My 16 y.o son, whom I have not had any contact with, in 14 years, has decided he would like to meet me.

His mother and I have taked on the phone and he is a good kid, active in his church, and makes good grades. He will be starting his junior year in high school.

I have a 1972 VW Beetle that I would like to give him as a gift. He wants to get a job and can't because he does not have a car. What I would like from the 'pool are suggestions for an agreement that I can have him sign so he realizes his responsibilities in car ownership. This would have to be a non-binding agreement instead of a contract, because a 16 y.o. can't sign a contract.

My thoughts of what to include would be;

I get first option to purchase the car back he ever decides to sell it.

I'll pay the first six months of his insurance but he must pay after that.

Alcohol and tobacco must not be used in the car.

He must maintain a B or better grade point average.

Any other suggestions?

NC
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07-04-06, 10:13 AM
juanruiz
Is it your intent that if the last two stipulations are broken, you automatically get the car back? Will the car continue to be registered in your name? Have you inquired into the cost of insurance for a car whose primary driver is 16? Perhaps it would be better to simply loan him the car.

07-04-06, 11:37 AM
bedstor
JR raises a good point on Insurance (the premium will be sky high) Only way of covering it is for you or the Childs mother to be the principal driver(and the registered owner) and the Lad to be nominated as "an additional driver" (and take full excess against damage ) Still going to be high but lower than a driver only policy (which does not reduce until 25)
And being an original Beetle there are special classic car policies (which have good discounts to consider as well) Will have to do some searching for these ...there are useage restrictions on some so be aware of this. Roll Eyes

07-04-06, 12:23 PM
juanruiz
A few more observations. First, let me say that this is a very generous gesture, but, as I see it, fraught with pitfalls.

From your buy-back clause it appears that you do indeed plan on signing ownership over to him. If so, I don't believe your name can appear on the insurance policy (may be wrong, though). And, as I said before, given that scenario, he is going to take a real financial hit.

Also, whether registered in the same state or another, he'll have to cover the fees.

Moreover, and as you must be aware, there is no way legally that you can get your stipulations to stick. Once the car is in his name, it's his. You may want to buy it back, but short of his good will, he can sell it to whomever he wishes. Same is true for the tobacco/alcohol and gpa provisions.

As I originally said, better to simply loan him the car and keep it in your name.

07-04-06, 01:34 PM
MrsS
You can remain on the title either as "lienholder"or co-owner (if you go the latter route, be sure the title reads Yourname AND Sonsname, not "OR" )

07-04-06, 02:45 PM
Sherasi
Another suggestion is that no more than ONE other kid ride in the car WITH your son at any time (since it is well documented that 3 or more kids have the highest rate of all auto accidents)... except when another adult is there with them.

07-04-06, 06:43 PM
Xanadu
I agree that keeping the car in your name and loaning it to your son is the most sensible. Otherwise any agreement you made with regards to the conditions would be unenforceable.

A word of caution. As you haven't had contact with your son for 14 years, don't spoil the new relationship with too many conditions. After all this time you will need to take things slowly and carefully.

07-05-06, 11:27 AM
Georgia85
First of all, congratulations on becoming re-aquainted with your son!

Secondly, you wrote "I have a 1972 VW Beetle that I would like to give him as a gift." A gift with stipulations? It is a very generous gift and if you'd like to do that then I suggest totally signing over the car and making it his responsibility (or his mother's)to take care of the insurance. If he were living with you and you and his mother were still married then I would agree with the other suggestions. But he is basically a stranger to you and I would suggest you think long and hard before you sign your name along with his on any insurance policy. One mistake on his part and you'll pay dearly.

07-05-06, 01:53 PM
clarebear
I'm seeing another angle. Why are you giving him a car? Do you feel guilty that you haven't seen him his whole life? It seems to me as if you are sort of "buying" forgiveness and acceptance of you. I think giving him the car is a nice gesture. Paying for the car insurance is a little much. You say he is a good kid yet you are putting a lot of restrictions on him. He can't smoke or drink in the car. Do you think he would? While it is wonderful that you are reunited with your son, I do think you may be putting a little too must trust in some kid that you really don't know. You also may be giving a little too much- too soon. Legally, a 16 year old can not get insurance themselves. My son's car is still in his father's name. I pay the car insurance since he lives in my household. You say that you will pay the first 6 months car insurance. PLPD (basic) is about $600 every 6 months. I'm assuming he is still on a restricted probation license since he is only 16. That makes rates higher. I think a contract is pointless since it isn't a legal. And even if it was... would you enforce the contract? How could you possibly take back the car after giving it to him? You really can't without ending your relationship with him. That trust bond hasn't been built yet. I know you love your son very much but be honest. You only know what the mother tells you. Of course she wants you to give him a car. Bonus for her. Now, what if he can't pay the car insurance after 6 months? Then what? What about if he totals the car in an accident. If the insurance is in your name, your rates will go up. Either you give him the car or you don't. You can tell him what you expect but that is still no guarantee. Just know that if for any reason you do take the car back, he will hate you. (I'm serious) I think if you really want him to have the car then just give it to him with no strings attached. You need to just be a friend to him right now. Being a father will take some time and doesn't just happen when you pop into the picture. Enforcing a bunch of rules with a threat isn't the quickest way to build that bond. Tell his mother your expectations and let her enforce the rules. Thats her job- not yours. IMO

This message has been edited. Last edited by: clarebear, 07-05-06 08:55 PM

07-06-06, 06:39 AM
aminator2002
If you aren't part of his life yet and you can't be part of the supervision of the car, and have to make this kind of agreement then you shouldn't be giving him the car. IMO.

