popular boy at my daughter's school. He very well may do his homework and not smoke weed, but he is a liar. I have heard a few too many of his stories. We are talking 13 year olds here. They believe him. Every girl in the school adores this guy. It's sickening!
What's wrong with being a nerd? Nothing at all! My life would be so much easier if my son was a complete and total nerd. Instead, he and his zillions of friends got me evicted from my apartment. I don't know how cool he is. I do know that the kid is extremely socially popular and loves every minute of it. He has put me through hell.
I don't like to see kids socially isolating during teen years. I don't think this is healthy. This is where I misunderstood Clair's initial description of her son and used the word nerd. I shouldn't have done that. It was an impression that I got and said it. Oh well, we all love to hate someone. It may as well be me!!
Maybe my use of words isn't communicating my topic question well. The way I see it, if every parent did not have some thought of the possibility of their children turning into teens and using drugs, why are we supporting programs to inform young kids. Our hopes are, with programs like DARE, that by bringing drug abuse issues into the schools along with parental guidance, our kids will not try or maybe try, but not be a habitual drug user. There are very compelling reasons why they shouldn't, but kids don't necessarily grasp this, as an adult does.
If the majority of teens never tried drugs at all, why are we so concerned about this issue at all? MX2, you are wrong about why my son uses drugs, but says he stopped now and his father believes him. Again, I have a very socially adept kid that gets away with murder because of use of social skills.
I did tell my kids, when asked, why people used drugs or drink at all. It's fun. It makes people feel good. People like feeling better than good. This was not the intended human condition without extremely negative consequences. Kids are confused by parental and school teaching about drug use. They are young and have not gotten to the age where they may be tempted socially, to fit in, as all kids want.
Both of my kids asked me why they had to go to boring drug abuse classes. If it so bad, why are they making us waste our time? I gave them an honest answer, only when asked. Should I have lied to them? Partying your ass off, when young and not much to lose is grand fun. You will pay for it, with legal, health, and complacency issues. You destroy your life, if you choose this road.
I am an RN. I have dealt with many addicts. You wouldn't believe how many people that never stopped drug and alcohol use, which started in teen years.
Check out the CT! There is brain atrophy in a person roughly 40 years old, to the extent of a person of 80 years. I couldn't tell you how many times I have seen CT scans come up with the same result, for people who didn't know when to quit. This brain damage is not reversible. My kids have been told this over and over.
Next, I worked at a PT rehab hospital. How many people have I seen, of college age, that didn't know when to quit. They all found some way to have any type of accident, from falls to car wrecks, that smash their head. You should check them out. They wear diapers and can't tell you their name. They are forever insane, because of permanent brain damage caused from abuse of drugs and alcohol. They live the rest of their lives in a nursing home, the ones that will take people with such behavior issues of permanent brain damage. Don't think that my kids were not endlessly lectured about this, also.
I should never have used the word 'expect' with my topic question. I don't know what other word to substitute it with. Fear may be a better word. It is to the heart of the matter.
Another parent question! Do you 'expect' (substitute this word with anything that fits the question) your 16 year old, with a new drivers license, not to damage, in any way, the car you allow them full use of? Think about it, for a minute. This is along the exact same line of thought that my weed question was.
I will tell you what I expect to happen. We are talking about a teenager, who will probably pile the car with friends, have the stereo blasting, and not pay full attention to the road. I guess that I can honestly say that I expect some sort of fender bender out of inexperience. I do not expect them to total the car, since I taught the kid to drive. If they followed the rules, there is no excuse at all for this.
I can also say that I expect most teens to at least try weed. I don't expect them to be a pothead. Does anyone see what I am really asking?
09-25-04, 12:56 AM MommyTimesTwo Wild
Why do you equate "nerd" with socially inept?? I am probably the world's most nerdy nerd, and I have never lacked for friends in my life. I make friends very easily, and being a nerd does not disrupt that.
As for the question about the car, no I would not expect someone who has little experience doing something to never make a mistake. However, I would expect them to be responsible, careful, and safe.
The difference between this and doing drugs is that doing drugs is 100% preventable. You have to make a conscience decision to seek them out and take them. Cracking up a car, well you never know if someone else is going to hit you, or if you will hit ice. Drugs do not come out of no where and OOPS how did this get in my mouth??
