I have an old 1950's Trailer house with a bare (unpainted) metal roof. In the summer it costs a fortune to run the A/C and the swamp cooler doesn't do any good on the 100 degree days, which we have a lot of. If I don't run the A/C it will easily get to 130 degrees or more in there.
Next spring I'm planning on doing something about it. I want to find some kind of roof coating (white) that I can paint on. I think that will reflect the heat better than the bare metal.
Then I'm planning on ripping out the ceiling and putting in some better insulation. But I don't want to put in pink fiberglass insulation because I'd need at least a 3.5" clearance and I don't want to lower the ceiling because it is already only 7' high. So what I was thinking is that I'd buy those 1" x 8'x4' sheets of styrofoam that they sell at Home Depot and use that for insulation. I'd probably be putting the old ceiling panels back up because I don't think I'd be able to handle sheet rock by my self. Though, I think Sheet rock would add to the R value.
Do you think that it would help or is there a better solution? If standard insulation would be a significantly greater improvement than I guess I’d be willing to sacrifice ceiling height. ************************************************************ 12-25-05, 11:55 AM DorianGreyed Build a roof over it to shade it. Ventilate the trailer better; draw air from the northwest side in the mornings, and the northeast side in the evening. I doubt that insulation will help much. If the sun shining on the roof is causing the heat buildup (that and no ventilation are the only two things that could cause the inside temperature to go over the outside temperature), insulating the roof/ceiling will help slightly, but you will have increased heat gain through the walls. Painting the roof white will help, but not as much as shading and ventilation will help. Depending on your location and the codes you may have to follow, a cheap carport-type roof may be all that you need.
12-25-05, 12:58 PM RoverRoad DorianGreyed, My dad's company actually builds those shade roofs that you are talking about. (Pole buildings). Unfortunately, they aren't allowed in the community that I live in. Eagle is an upscale community and they want these trailers out of here. That's why I don't want to spend a lot of money on it unless I can break even with my gas bill. I think I will be here for a few more years anyway.
I've been planting trees to help with the shade, but obviously trees take time.
12-25-05, 01:25 PM DorianGreyed While I am no builder, I have read a great deal about insulation and heat gain. I don't think that retrofitting insulation in a trailer makes financial sense. I also don't think that you can put enough insulation in the ceiling to make a significant difference. I own a brick home, with all the interior walls brick as well. (Yes, it is difficult to hang a picture.) On really hot days, as soon as the sun goes down, I water the roof and outside walls. Some of the neighbors make jokes ("Building a second story?"), but the water I put on the roof and walls is about 65*F when it comes out of the hose, and when it finally hits the driveway, it is hot enough to shower in. That heat came from somewhere. The minimal amount I pay for water is nothing compared to what I would have to pay to run the AC. I also grew ivy up the southern exposure, and that helps a great deal in keeping the bricks cool. You could plant shrubbery close to the trailer and that will help to an extent.
12-25-05, 01:46 PM RoverRoad I guess there is probably a good reason why this trailer hasn't been modified on 50 years. I will try the water thing, All I'd have to do is turn the lawn sprinkler onto full blast. I don't pay for water. I didn't do that last year because I have those jailhouse type crank windows and the water was coming into the house and damaging the wall.
I'm no builder either. I only worked for my dad for one summer and then I quit on him to take a job in the computer room of a grocery chain. Building isn't really my thing and all I know is rough framing and concrete.
12-27-05, 04:13 PM DvdGStwrt We live in a 1959 trailer, it is 2x2 framed with aluminum sheet metal on the exterior. Its insulation is 2 inch yellow fiber glass – in every wall that I have opened thus far the fiber glass has settled. In the bedroom wall which I replaced 6 years ago the fiber glass had settled leaving the upper 2 feet bare of insulation. Moisture inside the wall collected on the aluminum got wicked up into the fiberglass and the weight caused the fiberglass to settle. There was also the leaky roof, and those damned louvered windows.
Here are a few things we did:
Sprayed foam insulation on the roof – we had 1 1/2 to 2 inches of foam sprayed over the whole roof, it was "shaped" to fill in the dips and gullies thus it ranges a bit between thicknesses.
