I am wondering if anyone can help me with my house. Here's the situation. The water and sanitation dept. has found a crushed sewer line somewhere in the neighborhood. Since I had a man hole in the front of my yard, they have dug all of the water and sewage lines out and replaced them, and are proceeding up the street to do the rest until they find the problem. Now here's where it gets frustrating...yesterday, it was pouring rain, they have been digging for three days, they had to put a retainer in for the guys and my water had been shut off. Real pretty site, btw. So around 8 in the evening they knock on my door and inform me that they can't hook the water up because they are getting shocked by my house. I said, "What?!" They said I need to get an electrician in and find out what's causing this. So they proceed to call the electric co. and disconnect everyone for about an hour and then once they get the water back on they turn us back on. When I asked how they turned the water off in the first place, they said simply "The backhoe just ripped it all out, there was no problem." So here's my question. I have a grounding rod hooked up with copper wiring into the ground next to my house, and then going in through the wall, and into the circuit box. The circuit box was a fast job, done by a freind, who replaced the old fuse box with the circuit box. So was the grounding rod job. Now, I have been having surges for quite some time, and have told this so called freind about them. Lights blink when too much is on, washer, dryer, microwave, TV's and pc's. I am even having it turn one of the circuit breaker switches off, which has happened in the past few months several times. I know for a fact that not all the outlets are grounded because of a surge protector that has a light that comes on when you plug in. There is only one outlet that is grounded, in the kitchen. I did have a construction man give me his card, and is going to give me a free estimate. He is a firearms inspector it says on his card. This house is pretty old, it was my parents. It's a nice little brick home, and it's just showing some wear and tear. What do you think could've shorted out the water lines like that?
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02-06-04, 05:49 PM
DvdGStwrt
Not once did I hear mention that an electrician came in and did work - maybe I missed that?

A Friend redid the box. Is he an electrician, does he do that for a living? Is he licensed as an electrician?

As for a Construction guy who hands you his business card which says he sells fire arms - um, does that sound right to you? Would you use a doctor who hand you a business card that says he is a firearms expert?

CALL A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!

Not a Handyman
Not a general Contractor
Not a firearms dealer
Not a Friend who happens to know how to use tools
Not your Doctor
Not a plumber
Not a mechanic

An Electrician who comes with license and a company who stands behind him that has been in business for years and is willing and able to guarantee the work.

Sounds like your little house may need a lot of electrical work.

Here are your choices. Spend as little as possible and live with the risk of injury, property damage, fire, and/or death.

OR (which is the most logical to me) You can hire an electrician to fix all the problems from the power surges to the small fact that your outlets are not grounded.

I would take it a step further and have a Ground Fault Interrupt circuit put in in the kitchen and Bath. GFI circuits save lives.

As an old house (built before the age of electronics in every room) You may want to also have more circuits installed dedicated to the TV, computer and other such stuff with a built in surge protector.

You might even want to consider having a dedicated circuit for the Refrigerator and/or the microwave.

Is it costly? Yes - but it is worth every penny.

Power surges wreck modern electronics like PCs TV's and even minor appliances like coffee makers that have timers (chips). Long term you will save on not having to replace electronics. And if it prevents hospitalization, or a fire, or death it is worth far more than what you spend.

David

02-07-04, 06:56 AM
soaringhorse
Hi David,
Sorry, I didn't expand on this, it was just alot of info I was trying to get out. The man who replaced the circuit box was not certified at the time, he did have a maintenance job which he did have a little experience with this, plus his brother was certified and was giving him advice. Now he is certified, due to getting a new job. The thing is he just did a rush job on it. I watched him. And yes you're right the circuits should have their separate boxes for the big stuff. I think the only one that has its own separate box is the new furnace. I do have a GFI in the bathroom that he put in, but yes I am going to get one for the kitchen as well.
As far as the gentleman who presented his card, he said he is getting his certification so I guess he is working on it. He is just going to do an estimate for me, to give me an ideal what is the problem. I will take your advice and take heed as to who works on my house from now on. Thanks for your input.
This is just getting worse by the minute, now my drains are acting up, too. GRRRRRR! Can I just go on vacation to a warmer climate? lol

[This message was edited by soaringhorse on 02-07-04 at 07:15 AM.]

02-07-04, 08:43 PM
Byter
Hi SH:
First let me say "I agree with David about getting an Electrician to take care of this problem"

I'ed go a bit further and recommend you find a qualified one.

Your problem sounds like a possible combination of a Broken Neutral conductor somewhere in your house power systen and/or improper bonding and/or grounding at the "Service Panel"

This type of problem can be daunting to find "IN Person" so I won't even attempt it over the internet.

Find someone that understands trouble shooting of this type of problem.

Remember Certified doesn't always mean Qualified. Eek Wink

Best to you,

Mike b. (AKA Byter)

02-08-04, 06:46 AM
soaringhorse
Well, since I already had scheduled an appointment for this man to come in, he came over and checked out a few things. The first thing he did was test the water meter outside. He said that the problem was that there was a buildup of static electricity that was causing the problem on the water meter. We then went to the circuit breaker box and he tightened all the screws and checked the ground wires, and he said it looked okay. There is a little problem with one circuit, it has nothing hooked up to it at all, (empty) so I will have an electrician look into this. But he didn't see anything else wrong with it.
Thanks for the great advice! Smile

02-08-04, 07:21 AM
Fritzzs
A build up of static electricity on pipes that are in the ground ?????????????????/

Excuse me, I know I still believe in Santa Claus, but THAT is a little too much to swallow....
02-08-04, 07:55 AM
Byter
I concurr Don.
Anyone that says you're seeing STATIC buildup on
a water pipe is blowing smoke up your petutie (sp?) Roll Eyes

Probably covering the fact he has no clue as to what's happening. Mad

In his favor, making sure all lugs are tight is
one of the checks to make with a problem like this.