09-25-04, 12:28 PM jusork "The way I see it, if every parent did not have some thought of the possibility of their children turning into teens and using drugs, why are we supporting programs to inform young kids. Our hopes are, with programs like DARE, that by bringing drug abuse issues into the schools along with parental guidance, our kids will not try or maybe try, but not be a habitual drug user. There are very compelling reasons why they shouldn't, but kids don't necessarily grasp this, as an adult does."
Without these classes, kids wouldn't have any reasons to stay away from drugs (except the law). Teaching the classes is intended to inform kids in the hopes that they will be a lot less likely to want to do it. These are the classes that parents hope will teach their kids. Before the class, I'm sure plenty of parents think their kid has a potential to try drugs. But they hope this class would take away that potential. And the explainations that I had saying why drugs are problematic were pretty explainatory as to why and what exactly the effects could be. It'd be hard not to grasp.
"Kids are confused by parental and school teaching about drug use."
I don't think kids are confused. They just ignore the reasons because those reasons aren't so incredibly important as teachers and parents make them to be (although I'd say the legal reason is pretty important in itself). I totally agree with your kids' reasons for doing drugs though.
Your kids' question about why they have to go to drug class is weird though. I'm not sure whether your kids learn about drugs in school or in some extra program that's not with the regular curriculum. If it's in school, it's not like it's different than any other class. They probably said it because since they already do drugs, the class could certainly be seen as boring. They've already experienced it and are fine with it's effects. "If it so bad, why are they making us waste our time?" makes no since at all though. Confused
"not to damage, in any way, the car you allow them full use of? Think about it, for a minute. This is along the exact same line of thought that my weed question was........I will tell you what I expect to happen. We are talking about a teenager, who will probably pile the car with friends, have the stereo blasting, and not pay full attention to the road."
Trick question! Any kid who doesn't keep his eyes on the road will most certainly crash. Obviously, most kids keep their eyes on the road way more than not. Anybody can accidentally look away for a few seconds and miss something, or stop to late, whatever. Parents just have to hope that they taught their kid to be a consistent defensive driver. Parents believe that their kid agrees with and understands to be as cautious as possible to make sure it never happens just like their parent explains (and accidents happen when they let the caution slack). The answer's the same with drugs.
"I can also say that I expect most teens to at least try weed."
I'd expect a lot of kids to try weed once at the minimum. But most is an overstatement because there are plenty of kids of all types who don't try it at all. It's just not that important to most kids.
09-25-04, 12:41 PM MommyTimesTwo
quote: Our hopes are, with programs like DARE, that by bringing drug abuse issues into the schools along with parental guidance, our kids will not try or maybe try, but not be a habitual drug user. There are very compelling reasons why they shouldn't, but kids don't necessarily grasp this, as an adult
Of course they don't! They're kids. They don't think "well, if I get arrested now, it will stay on my record and affect me for the rest of my life."
That's why parents need to give kids consequences now for such things. Like, "If you do drugs I won't be able to trust you anymore, and I'll have to remove your privaledges." A teenager is much more concerned with using the phone and computer and going out with their friends than they are about a possible criminal record affect their career 20 years down the road.
09-25-04, 05:23 PM Wildflower63 nerd Pronunciation: 'n&rd Function: noun Etymology: perhaps from nerd, a creature in the children's book If I Ran the Zoo (1950) by Dr. Seuss (Theodor Geisel) : an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits
That's why I associate the word nerd to being socially inept. That is also why I used this word to describe a kid who spends a lot of time on a computer. The word describes several different reasons as to why I used the word nerd.
Exactly how mean and horrible am I using this word to describe: "My son plays the guitar, goes to see movies, goes to concerts, he works a part time job, hangs out at the mall, hangs out at friends houses and goes to carnivals and festivals. He plays board games, video games and spends all other waking moments on the computer."
Dissect the word nerd and the definition and compare to this. Nerd, by definition, is very versatile in meaning. For clarification as to why I used this word, by correct definition as to the meaning.
Plays guitar - Given that teens love their music, this would be a stylish activity. 1 point, cool kid.
Goes to see movies - For teens, this is not seen as stylish or unstylish. 0 points for average kid, not cool and not nerd. Works a part time job - Cool kid, average teens, and nerds get part time jobs. 0 points, average teen.
Hangs out at the mall - Girls always want clothes, jewelry, make up, in that order. Teen girls are extremely expensive to own. Most teen girls want to hit you up for cash and drag a friend to find what they want for the purpose of buying. Boys will only hang out at the mall because they know this is where they can find girls. Even teen boys hate shopping, but girls love to spend cash on things they want at the mall. They aren't stupid. They know the only reason the boys are at the mall is to check them out and they love the attention. 0 Points, average kid. This one gets iffy. If we are talking Mall Rat, that definitely hits on unstylish. -1 nerd. Given a margin of doubt, -0.5.
