Just out of curiousity....how many people in here continue to learn and play their instruments on their own for their own enjoyment? I have had several friends look at me cross eyed when they learn that I am taking piano lessons.
I am just curious
Posts: 2177 | Location: USA | Registered: 09-13-03
I play the electronic organ purely for my own enjoyment and pleasure and I play for hours at home. All my work colleagues are totally ignorant where music is concerned and think I am mad wanting to spend my Friday evenings at my lesson instead of going out with them. They constantly tease me about playing with a 'big organ' etc but I don't care, my life is certainly a whole lot richer for it.
Posts: 7961 | Location: Hyde.Cheshire. UK | Registered: 10-18-02
Many of my students are mature adults. Amongst the oldest students whom I have personally started from scratch to learn a keyboard instrument have been several in their seventies. Most of them derive a real delight from their increasing ability to produce music, which often is not matched by any other activity in which they indulge.
A favourite situation is where a lady whose children are in their teens or older, comes to me saying something like, "Well, I have often fancied learning a keyboard instrument, but was too busy with the family until now. Am I too old?" These people are a delight to teach, and often are much more fun to coach than their children, as they begin to discover the marvellous and magical world of music-making.
For anyone interested in learning more, I suggest that you have a look [URL=http://groups.msn.com/pianopassion ]here[/URL] Although this is a website dedicated to pianists of all kinds, you will see how many adults are merely enthusiastic amateurs, exchanging views courteously and in a friendly manner.
Shelster, Jenny, there are more of you out there than you think. Play and enjoy!
[This message was edited by Ritzmar on 09-29-03 at 02:54 AM.]
Posts: 3456 | Location: Marple Cheshire UK | Registered: 06-04-02
I have been playing piano since I was 10. I took lessons all the way through high school, and was one of 6 people in the whole school to finish a course in Advanced Music Theory. I loved it. Music was my whole heart until I graduated high school, became pregnant and married. When I moved away from home, I couldn't take my piano with me, so I put music on the backburner until 3 years ago.
Now, I am back to playing regularly. My piano teacher thinks I have alot of talent, but in my mind, unless I can play as well as a professional (Unrealistic, I know) it isn't worth sharing with people. If I make a mistake while playing for an audience, I will beat myself up for days. I have only been in 2 recitals and had to medicate myself to get through both.
Any suggestions on getting past that?
Posts: 2177 | Location: USA | Registered: 09-13-03
Yes. As I am a pianist myself I found that the more I played in front of a group of people the less nervous I was. So I wonder if you play regularly in front of crowds or groups- for instance at a church, for a choir, etc? This has helped me. Also try to cut down on the coffee or tea if you drink it. For a while there I was drinking too much tea and coffee and it made me more nervous while playing, with more mistakes. Good Luck!
I also get a lot of enjoyment from the piano at home like you. It is great therapy. That is why I tell everyone to learn a musical instrument. I can always entertain myself playing music without needing to spend so much on others entertaining me.(concerts, CD's etc) That's why I haven't been following the whole downloading music fiasco, because whenever I want to hear a piece of music again (whether pop, jazz, or classical) I buy the music and play it! If they don't have it, I can order it. I have been able to find almost everything I ever wanted. One piece (Schubert) I had to order from Germany and it took over four weeks to get but it was worth it!
Ha! Virtually every single one of my pupils throws his/her hands up in horror if they hit even one single wrong note. I almost tear my hair out to get them to continue as if nothing has happened, and to maintain the pulse and rhythm at all costs. I have used every analogy I can think of to draw parallels with the human pulse and the musical one, but little really works. The only way to cure this is to play regularly to friends and relatives, regardless of the performance results, until nerves are blunted by the repetition of the conditions. Eventually the brain learns that stopping and suffering are simply counter-productive, and the overview, the larger picture is what really matters.
Also, concentrate more on projecting the whole musical experience, by focusing on the argument unfolding, rather than worrying about whether you are looking and sounding good or bad. As in so many aspects of life, instead of placing yourself at the centre as the most important factor, place the music there. You will be surprised by how much easier it is when you are not the main focus of your own attention!
Posts: 3456 | Location: Marple Cheshire UK | Registered: 06-04-02
Hello, Stampeding Turtles! You beat me by two minutes...I see we think alike. To tea and coffee I would also add alcohol (of which I am inordinately fond!) as an absolute no-no for at least 24 hours before a performance. That one G&T to 'steady the nerves' is anathema to a clear performance. I actually do enjoy a cup of tea before a performance, making sure, of course that the bathroom has been thoroughly visited prior to the event!
