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Platinum
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Picture of Wildflower63
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I have an old house with huge windows. I'm already having a heart attack over the heating bills. It is just my teen daughter and myself living here. It seems such a waste to heat this whole house for only two people, especially when I know what it will cost me.

Most of the houses, in my neighborhood, are older homes with gas fireplaces. At some point in time, they went out of favor. People either capped the gas lines or took them out completely, in favor of wood.

Luckily, I still have the gas line to the fireplace, but it is capped off. I have heard of gas fireplace inserts with a fan and gas logs that will put out a lot of heat into the house. They can be vented or ventless.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to the cost or where I can shop for one of these type of gas inserts? The ones I have seen are more for decorative purpose, not heating the house.

How much can I expect to spend and where do I start?
 
Posts: 3010 | Location: Northern Kentucky | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Here is a place to start.

This company is a former client of mine and they are well respected in the home improvement center business. Good luck.
 
Posts: 1799 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: 06-05-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Thanks Tee! At least I know that this does exist. My computer is having it's own version of fun and games with me. For some reason, I cannot download the info on that site you gave me.

Do you know of any large name chain stores that sell this? I also need information of installation and cost.

Thanks!!
 
Posts: 3010 | Location: Northern Kentucky | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Lowe's used to sell them. Not sure if they still do. I know that a local "pool and hearth" store here has their products. I don't remember exact prices, but the ventless ones are more expensive although the cost isn't all that high in either case. Try looking for a Comfort Glow dealer in your "yellow pages".

I just searched their site for dealers in my area. It appears that Sears, Home Depot, Ace Hardware and TSC are chains that carry their products. Oh yeah... The home office is in Bowling Green.
 
Posts: 1799 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: 06-05-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Thanks for pointing me the right dirrection! You know how it is in the big hardware stores. They hire kids that don't always know what you are asking about.

I don't know if this is correct information or not, but I am hearing somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 to buy one of these gas inserts. I would probably pay almost as much for installation!

Even so, I have gotten bills over $500 in one month, during the winter. This thing could easily pay for itself in one month around here! I am ready to start renting rooms. No kidding!

Thanks!!
 
Posts: 3010 | Location: Northern Kentucky | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of donaldekliros
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Wildflower63:

Forgive me if you want but I think you are looking at the wrong thing in wanting to reinstall your Gar Fireplace.

If your windows are hugh & old you will probably do yourself a favor & have them replaced with more modern windows with a built in Storm type window.

True, you will probably pay 4- or 5-thousand dollars to have them installed, however that will remedy your problem of high heating bills. You will still be able to pay these off in about six months if you heating bill has been running as high as you say.

Just restoring your gas fireplace will not do that. You will still have the high heating bills.

Don
 
Posts: 704 | Location: St. Louis Missouri, USA | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Hi Wildflower! I have mostly single paned windows, which I do intend on upgrading in the future. I have also decided to go with a fireplace, but mine will be propane.

Take a look HERE This is the company that we chose.
 
Posts: 5148 | Location: Not of this planet | Registered: 06-16-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Fuel is fuel, the more you burn the more money you will be throwing out the window(s). I would strongly recommend switching out the windows. You do not have to do them all today if you can't afford it, one by one as you can (Though that is more expensive in the long run).

A few temporary fixes to the heating issue:

1. Big house with two people in it, then select those rooms which are used less to shut off from the whole house heating. Such as closing the vent(s) to those rooms. Warm air will still get in there, but not as much thus the room will not freeze in the winter, but it will not be comfortable either. older houses had doors to all rooms - not just for privacy, but for the functionality of closing off parts of the house and concentrating the heating in a few rooms.

2. Insulate the windows: We have those louvered windows, you know the type narrow panes of glass that seal up as about as well as a sieve. In the winter I go through the house and on most of them I put up the same sort of vinyl plastic that is used in clear shower curtains. It is carried at fabric stores, comes in several thicknesses. It isn't too difficult to make a frame of 1/2 or 2/2 that will fit snuggly in the window sill. It will act like another pane of glass, giving a "dead air" space to help insulate from the extremes in temperature. It is about as effective as a "storm" window which usually does the same function. Not as efficient as double paned windows. That is my first line of protection, my next is....

3. The Victorians had heavy thick curtains made out of velvet and other wonderful plush fabrics. It wasn't just a style they were very functional as well. Victorian window dressing was to provide another layer of insulation over the most inefficient insulator - glass windows. If you look at pictures of old Victorian Homes you find that the drapes went from floor to ceiling and went all the way against the wall on either side. Most of the big bay windows and other big windows where built in a manner which allowed one to curtain off the whole area "sealing" the small room from the rest of the house. Try hanging heavier curtains, or in some rooms cover the existing curtains/drapes with a comforter or blanket. Works best at night when you are not using the daylight.

Gas fireplaces - ALL fireplaces - are not designed well for heating. Most of the heat goes up the flue/chimney (even with those inserts), most often the fire place has to run for a fairly long time to heat up the surrounding brick. Like for days at a time, then the heat from the brick radiates into the house.

Ben Franklin was a pretty smart fellow, he figured out a better way at using the heat of a fire more efficiently, he invented the "Franklin" wood burning stove which was a "fireplace" cast in iron but sat inside the room - you could watch the fire by opening up the front iron shutters, you could also cook on them, heat water, etc. The flue (a tube of metal) would stay inside the house radiating more heat on the way to vent the smoke.