Goes to carnivals and festivals - All teens like to go to carnivals and festivals. Not stylish or unstylish. 0 points, average teen.
Hangs out at friends houses - One thing I have to say about that, you may be lucky your teen is hanging out at anyone's house besides yours. It depends on your level of tolerance. If you like kids, let them hang out at your place. If you can't deal with their obnoxious music, being loud, making a mass raid on your refrigerator, hogging the TV, at a loud volume, with those annoying video games or some idiotic move that they aren't even watching, but will have a fit if you turn off the TV, be trilled that your kid is hanging out at someone else's house. Personally, I don't like teens hanging out at someone else's house all the time and not mine. If your teen does not feel comfortable having friends at your house, there is a reason. I am assuming supervision of teens, which I believe is necessary. I strongly object to teens having sex and using drugs. It's not going to happen, if I am home. Personally, I like kids, even rotten teenagers. I am tolerant of their annoying habits, to a large degree. I will go in and out of the room. I want to hang out with them and know the people my kids associate with. I want the kids to feel comfortable with me. They already know anything doesn't go, with me or I throw them out. I even tell them to get their feet off my furniture. Do I sound like a parent that you would feel uncomfortable allowing your teen in my home? I have always had to limit the number of kids or the entire neighborhood would be hanging out at my house. Back to nerd vs. cool kid ranking. All teens do this. It's not stylish or unstylish, by definition. 0 points, average kid.
Plays board games - This is where the real ouch started. Well, the thinking Bible School was fun swayed me, but I am assuming he was not a teen, at the time. That doesn't count, since I am talking about a teen and interpreting, as I read activity. Teens would consider this both unstylish and socially inept, and may also fall into the intellectual or academic pursuits definition of nerd. That could be a three strike nerd, all in one singular activity. if a teen gets out Scrabble or Trivial pursuit and says to a group of teens, "Wanna play?" The only acceptable game would probably be Dungeons and Dragons and I'm not even sure if that is a board game. Most parents don't like this game at all and would have a fit if their kid had friends over playing that one. That game has a lousy reputation. Board games = social slaughter. -2.5, Nerd. Keep in mind, definition of nerd. Any one of the descriptions means nerd, by definition, and this word is versatile, in meaning.
Video games - All, with a few exceptions, usually girls more interested in how their hair looks, teens play video games. It's not stylish or unstylish. It definitely has no intellectual or academic merit. 0 points, average teen.
All other waking moments on the computer - This is the one that really shoved the word nerd into my head. Note computer nerd was specific, by definition of nerd. -1, nerd.
Lets do the math. 1 point = cool kid. 0 Points = average kid. -1 = nerd.
Plays guitar 1 point Goes to the movies 0 points Hangs out at the mall -0.5 points Goes to carnivals and festivals 0 points Hangs out at friends houses 0 points Plays board games -2.5
I come up with -2. That does hit on the nerd scale. It could be worse. That isn't a bad score, but it does hit on the nerd end. I couldn't give playing a guitar more than one cool kid point. I could, if he were in a kid band. Teens don't really care if you play a guitar or not, but it is a positive, if one can.
I am only interpreting what I am reading and finding meaning. What is wrong with being a nerd? Nothing at all, as long as you are happy. I think the singular part of the definition, socially inept, is the part that people are assuming I am being insulting.
Was I really that insulting? I am really getting mixed reactions to my use of the word nerd. Everyone thinks I am such a bitch for saying it, finding it insulting. Then they want to know what's wrong with being a nerd, at the same time. Nothing! I think that I already said that. I only apologized because I obviously offended Clair. That was not my intent.
MX2, why are you saying that you are a nerd? You are not a teenager. I don't really see much of anything that would put you at solid nerd status, by an adult standard, not a teen one.
09-25-04, 07:13 PM MommyTimesTwo Wild
I think you're missing my point.
Why are you classifying any children, let alone Clare's son, by any standards? It seems like you made assumptions based on some sort of classification system as to what her son is like. Now you proceed to award "cool points".
My meaning in calling myself a nerd is that I do not do things to be "cool". I do not seek out activities that are considered "cool", and have no desire to be "cool". I desire to be myself. From what she said, I can see that Clare's son also does.
