Elexina, I am sorry that your perfectly innocent thread is becoming yet another round of bickering.

wow, i was going to rebuttle, but not now.
i am staying out of this one.

Calm down all!

The question of pseudophedrine being addictive was asked. I understand, given that you now have to sign your name at the pharmacy counter, why someone might think this drug is a problem.

The correct answer to the question is no, pseudophedrine is not addictive at all and very useful to people with sinus/allergy problems. An ingredient was abused for a illegal and addictive drug.

This drug has been OTC for years. I believe anyone stating that pseudophedrine as addictive, in any way, has been misinformed. I agree, the other sinus medications don't help me either. That really is all your doc is trying to tell you.

Ron, you know the difference! Please share with members.....

quote:

Originally posted by SeattleRon:
yeah, when i used to do meth Elexina, after I quit
my withdrawal symptoms were....I'm not sure about pseudo ephredine plain for legit reasons, but mine was kept pretty under control, I've always been able to handle my drugs.

quote:

Originally posted by SeattleRon:
wow, i was going to rebuttle, but not now.
i am staying out of this one.

Ron, step up! You are talking withdrawal of a home cooked illegal drug called crystal meth. Yep, it's addictive!

What is your rebuttal? You abused a drug, which is illegal, home cooked and have the nerve to say nothing? People like you, home cooked junkies, are the reason so many people feel pseudophedrine is 'dangerous' or 'addictive'.

Ron, fess up! No one using this for real sinus/allergy problems has 'drug withdrawal'. Please tell members the truth of abuse of a home cooked high vs. the rest of us that really do have sinus/allergy problems.

We all know how to cook up meth. The recipe is blasted all over the net, just as the recipe for crack. Ron, you are talking withdrawal from meth, not people buying medication for sinus/allergy problems.

What was your rebuttal Ron? Let's hear it.

Wildflower, I think there is a distinct difference between drug withdrawal from crystal meth and the experiences people have when they stop taking other medications upon which they have become dependent. Your body becomes used to having a drug in its system, any drug, there is no reason why it won't react strangely if you take the drug, any drug, away. This can be an illegal substance, or something as simple as coffee.
My question was not whether the medication was addictive, my question was whether sudden stoppage of the medication could lead to any of the symptoms I was experiencing -or if I needed to see my doctor for something more serious.
I am no longer concerned about this. I have figured things out on my end. I really don't think we still need to be hashing this out.

I am loathe to defend SeattleRon, but I don't think he has any obligation to discuss his former drug use if he doesn't want to, considering this question was not about meth addiction.

I am sorry to have stirred up such a wasp's nest with my (I thought) simple question. Again, I apologize if I have misled anyone (anyone else, not myself, I know where I am) with the wording of any of my comments.

Elexina, it WAS a simple straightforward question, you misled no one, and you owe no apologies.

Lex asked: Does anyone know what some symptoms of pseudoephedrine withdrawal might be?

WF said she’d stopped taking pseudoephedrine with no side effects. WF said pseudoephedrine is not addictive. WF mentioned crystal meth in an aside.

SeattleRon, alerted by the mention of crystal meth, shared with us his own withdrawal experiences from crystal meth. He advised Lex to drink plenty of water. Not bad advice.

Lex reminded him that the symptoms she was curious about were not likely to be the same as those caused by crystal meth withdrawal.

MrsS gave a responsive answer, and Lex thanked her for it.

It was at this point that the thread began to go seriously sideways.

Wildflower continues to complain about crystal meth abusers. Then she makes a totally off-the-wall comment:

quote:

You are mistaken. The addictive drug is crystal meth. Pseudophedrine is just one of the ingredients.

We’re not quite who she calls ‘mistaken’. So far not one person has said that Pseudophedrine is addictive; not even Ron.

Elexina apologizes for possibly misleading anyone, and repeats that she posted out of curiosity only.

Babs distinguished between dependence and addiction in a vague sort of way.

Wildflower wades in again:

quote:

The topic is 'Withdrawal', correct? I answered you question. What makes you feel 'misled'? I believe that I gave you a medically correct answer.