It cost $3800.00 for the foam itself, they came out in a truck, put a custom made flashing around the edge, then sprayed and shaped it. Then I painted a white coating on the foam to prevent its degrading in the UV.
That first winter the furnace ran only half of the time. That summer I was actually able to keep the A/C off and the windows open until mid afternoon on most of the summer days.
This past year the tree dropped a limp which punctured the foam, easy fix was to get the cans of spray insulation foam, spray it in then shape it to match and patch paint it.
As for leaks - there hasn't been a single one - in fact that is why we went with the foam since the roof leaked in places.
The spray foam is the same kind they spray in walls for insulation. The guys we got to do it prefer to use the coating on industrial flat roofs, they made an exception in his case because I asked real nicely and I was willing to do the white coat myself and I was willing to accept no warranty – part of the warranty included a few years annual check and repainting of the foam itself – that alone tends to eat up the company budget who makes most of their money through spraying lots of that foam that they make a profit. Thus trailers are not their usual application.
To prep for the spray I also retrofitted the interior of the trailer. In years past the Roof A/C unit caused the strut work of the roof (2x2 bent to make a shallow arch) to warp over the living room/kitchen as a “fix” I used a 3x4 that I jacked into place and built the pantry wall under one side and a shelf unit under the other to support the “beam” the narrower opening of 4’ 7 inches makes the separation between kitchen and living space clearer unlike the full trailer width opening. Removal of the A/C left an 18” by 12” hole that had to be covered with sheet metal. In the kitchen the stove vent had to be removed and the hole covered. The sprayers inspected and scraped any loose bits of previous roof coatings (I had sanded most of that away myself). Along the edge of the roof they bent sheet metal (flashing) attaching it to the roof, bending it to come up about 1 ½ half inch then extending below the existing roof line 2 inches, sort of like this: |\_ | Where the straight part extended down the exterior wall a bit.
Most likely above the ceiling panels there is a sheet of ply wood – ¼ inch like what should be on the existing walls. Most likely you will discover that that is not only nailed into place but is also glued to the strut work or the ceiling joists (Two options I know were used were 2x8 beams cut with an elongated arch and strut work made of 2x2 pieces glued and nailed together to form an elongated arch). Above that will be (most likely) 2 inches of fiber glass without any vapor barrier paper on it – most likely loosely fitted.
The roof will most likely be sheet metal (either galvanized steel or aluminum) set on a sheathing of ¼ to ½ particle board, due to age of the trailer you most likely will find that that particle board is warped, bowing between each strut/joist. If there has been any leaks up there the particle board may have already come apart in places. Thus removal of the ceiling will be extremely dirty.
If you choose to redo the ceiling there is ¼ inch dry wall. What I did was to cut it into 4x8 and 4x4 sheets – far easier for one person to lift into place. Since trailers tend to sink (this one requires releveling every few years) I used lathing strips to cover the seams, nailing along one edge – this allows for the twisting and uneven settling without breaking seams. I also did this on the walls. Of course I was careful about how I hung the drywall, its not just in strips over our heads, I did it with a design in mind – since the width of the trailer is 10 feet, I used the 4x8 strip down the center, and the less than 2 feet by 8 feet strips down the sides.
Along the edge of the lathing strip (where I meets the dry wall) I used elastic caulking, then painted.
Those louvered windows are huge heating and cooling losses. What we did was to get thick vinyl (as in the clear vinyl shower curtains) from a fabric store, we cut those to fit the existing screens, on the inside of the screen (the screens are inside the trailer, thus it would be between the screen and the glass) We selected several windows that we will not ever open up again (4 out of 9 windows) which are permanently sealed – the kitchen and the living room porch I put in vinyl in the winter I leave it off in the summer since both those windows are protected by the awning/porch/patio that runs along that side of the trailer.
I also left the bathroom window unsealed, and the front small window (near the bow of the trailer) in summer I run a fan pointing out the bow window along wit a an that points from the bathroom into he bed room. At night I run both sucking in and pushing out air taking advantage of the cooler evenings here.