Kids don't need a vintage auto... imagine if he does break your rules. What does that do to your relationship?

It's like buying a house together on the second date. You can't predict what is going to happen yet so you shouldn't jump in with this kind of action.

If I was the kid and presented this kind of agreement from effectively a stranger, I would be put off and would feel obligated.

my two cents.

07-07-06, 05:15 AM
NCcichlid
Thanks for all the responses.

Insurance regulations will not allow me to loan him the car and add his name to my policy. He lives with his mother in an adjoining state.

The first six months of insurance, in his name only, would cost about $600.00.

Why give him a car? I was given a car at 16 (a Fiat 124 Spider convertible) and was told it was my responsibility. This experience helped teach me the value of a dollar and time management. Hopefully these lessons will also be learned by him. In addition, his mother is struggling financially and the more money he can contribute to his own living expenses, the better life he should have. I have no legal financial responsibility i.e court ordered child support, health insurance...

The gift of the car may be delayed (if I still give it to him) until Christmas or his February birthday. One concern of mine is when he comes to visit me at the end of this month, he will see my '86 Porsche 944, the '76 Porsche 911 Turbo, the '72 VW Beetle and my work truck all here at the house and wonder why "Daddy" has four cars and he doesn't even have one. Maybe I should move two of the cars.

"Daddy" is not rich, he just enjoys his "big boy" toys, but I digress...

Getting back to the subject, the boy needs a car so he can get a job. He wants to work. The VW seems the least expensive route to fulfill this need.

NC

07-07-06, 07:27 AM
clarebear
This is the first summer of him being 16. He should be looking for job now. He can walk or his Mom can drive him to work. You say you want to wait until Christmas or his 17th birthday. You are giving him the car to get a job. If that is true, I think you should give it to him now. You also have the option of just buying him a used car. All kids say they want a car to get a job. A 16 year old wants a car to drive to school, hang with their buddies, look cool, to stop having to walk everywhere and go to further places. While they could want a job for the extra money, that isn't the main goal.

I don't think "giving" a kid a car teaches them the value of a dollar. I'm telling you now that there is NO way a 16 or 17 year old can pay for insurance, gas, maintenance and car repairs themselves. You say his mother is financially struggling and he should pay for part of his living expenses. While that would be nice, it isn't realistic. How many years ago were you given your first car? 30 years ago you could get a paper route or a gas station job. This is a different day and age. Your son will end up working to support that car. Minimum wage barely puts gas in the car and it may buy him a couple of CD's. Gas prices are getting outrageous! He can't work full time while he is still in high school. If he does get a job, he will be lucky to get 20 hours a week. Jobs aren't that easy to find. The decent ones are usually taken by college students. Cars break and cost money to fix. You should expect him to call you periodically for cash to put into the car or for insurance money. He will. Lets not forget the speeding ticket which isn't going to be his fault. There is another $100.00 there. (yes, its gonna happen) He is not going to just work for his car and have no other entertainment. If by age 16 he hasn't learned the value of a dollar, a car won't make that happen. I don't buy the "I need a car to get a job". That seems backwards. I think a kid needs a job so they can get a car. That is responsibility. Don't forget that with a car comes a need to have a cell phone. The fun never ends. Wink

P.S. I think you should hide the Porches. He could never pay the car insurance on one of those. (Even if he dropped the full coverage)

07-07-06, 09:17 AM
juanruiz
Your having received a car at 16 in order to gain experience in responsibility may not be an operative analogy here. How well did the person who gave you the car know you and the possibility of success in his strategy? Did he think you were capable of taking on the load of car ownership? Do you know your son to the same extent? If not, wait and get to know him and see if he seems mature enough.

As for your cars, I think they supply the best lesson at this point: not to be envious of what others have accrued through success. You earned those cars, and should proudly show them to him.

07-07-06, 11:41 AM
aminator2002
"I don't think "giving" a kid a car teaches them the value of a dollar. I'm telling you now that there is NO way a 16 or 17 year old can pay for insurance, gas, maintenance and car repairs themselves. You say his mother is financially struggling and he should pay for part of his living expenses. While that would be nice, it isn't realistic. "

I'm going to go one step further with this and say that his living expenses are the parents' responsibility until age 18, and I don't like the idea of you sweeping in to give him a car with a contract when you haven't been involved in the parenting previously. Sorry, but I can't find any other way to say it than that the parent (the mother) should make the decisions and you should pay child support whether court ordered or not.

Having a 16 year old work to pay for living expenses, car insurance, gas, etc is unrealistic as clare says.

The idea that a 16 year old should make up for the mother financially struggling is pretty messed up... especially when you have 4 cars. Sorry but you can't claim to not have spare money when you collect autos... it just doesn't pan out.

The other solution is to just not get involved and continue to not pay anything. But if you want to know your son then I think child support is the first step.

Sorry if that was brutally honest.

07-07-06, 11:57 AM
Georgia85
Gotta love brutal honesty. I'm siding with Ami and Clare on this one.

07-07-06, 06:18 PM
honilov
Why on earth would you go that many years without contacting your son? What about all the visits in between that's missing? Christmas, birthdays, weekend visits, summer visits, etc.

If one of my my parents hadn't contacted me in that many years....they could keep their car. Material things just wouldn't cut it for me.

Good luck, and I hope all those lost years can be found with a car.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,