But by your classification point system, you seem to ignore that he does what he does because he wants to, and because he is an individual seeking his independence through character building activities, rather than being slavishly devoted to appearances and being "cool".
I find nothing more repulsive in a person than the desire to appear "cool" being put above being themselves. And that includes smoking weed because "all the other kids do".
09-25-04, 07:15 PM Beth000376 Hey I would be so happy to hear my son is a nerd! After all what kids define as the "cool kids" are almost always the kids that will end up in jail before their twenty never hold down a job and their favorite past time will be smoking pot in their mommy's basement twenty years later. Yeah give me the nerds please. Oh and one more thing I did the goth thing for a number of years and never tryed pot or any other kind of drug... I guess I was just to smart.
09-26-04, 01:43 PM jusork Wild, since we are talking about likliness of smoking, a lot of those activities are also just as much of a description of kids who do drugs. Unstylish and uncool has nothing to do with being drug free at all. Like I said, drug use isn't limited to one group of kids. Any kid who knows how to get drugs has the potential to do drugs. (And similarly, non-drug use occurs in every type of teen.) You and your friends could only play chess and see each other at school and still get high every day. Non-popular kids get high. Kids who get on the computer a lot also have friends and get high. (P.S...um, guys do go to the mall just to actually buy stuff. Also,....um, there I know girls who don't go to the mall just for fashion.) I've known druggies who read books as one of their activities. You really don't have to go to tons of parties to do drugs. And a lot of people who go to parties probably don't do drugs.
Times2, I don't think Wild is saying that any of these kids in her examples are *trying* to be something "cool" or that they think smoking weed is "cool." She's just saying that they are social.
It seems a lot of people are posting saying popular kids are more likely to do drugs. Actually, I find that unpopular, individualist kids are more likely to do drugs.
09-26-04, 03:16 PM MommyTimesTwo Jusork
I am objecting to her classifying teenagers in general. Nothing will force a child to abandon their authentic selves faster than a parent being judgemental about who is a "nerd" and who is not.
And what the heck is wrong with not being a social butterfly?? Some people like reading better than mindless, inane chit-chat. Heavens forbid. Roll Eyes
09-26-04, 09:52 PM clarebear Sister can you paradigm?
Sometimes on a message board you have to decide if the debate in the thread is really worth it. I have found that if you continue to let someone express their nonsensical ideas and values that the majority of rational people will be shaking their heads on the other side of the computer knowing full well that the poster is just hopeless. This is one of those cases.
09-26-04, 10:23 PM MommyTimesTwo I'm just concerned that one of our resident teenagers might take some of her ranting as an excuse to go try pot. Why not? There's nothing wrong with it, and it will make you cool. Roll Eyes
09-26-04, 11:45 PM Wildflower63 It's the way I think MX2. I classify anything and everything to make sense of any information for evaluation. I take very little, at face value. I put together several facts and make a call on it. It usually works pretty well for me. I was using that as a means of describing why, from initial description, I used to word nerd. I broke down activities to get a mental picture of what this kid is like.
Because I felt that members were offended by my use of the word nerd, is why I posted the definition and exactly why I used it. The number quiz, I just made that one up. I should take up writing for women's magazines with this idea? Are you a nerd? Take this quiz! Hmmmm. New profession?
I apparently didn't use the correct words, or maybe I did, but am speaking to a select audience that is answering no, contradicting the reasoning behind why we allow DARE programs in our public schools and teach grade school kids not to use drugs. Am I the only parent that had drug lectures on the list of stupid things teens might do?
I did this because I 'expected' that my kids would probably be presented with the opportunity to smoke weed, with their peer group, at some point in time, with repetition. They don't get it. They think I am having moments of insanity.
No wonder! They are not teens yet. I 'expect' the choice to smoke weed or not, to be presented to my children, at some point in time. I believe that we live in a weed saturated society. I do not think it is difficult to obtain weed at all. I believe that teens will be presented with smoking weed more than one time. I expect they turn it down the first time.
How many times to they have to be presented with this situation before curiosity sets in and they really do try it? This is what I oversimplified using the word 'expect', with topic question. It is more complex than that.
I want to know what parents think, is all. Maybe I did not phrase the topic question well. Maybe I am talking to a select audience that will answer the same, not a sample of parents from different socio-economic groups and race, to get an adequate answer. I believe this is true, given that I believe the majority of members are white and of a middle class income level, at AP.