Another huge loss is beneath your feet. When I did the retrofit I also installed 4 inch fiberglass in the floor (that required going below, removing the particle board sheathing and replacing with ¼ ply which I painted on both sides (general white exterior grade paint) and the edges. That alone keeps the floors cooler in the summer/warmer in the winter.
Another thing that might help, but requires a few years, is to plant trees. Not conifers or pines, but the kind that drip their leaves in fall along the south side of the trailer. In the summer we get shaded, in the winter when the leaves are gone we get solar gain which helps to warm the place a bit more.
Also we switched to a new energy efficient wall A/C unit. I took care to install it at the front end of the trailer, using the fans to push the air back to the rear. I leave the bath room door open a inch and the bathroom window open a bit in summer, the A/C unit came with an exterior vent, thus it sucks air from outside pushing it in – this allows air circulation and better cooling.
All in all we most likely cut the energy use in half (other factors play in this such as the energy crises a few years ago and a change in life style which has lead to different patterns of heating and cooling – i.e. I spent more time at home now)
12-27-05, 04:50 PM RoverRoad Wow, that's a lot of info. I think you've described my trailer exactly. Mine is a New Moon just like this one . Only it doesn't have the raised roof in the front.
How do you think that foam roof would hold up if you ever had to move the trailer? I think $3000.00 is a lot more than I want to spend. I think the wood plank ceiling that I wanted to do is more than I wanted to spend as well. Obviously I haven't worked out the details yet but I'm getting great ideas here. I do know that I want to coat the roof and reinsulated at least the back bedroom this spring. I work nights so all I need to do for now is keep the back bedroom cool during the day and at night I can open the place up and cool it down.
Something does need to be done with the windows. Most of the crank mechanisms are broken. I was actually thinking about boarding up all of the windows on the back side since they just overlook me neighbors yard. Then put in new vinyl windows in the front. Windows aren't too expensive and I know how to hang them. Not a tough job.
The trailer needs a whole new subfloor. But I'm not even going to mess with that this summer, nor am I going to mess with the windows this summer. The whole thing needs rewired too. So we're talking about a lot of money. So, in all likelihood I will just be coating the roof with something that is brushed on out of a can and insulating the back bedroom.
12-28-05, 12:16 AM DvdGStwrt
quote: Originally posted by RoverRoad: Wow, that's a lot of info. I think you've described my trailer exactly. Mine is a New Moon just like this one. Only it doesn't have the raised roof in the front.
How do you think that foam roof would hold up if you ever had to move the trailer? I think $3000.00 is a lot more than I want to spend. I think the wood plank ceiling that I wanted to do is more than I wanted to spend as well. Obviously I haven't worked out the details yet but I'm getting great ideas here. I do know that I want to coat the roof and reinsulated at least the back bedroom this spring. I work nights so all I need to do for now is keep the back bedroom cool during the day and at night I can open the place up and cool it down.
Something does need to be done with the windows. Most of the crank mechanisms are broken. I was actually thinking about boarding up all of the windows on the back side since they just overlook me neighbors yard. Then put in new vinyl windows in the front. Windows aren't too expensive and I know how to hang them. Not a tough job.
The trailer needs a whole new subfloor. But I'm not even going to mess with that this summer, nor am I going to mess with the windows this summer. The whole thing needs rewired too. So we're talking about a lot of money. So, in all likelihood I will just be coating the roof with something that is brushed on out of a can and insulating the back bedroom.
The foam (which really is the greatest thing to happen to this trailer) is just like the insulation filler foam that comes in cans – not the latex (water based) stuff, but the other stuff that sticks to everything. According to the guy who sprayed it, the foam will stay on as long as the under coat (roof sealer applied before) was stuck. If it is peeling you would of course have the peeling stuff removed.
As for installing windows in a trailer, depends on the frame that is already in. You got to also remember that the thickness of the walls of the trailer are about 2 ½ inches – unlike 2x4 stud framed houses. So you would have to make certain that any windows you get (with frames) would fit.
In 2001 I did the “retrofit” I brought this 1959 Westwood (10 x 45 feet) into the 21st century. I had to gut out the bedroom, bathroom and kitchen – basically half of the trailer.