Posts: 3456 | Location: Marple Cheshire UK | Registered: 06-04-02
Its like you guys know me! My teacher is always telling me to quit looking over my shoulder (meaning, quit worrying about notes that are already played). I do that all the time. Its something psychological, if I play a wrong note, I have to go back and fix it!
Its funny because I have just been emailing a friend because he wants to hear me play. I have been trying to explain my fear, but he's saying the same thing you are....play in front of people and its less scarey.
I have to say, my fear has diminished some. When I first started lessons with my current teacher (after 8 years without playing) my hands shook just from playing in front of her. Then, if other students would come in early , my hands would completely freeze up! Since then I have done 2 recitals with 100 people in attendance (its a small town)
Music is definately my therapy. I lock myself away in my dining room with the piano and "medicate" myself depending on the days events. I have 2 favorites depending on my mood. If I am down (I am a hospice nurse, it happens quite a bit) Its the first movement of Moonlight Sonata. If I am angry its Chopin's Military Polonaise. I am currently working on the 3rd movement of Moonlight, so that one will probably be a good one for when I am wound up too.
Anyway, I greatly appreciate your input. I am so rarely around people who are musical, other than my teacher. Tis good to be amongst friends.
Posts: 2177 | Location: USA | Registered: 09-13-03
Good for you, Shelster! That last movement of 'The Moonlight' is a heck of a lot harder than people realise...good luck with the trill at bar 32 (right hand) and all the broken chords. Have a look here and see if you like the site. Let me know when you can play it the whole of 'The Moonlight'!
Posts: 3456 | Location: Marple Cheshire UK | Registered: 06-04-02
Wow, I can see another online addiction forming. Thank you Ritzmar!
There is the difference between my (extremely amateurish) and lots of others with way more talent. The 3 movement of Moonlight is probably the hardest thing I will have learned to date, and will probably take me months to learn.
I am not one of those naturally gifted type people, I have to work extremely hard on this. But what a feeling of accomplishment when I do learn new pieces.
On another note....I just learned a friend of mine owns a Steinway.....my heart is just aching to play that piano. (I have an old '1879' cabinet grand that my parents paid $200 for when I was 10).
Posts: 2177 | Location: USA | Registered: 09-13-03
I also learned the Moonlight some time ago (15 years). I fell in love with the piece and remember that the first movement paradoxically was harder to pull off well- just because it requires greater control and emphasis. It is deceptively simple in appearance. I agree the third movement is more technically difficult and can be an impressive work to play! But I'm not sure if I have the energy that this piece requires these days. As the third movement is relentless and sustained in it's pace, it's an emotional and physical endurance test, you will agree?
Good to talk with people who are familiar with and play these great piano works!
Shelster:- a couple of tips for you, re the Presto Agitato. Practise the right hand slowly keeping your fingers very close to the keys at all times. Keep your arm as relaxed as possible, and, most important of all, listen as intently as you possibly can. Evenness of rhythm, dynamics and articulation (degrees of staccato/legato) must be absolute. Allow your arm to travel outwards, unimpeded by any tension, keeping it in a straight line with the back of your hand. As familiarity increases, increase the speed gradually, but listen like mad at all times. Your ear is far and away your best guide, if you develop it sufficiently (and without doubt the hardest part of your musical technique to acquire).
Most people sit far too high on the stool or bench (God forbid that you use a chair, anathema to a good performance!) I try to persuade my serious students to splash out on a good quality adjustable stool where they will. Odd how so many will buy an expensive instrument, spend a fortune on music and lessons, and sit on a soft dining room chair, eschewing the idea of maximising postural matters by not spending money on the right bench... Francois Couperin got it exactly right in 1716, in his treatise, " L'art de Toucher le Clavecin". Place the hand and arm flat, downwards on a table top, so that from elbow to fingertips the underside of the arm is in contact with the table. Draw the fingers towards the palm of the hand until the fingertips are in contact with the table, but not so 'clawed' as to bring the (well-trimmed!) nails into contact with it. This is now a perfect shape for you. Adjust the stool so that the underside of the arm is parallel with the floor when sitting at the keyboard, and leaning very slightly forward from the hips, maintaining this shape created at the table. (If you can get to see a copy of Jozsef Gat's excellent book you will see photographs and diagrams showing this).
Obviously there are minor adjustments made in the area of personal taste. Artur Rubinstein's posture was classic. Simply to copy him at the keyboard would solve all postural problems! His posture was perfect. Horowitz preferred to sit slightly lower, with the upper arm parallel to the floor, a position with which I tend to feel more comfortable. However, these are tiny details, ansd some may feel that I am nitpicking. What is not up for discussion, however, is that, physical disabilities apart, the back must be straight, the shoulders absolutely relaxed, the arm light, free and 'floating'. Schnabel said that 'tension should be in the forehead only!'