All that I am hearing is that I am such a bitch for calling Clair's son a nerd, which I would love for my son to be everything except the part of definition, socially inept. I wish my son was using his head for a good purpose than killing it with drugs. There is a singular definition, which is a versatile word, that is somewhat insulting, socially inept.
My brain actually does work, believe it or not. Given the objection of my use of the word 'nerd', with definition, is a compliment!! What didn't print the term 'computer nerd' because it used those sideways Vs and was deleted when posted. It was on there originally.
I don't really know who said it first, me or another member. The cool kids, as teens, are usually a bunch of miserable brats, from an adult view. I agree with that!
I don't recall ranking smoking weed as any points on the cool scale at all. I would give it a zero. The teens that smoke it think it is way cool. The teens that don't think smoking weed is for idiots. -1 + 1 = 0, so it doesn't count.
My son happens to be both socially popular, to the point that having his friends in the house is like running a frat house keg party, without the keg! He also happens to be a drug user, which I would like to rip his stupid head off over. That's exactly why he lives with Dad, who couldn't have cared less about these kids for too many years.
What to I have to do Claire, get down on my hands and knees and beg for your forgiveness for calling your son a nerd, from your initial description? I already said I was sorry for saying that. I said that I did not mean to offend. Read the definition of the word!!
Life would be fantastic, for me, if my son was a nerd. At least I would have him! I love and miss him so much, it is hard for me to even see him. I want him back. I love him. I can't hold a job, with his idea of fun. I can't keep an apartment either.
I stand by the fact that any parent that does not have a teen that tries or uses drugs is, flat out, lucky. I taught both of my kids, a long time ago, not to do this and why. So far, both made different choices. Same exact parents, but very different types of kids. That isn't to say that they both are not difficult, in their own ways.
I don't have to like it, but I 'expect' teens to at least try weed one time. I wish my kids were nerds! Claire, please either get up to the plate or quit playing victim because I called your kid a nerd. Quit letting members fight your battle. Do it yourself, if you find me so insignificant and stupid. You should easily be able to deal with me, right?
I did apologize to you. I even broke it down, word for word, why I thought of the word 'nerd' and used it, describing your son. You posted again, adding cool points, Goth and all that. Whatever! You better hope your son is not smoking weed. He may be and you don't have a clue. I didn't, for a long time.
You obviously can't accept my apology, from you last post. If you have something to say, then say it! Don't make members do it for you.
09-27-04, 12:01 AM MommyTimesTwo
quote:I take very little, at face value.
I would venture to say that you do quite the opposite of this assertion. It seems to me that you classify things and then use your classification system as a way to only see the face value.09-27-04, 05:24 AM shelster
quote: Sometimes on a message board you have to decide if the debate in the thread is really worth it. I have found that if you continue to let someone express their nonsensical ideas and values that the majority of rational people will be shaking their heads on the other side of the computer knowing full well that the poster is just hopeless. This is one of those cases.
Yup, you hit the nail on the head Clare.
09-27-04, 06:30 PM jusork She's just using the term nerd to describe people who aren't party-hearty/social, and that people who aren't party-hearty/social aren't likely to get into drugs. And I guess what she considers unsocial is pretty much clarified in her point thingy. She's not trying to make two groups so much as she's just saying unsocial kids wouldn't likely do drugs.
Wild, whatever word you use, you're skewing your descriptions. How are social activities like going to the mall and friends houses still able to make someone an unsocial person? I think you made a mistake when you tried to cancel out activities. You can just go to school, and have a fun time hanging out with your friends in classes and in between classes, and then go home and still be social. Also, how are the activities you consider not social less likely to involve drugs? You're just showing if a kid has potential to do drugs, right? Obviously, her son is social.
Whatever the description though, you still don't realize that the way you're seeing them isn't true. You don't realize that unsocial kids are just as likely to do drugs. Like I said before, ALL types of kids do drugs and All types don't do drugs. I've met typical urban kids who didn't do drugs. I've met unsocial kids who did do drugs. My brother's salutatorian of his high school class (something I'd assume would put him more in unsocial) yet had been smoking pot some that year and possibly the year before. What you're trying to do is figure whether a kid is an overall typical, normal kid or not, but you aren't really doing that.
We still need to figure out what each of us are trying to ask.
I think these questions for everybody should work:
Do you think pretty much all kids are just as likely to come in contact with drugs as any other kid?
Wild and anyone who agrees with Wild that most kids will come into an opportunity to try drugs and eventually will try it: Do you find it hard to believe that about half of all teens will never want to try drugs because they have no thoughts of wanting to try it or being curious about giving it a try? Do you find it hard to believe that there are groups of very social kids who will never come across drugs?