I learned a few things such as there is a lot of asbestos in the trailers, the linoleum “spotted” stuff has asbestos, the ceiling squares have asbestos, even the electrical wiring is sheathed in weaved yarn and asbestos. So take care when removing stuff and opening walls.
12-28-05, 12:48 AM RoverRoad Wow, I didn't think about the aspestos issue. That's a good point. I was pretty much just planning on laying any new materials over the top of the old ones. So in the future If I redo the walls they would be 4" thick instead of 2". and all of the new wiring would be put in through the new studs. But what do building codes say about hooking a trailer full of aspestos to city services if I ever have to move the place. I need to look into some building codes. I may be better off ripping out the old stuff maybe one 10 foot section at a time. I don't want to totally rip the place up all at once since I do have to live in here.
I know it doesn't make much economic sense but I really don't want to buy a house. My credit is improving and I could aford house payments now, but I kind of like the low cost humble suroundings of living in a trailer. I also like the idea that I could just abandon the thing if I ever decide to move back to Portland.
12-28-05, 03:52 PM DvdGStwrt If you leave the wheels on the thing it is considered a vehicle, if you take off the wheels (and tow bar) it becomes a "permanent" structure and falls under building codes. Our landlord, not willing to shell out the extra shekels for taxes, keeps the wheels on and has it registered as a vehicle through DMV. Thus ours falls under a broader range of what we can and can not do.
With ours it is still a "vehicle" thus the local building codes did not apply. Of course that's here in my county - the law could be different where you are.
Locally (county) asbestos is still allowed to exist in buildings if it is not compromised, meaning the linoleum can stay as long as it is not breaking up. Asbestos in dust form is the concern. Some places have stricter codes and insist that all lead and asbestos is removed before resale of a place or use as a public space even in historic buildings. You can ask the local building inspector as to how code applies to mobile homes.
quote: Originally posted by RoverRoad: I know it doesn't make much economic sense but I really don't want to buy a house. My credit is improving and I could aford house payments now, but I kind of like the low cost humble suroundings of living in a trailer. I also like the idea that I could just abandon the thing if I ever decide to move back to Portland.
Why don't you just rent? A trailer is not appropriate for the climate that you are in. It makes no sense whatsoever to renovate the trailer as you are discussing. Sorry to be blunt but you should really reconsider all this thinking about trailers and move into something that suits your needs better.
12-30-05, 09:54 PM RoverRoad Aminator, I only paid $2000 for the place. It had all new appliances, stove refrigerator, furnace water heater were all new. So I practically got the trailer for nothing considering what it would cost for all of those new appliances. The rental for the land is only $325 per month and that includes water and trash. The landlord basically just wanted to make money on the land so he practically gave the trailer away. The place sat empty for a couple of years before I bought it.
Anything that I rent without wheels for a comparable square footage is going to cost me at least $500 for an apartment and at least $900 to rent a house. This landlord hasn’t raised my land rent in 3 years so far.
So, I’m really getting a bargain for this place. I figure if I spend about $200 to $300 a month on fixing it up what have I lost? I get to have fun doing it. I get the badly needed exercise and I get to learn some things about home improvement and it won’t drain my bank account.
Besides, I’ve lived in apartments and I don’t like them. At least with a trailer you get a yard and some distance between your neighbors. Working nights I need to have quiet during the day so that I can sleep. That’s hard to get in an apartment.
I think I’d be able to get at least $8000 for it if it were in good shape.
01-04-06, 02:16 PM DvdGStwrt I don't know if your interested, but I collected up my "retrofit" pictures and put them on a website page:
Might make for interesting look see for you - granted these are not all of them, but a few to let you see what I did.
Note in kitchen the "half wall" against the wall - that later became the plumbing wall for the new kitchen with the cabinet in front of it.
Cheers
01-04-06, 03:56 PM RoverRoad It looks like you were living in it while you remodeled. How did you manage without a bathroom?
The main reason I want to move the bathroom to the back of the trailer is so that I won't have to cancel out the existing bathroom while I work. Besides, all of the trailer hookups are in the back. Water and drainage all runs under the back.