This is just bizarre. Not one person has claimed to have been misled.

Giz posts that Lex has not said she was misled.

Babs scolds WF for twice misreading someone’s clearly-worded post.

WF posts

quote:

I believe anyone stating that pseudophedrine as addictive, in any way, has been misinformed.

??? No one has posted that pseudophedrine is addictive.

Medicinenet.com defines withdrawal symptoms as: Abnormal physical or psychological features that follow the abrupt discontinuation of a drug that has the capability of producing physical dependence. Common withdrawal symptoms include sweating, tremor, vomiting, anxiety, insomnia, and muscle pain.

Medicine.net.com defines addiction as: A chronic relapsing condition characterized by compulsive drug-seeking and abuse and by long-lasting chemical changes in the brain. Addiction is the same irrespective of whether the drug is alcohol, amphetamines, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, or nicotine. Every addictive substance induces pleasant states or relieves distress. Continued use of the addictive substance induces adaptive changes in the brain that lead to tolerance, physical dependence, uncontrollable craving and, all too often, relapse. Dependence is at such a point that stopping is very difficult and causes severe physical and mental reactions from withdrawal

It is very clear from Elexina’s post, Ron’s post, in fact everyone’s posts but Wildflower’s posts, that no one is confused and thinks that anyone was saying that pseudoephedrine is addictive.

Still, Wallflower pleads with Ron:

“Ron, you know the difference! Please share with members.....”

But Ron has already said he’s gonna duck this thread. Smart guy!

Then out of the blue Wallflower demands that Ron enter with her into some parody of an encounter group, I guess. Wisely, Ron opts out.

Wildflower speaks of her experience thus:

quote:

I say and do all the right things to my patients and their family. I say all the wrong things here. Members would live in fear, if they happened to land in one of my beds, where I am in charge, as their nurse. You really would be lucky to get me, as your nurse, but who would really believe that, with my posts?

Here.

All I know is that given Wildflower's inability to understand a few simple English sentences in this thread, I would hate to have her ‘interpret’ and administer to me a doctor’s prescription for any drug I would need to take!

Do I ever get a break?

I answered the topic question honestly! I have had sinus/allergy problems since a kid. I have tried other non-pseudophedrine medications. They don't work for us with real sinus/allergy problems!

I apologize if my answer disturbed any member. This is a topic of my interest. Actifed has worked for me since it was a script drug, as a kid. It is reformulated and doesn't work at all, for me.

Addictive? No way. But these non-pseudophedrine drugs just don't work and your same sinus/allergy problems are back. That is all I intended to say.

Hint! Walgreens still sells the original Actifed under Wal-Act. This is the only place that I found does continue this drug only intended to help people with sinus/allergy problems.

By the way, Ron is a good guy. He is honest. I'm not afraid of siding with Ron!

"Siding" with Ron? Is that what the following means?

quote:

What is your rebuttal? You abused a drug, which is illegal, home cooked and have the nerve to say nothing? People like you, home cooked junkies, are the reason so many people feel pseudophedrine is 'dangerous' or 'addictive'.

Who said that pseudophedrine is dangerous or addictive? Quote a post please. From this thread or any sensible source.

quote:

Originally posted by babthrower:
Who said that pseudophedrine is dangerous or addictive?[/b] Quote a post please. From this thread or any sensible source.

Are you talking to me? I never said pseudophedrine was dangerous or addictive.

Who stated this, Bab? I didn't!

Keep it up, Wildflower. You've got everyone fooled. Not.

You said

quote:

I got used to people attacking me, doctors, family, you name it.

(From the same site I quoted above.)

You're the only little petunia in the onion patch, aren't you? A toxic little petunia.

And I haven't even begun quoting some more of your posts from other sites. Quite revealing, they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildflower63: Hint! Walgreens still sells the original Actifed under Wal-Act. This is the only place that I found does continue this drug only intended to help people with sinus/allergy problems.

Wildflower, my pseudoephedrine drug of choice is Drixoral, which has always worked wonders for me. You can still find it at Eckerd and Walgreens, I believe, and sometimes at Wal-mart. You have to sign for it, though. And you can buy it online from places like drugstore.com. It's a lot cheaper than Claratin and sometimes there are coupons.

