Hi --

We had our bathroom done six months ago, and I can see some nails popping up below the vinyl flooring.

I want to find out from an objective third-party how serious a problem this is. I apparently didn't choose a very good remodeler, and now I don't trust them to fix this.

I would rather get someone else to fix it and try to get reimbursed -- in small claims court, if need be.

Most likely your remodeler did the right thing, pounded the nails in - Well relatively right.

Most likely he should have used screws, self counter sinking variety OR counter sank the nails in the floor. However sooner or later this may become an issue especially if the sub-floor was of new material OR if the sub-floor had been a bit damper when the remodel took place.

What about those nail heads? Well even though he may have hammered them in flush, due to contraction and expansion, walking on the floor and even the further drying of the wood (Takes years for wood to dry completely out) the nails get looser and work upward OR the wood shrinks, and the nails just don't move.

Where you live (Illinois) tends to have extremes in temperatures and high humidity, these will directly affect the wood sub-floor, causing it to swell and shrink. Wood moves a lot, lot more than nails. It could be that the nails have not moved at all, but that the sub-floor has shrank.

Since he used nails you could try (On a corner, say behind the toilet or behind the door) using a block of wood (say one by material 4 inches by four inches) Set that on the nail and use a hammer and whack away. This should push the nail down without scarring the flooring.

Now there is another take on this and that would be the flooring material, if it was cheaper stuff it would be thinner thus showing the natural flaws under it. Your remodeler is not responsible for that. The thicker stuff is basically padded, and has a bit of give to it than the cheaper stuff which is basically the thickness of poster board with a plastic coating.

IF the vinyl is the thinner stuff then no matter what he did with the sub-floor, the flaws would eventually show. The Thinner vinyl is used mostly on concrete slabs, thicker vinyl is used on wood/particle board/Oriented strand board (OSB) since those tend to have nails and in the case of the OSB has a texture.

David

I don't know whether or not it is peculiar to Maryland, but I'm surprised to hear of vinyl flooring material being installed directly on the sub-floor. In every such installation I have seen, the contractor has put an underlayment of lauan plywood with countersunk screws down first, followed by the vinyl sheets, tiles, etc. Of course, I would defer to David who certainly is more knowledgeable in this area.

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Originally posted by frankvan:
I don't know whether or not it is peculiar to Maryland, but I'm surprised to hear of vinyl flooring material being installed directly on the sub-floor. In every such installation I have seen, the contractor has put an underlayment of lauan plywood with countersunk screws down first, followed by the vinyl sheets, tiles, etc. Of course, I would defer to David who certainly is more knowledgeable in this area.

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Depends on the Subfloor. IF you have large sheets of plywood/OSB/Particle Board, luan would not do much to "level" that out. If you are in an older house which used planks then you would most definitely have to sheath the subfloor with luan which would provide a wider field of level surface. Individual planks would never be level, even T&G will over time develop raised areas at the edges which would show through any vinyl flooring.

My assumption was that the subfloor was a ply/BP/OSB material.

Different Locations have different codes when it comes to fasteners (screws, nails, staples). Personally I prefer screws, in a bathroom or kitchen I would go with Galvanized or Brass, something that would hold up in case water gets down there. I would never, ever use Particle Board ( I dislike that material) I would prefer an exterior grade Ply or OSB.

Actually, luan was used. I didn't remember that, until it was brought up. This is an older home. It looks like nails were definitely used instead of screws.

As far as the vinyl, I bought a remnant since it is a small bathroom. I guess I could check with the store to see about the thickness. If I have some left over, would it say anything on the back, or would I have to check with the store?

What is a good thickness to have?

Here is a PDF link which may answer that question better: http://extension.usu.edu/files/homipubs/hi03.pdf

Most flooring products will have some information written on the back of the product, many times the information is basic name of the pattern and name of the company. Some companies have special codes which mean "the Cheap Stuff" and "the really good high priced stuff" course they use those codes so they can sell the Cheap stuff at the really good high priced stuff prices Even the Names of the product are not really truthful "Durable" has many meanings.

There is a wide range of thicknesses and types. You could take it back to the same store you purchased it from, if it was me I would take it to another store and ask them what they think of the material. You tend to get a bit more honesty about the product if you ask someone other than the store who sells a thing.

Here is a thought, try a call to the local building inspector, ask them what the local code is about using nails over screws for this kind of application, explain to them what is going on and let them tell you if the guy did it to local code or not.

It may be county codes that you fall under. I think that it Madison county for Edwardsville (?????) Presently there is a push for one national set of building codes, however local areas still have a lot of control over what they do and do not allow. A Good example is here in California we do not need metal conduit for electrical wiring in the walls, In Eastern cities it is mandatory to use metal sheathed conduit. So the information I give you about flooring and subflooring is based on the local codes here.

For instance I could say it is mandatory for you to have your water heater strapped to the wall. It is here in California, but we are the state that rocks, shakes, rattles and rolls and this particular code is for earthquake safety.

Anyway, the question here is not if this floor was done right, but if it was done to local code. If nails are allowed in local code, then you may not have a leg to stand on.

Code also changes from year to year (Bothersome most of the time) and what is ok this year may not be ok next. This is one reason why there is a big push for a national standard to reduce the number of mistakes and errors that are made each year because conflicting building codes, such as between city and county.

David

Thanks for the info. I will call the building inspector's office, and look up the linke.

Becky