09-27-04, 06:55 PM MommyTimesTwo I don't beleive there are any teenagers in typical public schools who are never exposed to drugs in any form. The question is, do they act on that exposure by trying drugs or not?
My school was a typical suburban public school with kids from all economic levels and backgrounds. There was pot smoking in the bathroom. Couldn't have avoided it if I tried--dang it, sometimes you have to pee no matter what's in the bathroom! Wink But I did not accidentally try drugs. I did not try drugs because my friends did drugs nor because there was pot smoke in the bathroom. I tried drugs because I consciencely made the choice to do drugs and seeked out an opportunity to do them.
It has also been my experience (and this is not a stereotype, but just my experience) that the less social kids were more likely to be doing drugs than the more popular/social kids. Why? I don't know. Perhaps they were unsocial because they were always high.
As I said before, the majority of the kids I did drugs with lived on the streets. They did not even attend school, let alone hang out at the mall or things like that. They were antisocial to the point of being borderline hermits (their survival depended upon not being prey). They got with other kids to purchase their drugs, and do their drugs, and then leave.
09-27-04, 09:14 PM jusork I'd actually disgree with your answer to my question, Times2.
I'd say there are many kids of all kinds who will never come in contact with drugs.
09-27-04, 09:25 PM MommyTimesTwo You are free to disagree all you want J Smile My experience is the only experience I have, and it's the only experience I can speak from.
09-27-04, 09:39 PM jusork Do parents really expect their teens never to experiment with drugs (45 Replies)
quote:Originally posted by MommyTimesTwo: You are free to disagree all you want J Smile
Yay. Smile
09-28-04, 10:25 PM Wildflower63 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sometimes on a message board you have to decide if the debate in the thread is really worth it. I have found that if you continue to let someone express their nonsensical ideas and values that the majority of rational people will be shaking their heads on the other side of the computer knowing full well that the poster is just hopeless. This is one of those cases. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sitting here shaking my head too. Some people really are hopeless. The strange part is that everyone thinks it's me. I can't say a word without someone twisting it one way or the other and getting offended. I'm giving up on you guys!! Enough really is enough...
09-29-04, 10:14 AM jusork Wild, I just think you could've made your point in a better way. Gone about thinking of a better way of determining who isn't as likely to smoke pot. That probably would've helped. No need to give up on us. I mean, I still don't see how a kid who does those activities described isn't social. And I already said drugs and lack of drugs know no social bounds.
09-29-04, 10:15 PM Wildflower63 Thanks Jusork! This topic got out of whack. Maybe I didn't phrase the question well to get the answers I was looking for. Only one person addressed the subject that I was trying to get at.
Either I am not phrasing well to get the intended message across or many members don't understand what I am asking. There is no right or wrong answer to the question I was trying to ask, just opinion.
I tried rephrasing every way I could and everyone wants to concentrate on my use of the word nerd, which I didn't even take seriously at all. If not that, then pick at something else I said, that is not the question I was getting at. I asked specifically about the DARE program and how parents felt, for example. No one answered that.
In my opinion, teen drug use is a concern to parents. I believe parents do feel their kid may try drugs or we wouldn't be teaching them early about the bad news. To rephrase again, how high is the risk factor, in your opinion? If you say, "Not my kid!", are you so sure?
09-29-04, 10:33 PM MommyTimesTwo
quote:I believe parents do feel their kid may try drugs or we wouldn't be teaching them early about the bad news.
Do you only tell the child who is already experimenting with sex not to get pregnant? Do you tell the child who has already started playing with matches that they could start a fire?
Further--do you wait until you can't breathe to see the doctor? Do you wait until you are 64 to start saving for retirement?
It's called prevention. It's how the child who won't try drugs got that way in the first place.
We are all equally at risk for all bad behaviours in the beginning, until we are taught differently. IF we are taught differently.
If you never know it is wrong, why would you avoid it?
09-29-04, 11:47 PM Wildflower63 Tank you MX2 for answering the exact question I asked! Finally, someone gets it.
To my initial point, parents are afraid their kid might smoke weed. We start early to avoid a disaster, which we 'expect' might happen, if out young children were never taught about drugs.
I agree! Everyone is at risk. It is ultimately up to our teen kids to decide, what you taught them or their own choice of curiosity. I don't trust teens enough to say this is a non-issue and one that we have to keep pushing our teens away from, after early teaching and a DARE program at school.
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