As for the direction this post has taken, I don't even know what to say. No wonder pseudoephedrine is such a testy issue!!

It wasn't me that made pseudophedrine such an issue! Our government did over people cooking crystal meth, highly addictive, that we can't get our needed sinus/allergy medications. Soon, we will need a script for it! How sad....

quote:

Originally posted by Wildflower63:
It wasn't me that made pseudophedrine such an issue! Our government did over people cooking crystal meth, highly addictive, that we can't get our needed sinus/allergy medications. Soon, we will need a script for it! How sad....

FYI pseudophedrine is highly addictive too, if you take more than the alloted dosage you can get a nice buzz - and there are kids that do/did abuse that substance as well.

Actually they need to put it back on the shelves and legalize meth, regulate it, tax it and pretty much treat it like alcohol.

Along with (but by no means limited to) Opium, Cocaine, Marijuana, acid, LSD, etc.

Legalize it to take the wonder and awe of the drugs away from the drugs - fewer people will try it to see if they like it if its readily aviable.
Regulate it by not only keeping tabs on who buys it (to prepare a nice bunk at the nearest rehab) but also to have a mandated quality control and to take the lab work off the street and put it in a nice factory where proper controls of manufacture and waste disposal are in place.

Tax it to use the taxed dollars to create safety nets like rehabs, out patient programs and the like to treat the addiction.

Well said, Dvd, and well worth a new thread. Why don't you start one? In the process of trying to protect addictive personalities from themselves (ourselves?) we have
- interfered with access to drugs by people who legitimately need them
- created a massive police bureaucracy and given them scary powers
- created a very, very wealthy and powerful drug underworld
- turned life in the poorer sections of the cities into third world ghettos, where people are killed every day in drive-bys and turf wars, and the victims' families are afraid to talk to police
- created a hothouse to promote and protect the growth of corruption in the legal system: judges taking bribes, evidence "lost", etc.

And has it stopped drug abuse?

Sad as addiction may be, it is not something that prohibition can prevent -- or even help much.

all i was going to say is all drugs, legal or not carry addictive properties. though withdrawal symptoms maybe difrent, the end results are the same, either staying on the wagon, or losing your life to addiction.
NO big deal. So relax Wildflower

DvdGStwrt, once again right on the money man!
Take the mystery out of the drug, and it all goes away. the more you say no you can't do it, the more people will do it to rebel.


You can get high off anything, I'm ashamed to admit, but a long time ago when I was a teenager I did do the whole Coricidin thing, you know, DXM. I did it twice just to experience it.
I took all 16 tabs, and got high as hell, and that stuff is over the counter.
Never did it again, I thought it was loser stuff. I was 14, and thought, if i want to get high i'll just buy pot, instead of overdosing on cough medicine.
People experiment, but there are consequences to it, be horrified if the result is death, be greatful if it's withdrawals....
You'll Live.

What? You are saying people 'addicted' to pseudophedrine are abusing a allergy/sinus drug that is sold OTC? Maybe that's why I didn't have anything but a sinus problem when doing without Actifed.

No, what is being pointed out is that:
A} ANY drug has the potential for misuse, whether it is prescription, OTC or even an herbal remedy made fresh from an organic garden.

And

B} A person can experience unpleasant/uncomfortable sypmtoms when abruptly discontinuing almost anything to which they are habituated... Sinus meds, sugar, coffee, chocolate, meat, even chap stick, for cryin' out loud.

This thread was NOT about "drug addiction" until you made it about drug addiction.

Elexina wanted to know if there were symptoms associated with ceasing use of a commonplace non prescription medication.
There ARE commonly such symptoms.
No one but you thinks the issue was drug abuse, on any level or from any angle.

nah, yo...people or anybody who uses too much of anything is an abuser.
you could drink too much pepsi and be an abuser. Do too much of anything and thats what you are...

You're right, Ron, anything can be abused, but there does not need to have been abuse for there to be symptoms from abruptly stopping something... that can, and does, happen even when the use was completely appropriate and not at all questionable.