My apologies to those who may feel that some of this is unnecessarily detailed, but for anyone spending more than about a half-hour at the keyboard at a time, the above points become more and more important.
Posts: 3456 | Location: Marple Cheshire UK | Registered: 06-04-02
Thank you so much for the advice Ritzmar...I think I am going to have to print that advice out.....
I have tension problems in my forearms....my teacher says its cause I don't relax, and I don't move my arms with the music. I have very strong fingers and they do all the work. But it just doesn't feel natural to me to do it any other way. I will have to work on this posture and form quite a bit, but what brilliant advice!
I haven't gotten very far on this piece...I am fearing that it might be above my skill level (but I thought the same thing of Military Polonaise...so I continue to work on it) If I could focus on the music alone, no problem, but being a mom, wife, nurse etc...tends to limit my time..a bit.
My piano is an Emerson (Boston USA) cabinet grand. The piano tuner found a date inside for somewhere in the area of 1876 or so, but that is the date for the hardware inside. My parents bought it for me for $200 when I was 10 (19 yrs ago). Coincidently, when my great grandma died, she left me a music book copyrighted 1857 and had been published by the same company that built my piano.
I would love to replace it and get a baby grand, but for sentimental reasons, I can't. My piano tuner is impressed with the sound it produces...so I'll hang on to it until I can pass it on to my daughter (who plays violin, but is teaching herself piano)
was that too much info?
Thank you!
Posts: 2177 | Location: USA | Registered: 09-13-03
Getting over the nerves of a performance: I used to be nervous and stand at the back trying to hide ( when playng bass in a band ) but then it hit me: So long as it sounds reasonable, the audience are with you. They want you to suceed and wish that they had as much nerve as you. So chuckle visibly if you make a mistake, or even emphasise how stupid you feel. They will laugh WITH you not AT you. So just get your head straight and enjoy the mistakes as well as the performance. An audience does not want perfection: they can buy a CD for that. Remember Les Dawson increased his popularity when he played badly . . . . Don't stop the music. Dave
Posts: 1 | Location: Dunstable, Uk | Registered: 05-02-08
Originally posted by DavedBass: An audience does not want perfection: they can buy a CD for that. Remember Les Dawson increased his popularity when he played badly . . . . Don't stop the music. Dave
Les Dawson, the pianist? I'm just trying to visualise Artur Rubinstein playing The Grand, Blackpool for Summer season
Surely, hitting all the right notes in live performance is an obsession of our times. One or two of the old pianists I heard cared not a jot if they hit a wrong note. It made no difference to the performance. Rubinstein himself is said to have remarked that everyone now could play the right notes. That didn't matter. It wasn't the notes but the pauses in between that mattered
[Outsiders should know that Les Dawson was a very popular comedian. He had been a professional pianist early in his career. He used to end his act by sitting at a piano , saying, " And now for some old favourites". He'd start the tunes well but gradually introduce mistakes until he was triumphantly off- key as well as hitting the odd wrong note. At this point he'd often enquire why the audience was not singing along with him, urging them to join in. There was a distinct impression given that there was an art in all this: it required some musical knowledge and understanding, and some technique,to be that 'bad' ]
I've read of established, professional orchestral musicians who take prescription medications (beta blockers) to deal with the symptoms of nervousness that routinely overcome them at every performance.
I've got a recording of Tommy Dorsey 'fracking' a trombone note in a solo on his own theme song, "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You." That didn't stop them from re-mastering and re-issuing the same performance!
DavedBass, you give excellent and inspiring advice to any would-be musician. Welcome to AP (fyi you're exhuming a nearly 5-year-old thread -- a mere blink of the eye for many of us here...)
Sorry that I never heard of (or heard?) Les Dawson.
Posts: 2037 | Location: U.S. | Registered: 06-03-02
but I don't care, my life is certainly a whole lot richer for it.
Francois Couperin got it exactly right in 1716, in his treatise, " L'art de Toucher le Clavecin". Place the hand and arm flat, downwards on a table top, so that from elbow to fingertips the underside of the arm is in contact with the table. Draw the fingers towards the palm of the hand until the fingertips are in contact with the table, but not so 'clawed' as to bring the (well-trimmed!) nails into contact with it. This is now a perfect shape for you. Adjust the stool so that the underside of the arm is parallel with the floor when sitting at the keyboard, and leaning very slightly forward from the hips, maintaining this shape created at the table. (If you can get to see a copy of Jozsef Gat's excellent book you will see photographs and diagrams showing this).