Mike b. (AKA Byter)

02-12-04, 02:08 PM
Walks On Water
I know this is not the answer but has anyone heard of pouring a bucket of salt water around the grounding rod to improve conductivity to ground. Some old timer told me that and it kinda makes a little sense. Salt water, more conductive etc.

I do know what will happen if you loose your neutral to your house and you do not have a good ground someplace like a grounding rod or metal water line. I have all 3 now.

02-14-04, 08:33 AM
Byter
Hi WOW:
Yep I've heard of this trick but the recommended
salt to use is not a soultion of regular table
salt (sodium cloride).

A solution of that will guickly corrode any metel in the area. I've heard that you use
COPPER SULFATE.
Supposadly this won't corrode everything and actually puts a coating of copper on things.

I've never tried this nor seen it in action so I
can't really recommend it or not.

Mike b. (AKA Byter)

02-14-04, 09:28 AM
donaldekliros
Soaringhorse:

1. You mentioned that you are having lights blink when too many electrical devices are turned on.

2.) You said that the circuit box & grounding rod were installed by a friend.

Was this friend a Qualified & Certified Electrical Contractor, If not you have a major electrical problem.

The reason your lights are blinking when too many loads are turned on is because you have an improperly installed system.

Your friend forgot that when he installed the new Power Panel he overlooked installinbg a new line from your Panel to the Electrical source of your power.

When you turn on too many electrical systems, the power line gets hot because you are overloading the cable. This happens quite often with older houses when one decides to upgrade & the work is done by someome who does not know what he is doing.

This is something that you would never see or feel because the cable is installed overhead. You did mentioned that the house is old & was owned by you parents. That's why I feel that the power line is overhead.

Don's Reply:

1. YOU MUST HAVE THIS LINE REPLACE WITH A BIGGER COPPER LINE.

2.) I also would suggest that you spend a few dollars & have a Certified Electrical Engineer inspect your electrical system to have it brought up to code.

3.) The Engineer will also be capable of determining why the workmen are getting Shocks.

My guess is that the water line that they are getting shocks from is the metal system originally used to provide a ground for your electrical system.

It has probably deteriorated with time, is no longer a good bond & as a result is not truly a grounding mechanism. This would explain why you had to have a grounding rod installed.

I am answering your question as I am a Licence Professional Engineer E16990, in the state of Missouri, Retired.

Also the answers you received from DvdGStart & Byter are all good advice.

04-07-04, 06:32 PM
donaldekliros
soaringhorse:

You have received several pieces of good advice. I think we all are waiting for a reply from you as to what you are having done to resolve your problem.

You may not think that you have a serious problem. however the conditions that you mention could be fatal if not remedied.

Since you have this Question in the Home Owners & Renter/Moving Issues I am led to believe that you are not the only one living in the house.

If you have tenant(s) the problem could be worse that you think. If anything happens to your tenants you could be sued.

Please bring us all up to date on what you did.

Don

04-10-04, 04:25 PM
soaringhorse
Don,
Thanks for being concerned about this. Sorry about the late response.
Here's the situation, I am the home owner of this house. I have lived in this house for over 13 years. I have been trying to keep up with it, as one thing falls apart, I have to replace it. It really can test my will, beings I am a single mom, and can barely make ends meet as it is.
Just to give you a little idea of what has been going on in my neighborhood, I will give show you what I've been dealing with for over two months now.....

Click Here

They are digging up a man hole out of my yard. They have been tearing up my driveway for the past week, and have torn up the sewer line coming from my house in the process. As well as dug up the road because they found running water coming out from under the road, obviously another sewer line. The reason this whole thing was started is they said they are looking for a leak on our street as well as replacing all the old lines.
I have wrung my hands during this whole process, because they are not just doing this to me, it's every house on the street on my side. They have touched my lines recently bare handedly and have not gotten shocked. My question is: Why aren't they getting shocked now? I have made sure all my ground wires are hooked up to my circuit breaker, as well as the one that is running into the house with a rod, doesn't it seem like I will be spending money because of their misjudgement?

04-10-04, 05:38 PM
donaldekliros
Soaringhorse:

Since I am not there I can only speculate as to why the Sewer men are not getting shocked.

My first guess would be that they have replaced the metal sewer line with a PVC plastic pipe line, thereby breaking the continuity of the line to your house.

I can appreciate the problem you have, being a single Mom, however you must hang in there.

You are not alone. All of us have problems that can test our mettle ever once in a while. I have a major water problem that I am dealing with now. The repair of my basement is going to run in the thousands of dollars.

Do you have any brothers that can assist you regards to this matter. I don't neccessariy mean in a monetary sence, but just someone who can talk to these people man to man.

I just want to let you know that the answers to your problems that I mentioned in my first reply are still valid ones. You should review them again & do what you can to correct them.

When you had you Circuit Breaker Box replaced do you know what the capacity of the new box is? What was the capacity of the old box?

If they have misjudged their repair management & you can prove it between you & your neighbors, you have a grounds for a law suit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,