Types of Fireplaces means they do different things:

A decorative fireplace usually has a wall facing outside. A fireplace for heating would be in the center of the house where the brick and masonry are radiating the heat into the house. Kitchen Fireplaces (when they still cooked with real fire) would be on an outside wall to radiate the cook fire heat in summer outside - Same principle for the brick insert for a wood burning cook stove, to move the heat from the kitchen to the exterior. Imagine the heat of the kitchen in August if we still cooked and heated water with a wood or coal fire.

In truth a gas fire place will not be used much. Think you are having a heart attack over efficient modern heating, wait until you get hit with a natural gas or propane bill when you use a gas fireplace for a month. I am willing to bet that you will use it for one month and figure that it was really a bad idea after all. That is why they went out of favor and wood came back the price of fuel wood is far cheaper than natural gas AND propane.

To blame the huge old windows may be erroneous, that is the obvious - the not so obvious is that older houses do NOT have wall Insulation if there is insulation the attic or crawl space above, it is most likely thin or if it is blown insulation has compressed over time.

Heat leaves the house in several ways:

1. Glass panes (number one on older houses).

2. Poor roof insulation (right up there near the panes of glass, in many older houses above windows).

3. Poor air seals: Around windows, doors, minor cracks and crevices, up through the flue/chimney, out vents,around outlets on exterior walls.

4. Through uninsulated walls (most common in older homes)

5. Through the floor. Being and older house I am willing to bet it is not on a slab (which are wicked horrors when it comes to heating and cooling and are not used in the north eastern states much) Most likely a nice crawl space or if you are really lucky a basement/cellar. Floor insulation will increase the over al efficiency of a house greatly.

This Article goes into more depth on this subject.

And This Site offers more of the same.

Personally I would assess my living situation. If you own the home and can't part with it (some people do believe in setting down roots and will plan on spending the rest of their life there) then you should start looking at a long term solution, which means getting in touch with energy efficient consulting professionals, start with your local power company/gas company. Have them come out assess the full situation and then work on a step by step methods of improving the energy consumption of the house. Many energy companies (electric, gas, etc) have incredible home owner rebates and incentive programs which will reduce the cost of improving your home.

A gas fireplace is not the best first step at a solution, if anything it will be a waste of time and money and will add to the fuel bill problems.

David
 
Posts: 4016 | Location: Leaving land, heading for the ocean | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Just so members do not misunderstand, I have read all replies and do understand your suggestions.

Problem #1: Huge and multiple windows. This house is a monster in size. I will spend more like 20k to replace these. I have a few rounded widows that look beautiful, but have to be custom made. That gets extremely expensive.

I have already gotten the figures, which are about 20k, on my house. I will never sell this place and get this figure back, so it is not worth it, given a divorce. If I spend the cash to replace these windows, I will be very lucky to get even half of the cash I paid out of window replacement. It does not increase property value all that much.

Problem #2: Thick drapes on the windows. Does anyone really know what this costs? I do! I cannot get away with less than 2k, for drapes, which have to be custom made, with this house. Yes, it really is that expensive. I was planning on making insulated drapes myself. The fabric needed alone cost a fortune. Add up many hours of my time on top of this cost. Nothing is cheap!

I have no idea how much longer I will own this house at all. What happens when I decided on fabric, which I insulate, and I buyer hates it?

Problem #3: Replace the coal convert 1928 boiler. I will not get one dime, of sale value by spending this cash. It is always deducted from sale value. I will not get one cent for increase in property value, if I replace this antique furnace, that works without flaw, with even heat, but extremely expensive to run.

Solution 1: Get a fireplace insert that will heat the downstairs. I can vent it. This will increase property valuation.

Any potential buyer is going to deduct the cost of replacing my antique furnace, by exact cost of today. At least I don't have to pay it! It will be an exact dollar subtraction, for real.

Windows never increase property value at all. All of my windows are double pained, no single glass. This is a large house, with large old windows. I have offered to buy my husband's share of this house, which he refused. Unless you plan on staying put for a while, windows do noting to substantially increase property value, especially when already double pained. They are a serious pain to clean, only.

I want my heat bill to go down drastically. We spend the majority of awake time on the fist floor. I will put a space heater in the bathroom. We all have either an electric blanket or mattress pad, so we don't freeze to death.

Yes, I do plan on turning off the fireplace when going to sleep. I expect to wake up freezing to death. I am trying to maximize every dollar spent on this house, just in case my husband disagrees, as he has, to selling the house to me, which I can afford. This place is a rehab, in the right location. I am the only one to do work on this house, not my husband.

Given that I have no clue what will happen to this house, I need a cut in utility bills and an increase in property value. Curtains don't cut it and neither does replacing windows, given that

I don't know how long I will live here. Keep in mind that this is a divorce situation leading nowhere at all. If I spend a dime, I want at least ten bucks for every dime I spend, as investment.

I am aware of other options and have looked into costs. I want something now that will save me a fortune in heat bills, while increasing property value, on my behalf. I am only interested in a fireplace insert to heat my first floor only.

Thanks for suggestions, but they don't fit with my needs of today.
 
Posts: 3010 | Location: Northern Kentucky | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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