My only concern is that the existing electrical panel is rite where the new toilet would go, and I know that you can't have an electrical panel in a bathroom. So I'm going to have to figure out where to have the electrical service moved to before I start. The most logical spot is in the new laundry closet. But again, I don’t know what code says about having an electrical panel above a washing machine, or on a plumbing wall for that matter. I'll probably have to have a new electrical service installed at the front of the trailer where the kitchen is now and that may be complicated.
You will notice that I didn't leave room for a water heater or a furnace in my floor plan. That is because I want to install a tankless water heater and wall mounted electric heaters to conserve space.
What do you know about tankless water heaters?
When all is said and done, If I do this, I plan to be surrounded by marble, stone and hardwoods. Not to mention the satisfaction of being able to say, “I did that.” But right now it’s just an idea…
The roof insulation is a given. I'm doing that for sure this spring.
01-04-06, 10:39 PM DvdGStwrt One of my plans was to divide the rear into two sections; one (5 feet across plus the thickness of the wall) would be the bathroom, the bath tub making up the width of the room, the length then being decided by running toilet and sink along that new wall. The remainder was going to be for a "closet" as well as a hallway. I figured to leave access to the electric box at the end of the closet/hallway. The end plan has the electrical panel in my closet – which is what it was before I had to rip out the rear wall/cabinetry.
The landlord VETOED that idea citing concerns that the rear is cantilevered into space about 3 feet due to the fancy rear end.
How we survived the lack of plumbing:
First of all we took two weeks off. We slotted two days for deconstruction and the remainder for running a very basic plumbing (sewage for toilet and tub, hot water heater) it actually went pretty fast, less than 5 days I had the tub and toilet in and working and a sink. Of course I only had half a drywall wall up behind the toilet, the rest we hung sheets until I finished hanging drywall. In one of the pictures you will see the wall with the hot water hater (20 gallon) in front – the hot water heater is hooked up. We had a minor delay the day that picture was taken, the toilet that came out of the trailer had been dropped or it would have been installed in that picture.
We moved the bed to the front for all of this, hanging a bed spread across the trailer along with heavy duty sheet plastic. I shut off the vents to the rear of the trailer leaving two in the front open, worked out since the furnace is right next to the front door. During the day I taped the open end of the plastic closed – that kept the dust out. We kept a few things in the house, like computer, TV – things that may have been ruined in the shed those we shuffled around a bit Wink in the process of rebuilding.
After I hung the dry wall and got the basic kitchen together (as seen in those pictures) I then turned my attention to the bed room. Ironically the last room started was the first one fully completed, I built two built in closets with a built in head board recessed back to allow for the bed – for extra credit I rebuilt the bed support box, including four deep drawers, tossed the box spring and went with a futon mattress – works rather well. Since the landlord was already gripping about the price of materials I had to give up the birch plywood and hardwood trims to go with MDF and pine – so I didn’t get my stained wood.
After that I went back to the kitchen, finished with doors, flooring, and more shelves – “weekend” jobs mixed in with a few nights.
I know absolutely nothing about tankless water heaters.
As for moving electrical to a laundry room, won’t you have to have a laundry room before you can build your new bathroom? If you start off with the bathroom first, then you have to remove the existing electrical box first – you see where I am heading?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
I don't know how old my trailer is but I know its really old. We have lived here for 8 months, the summer out electric bill was about 200 - 250 and we just had our cheapest bill which is 98. The bills are bad enough but it doesnt stay cool/warm on one side of the trailer. In order to heat it comfortably the other half is miserably hot. So my kids end up sleeping with me. We are only going to live here, hopefully, another year and half until my husbands deployments are up. In the mean time is there a cost efficient way to help the issue? Some of the problem is that on the "better" end of the trailer there is only about a 2 foot difference from the ground to the trailer, on the other end there's about 4 feet. most of the walls have been replaced, as well as some of the flooring, however most of the insulation underneath is hanging off or missing. I don't have any skills and much money to hire someone to do the work needed to properly reinsulate it. I can feel draft in the side of the trailer higher off the ground. I don't even know how to begin to find where they are coming from, other than an obvious hole. Any suggestions?
Posts: 10 | Location: East Texas | Registered: 01-01-08
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