In my second language (Spanish), I'm able to understand nearly anything I hear and I can hold my end of a conversation well. I don't have to translate in my head as I listen or as I speak. I can go out with a group of Spanish-speakers and be an active part of the group. I can watch TV or listen to the radio in Spanish without difficulty. I have several friends who speak Spanish as a first language, and I use Spanish on a daily basis.

However, I learned Spanish as an adult, and since I learned "naturally" (by working in a foreign country) and not in a classroom setting, my grammar is not very good and my writing skills (spelling and especially the use of accents) are horrible.

I recently decided to take a University Spanish class to improve these faults, and the placement test I took put me at the upper-intermediate level. The test was about 50% listening and reading and 50% grammar. It wasn't very difficult, but I missed the advanced level by one point. I answered 3 questions incorrectly (they take off more points if you answer one incorrectly than if you simply leave the question blank). It was the grammar section that did me in (interestingly, when I asked a native Spanish-speaker about one of the questions that I was unsure of, he wasn't sure of the answer either).

In the class, the teacher speaks English about 50% of the time, which I find insulting and irritating, but the other students get lost quickly when she begins to speak Spanish for any length of time. They complain that they can't understand her Spanish or her English, which just embarrasses me. I hate to sound arrogant, but I can't understand what I'm doing in a class full of people who can't even understand good English spoken with a Latin accent, let alone Spanish. However, it is my first formal Spanish class, so I'm sure it will do me some good, and a good ego-bashing never did anyone any harm.

I'm often asked if I am fluent or bilingual. I've always felt uneasy when asked this question, but shortly before enrolling in the Spanish class, I had filled out a volunteer application. The application asked:

Are you bilingual? __ Yes __ No

There was no room to explain.

I marked "yes," but my placement in a class of people who obviously aren't bilingual has made me concerned that I lied on the application.

When asked if I'm fluent or bilingual, what would be the honest response?

[This message was edited by Sarai on 08-29-02 at 12:17 PM.]

Fluent is the ability to express onself effortlessly.....so in your case, it would be to be able to speak Spanish as if it were your first language - you don't have to stop and think of words, etc.

Bi-lingual would be the ability to speak two or more languages equally well

so - you would be telling it like it is if you answered yes to both of these options if you felt as comfortable speaking English as Spanish...and your understanding is equal.

Based on my own experience, I would say the honest answer in your case might well have been either fluent or bi-lingual. Many years ago I took a class in intermediate French, as an elective in electrical engineering, because I grew up in French Canada and felt that that gave me an edge. It gave me too much of an edge and most of the class didn't know enough about what the instructor was talking about unless he did most of his talking in English. Unfortunately, the poor fellow stuttered like mad in English and not at all in French. I considered myself bi-lingual, or at least at one time I was. It occurs to me that the people in your class may not have been assigned on the basis of bi-lingualism or they could be in two languages other than English and Spanish. I don't think bi-lingual necessarily means even a modicum of fluency.

My definition of bilingual is that one grows up learning two languages. For example when their parents come from two different countries, or when someone grows up in a country which uses another language that that of the parents. The result is that these people will be able to speak two languages without any accent, i.e. they have two native languages. That's my definition, but I've also heard others. I agree, it's confusing, same as with fluent. I call it fluent when someone can speak a foreign language without mistakes, without hesitation (i.e. almost as quickly as a native speaker), and with only a minor accent.
I'd never call myself bilingual, although I learned English as a child/teenager. I don't even say my English is fluent, because I do make mistakes, and although I think completely in English when I write or speak it, I sometimes can't come up with a word I want to use immediately. Also, I have a noticeable accent.
I have before gotten the impression that the American definitions of fluent/bilingual are more lax than mine. So I'm sure that after completing your courses and working on your grammar and orthography you'll be in the position to be able to rightfully call yourself bilingual over there. I think that the ability to communicate with Spanish speakers in everyday life counts more than spelling and grammar all that.

I've had the same kind of question in my mind for a while after getting to such a point of using Japanese in Japan. So I kind of came up with my own way to put it, but others may disagree. I kind of thought of there being a "beginner's fluency", "advanced fluency", etc. I want to say that there you are either fluent or you're not, but if you've learned your second language in another country, then you may understand what I'm talking about. I just left the decision to my Japanese friends. I'd ask them every now and then(since they've observered my progress right from the beginning) and have them give me honest input. "Would you say that I'm speaking Japanese fluently, or do you think I still have a little ways to go? Honestly" and questions like that. Just ask a native speaker of Spanish, who will give you some cold, hard, honest input on your progress in the language. If you seriously understand as much as you say you do, then I would say that you are fluent. And if you are fluent, that also means you are bilingual. Acording to my understandings; bilingual refers to the ability of reading, writing, and speaking two different languages. I haven't looked up the meaning in the dictionary, but I feel confident in my understanding of the word. And don't worry if there are still grammers and words that you don't understand. Just remember that even native speakers come up on words, phrases, and grammer points that they don't fully understand. That's why we have this section in the answerpool!

Well, I think these two terms are horrible. I've just looked them up in my dictionary.

Bilingual: expressed in, knowing, or using two languages.

Fluent: capable of flowing: FLUID. 2: ready or facile in speech 3: Effortlessly smooth and rapid.

By these definitions, I'm both fluent and bilingual, since I speak two languages, and my Spanish is ready, facile, smooth and rapid (and full of errors). However, it seems that most people hear "speaks like a native" when they hear the term "Bilingual," so despite the dictionary, I'm going with your consensus.

I've decided that when people ask me if I'm fluent, I'll say: "I speak fluently - and by that I mean smoothly, without much difficulty- but my Spanish is by no means perfect."

However, I won't ever say I'm bilingual again until I speak (and write) like a native -which will probably be never, although I'll continue working at it. Next time I see something like that, I'll check "no", but write underneath it, "I can communicate verbally in Spanish with ease, but not perfectly."

[This message was edited by Sarai on 08-30-02 at 11:27 PM.]

The derivation of fluent is from flowing. |I think you are fluent if you never have to stop because a word will noot come to your tongue. You may have an accent, you may use some strange constructs which reveal your background, but the "foreign" language never impedes your speech.

You are bi-lingual if you can use two languages with equal facility. If you answer a question in which the question was asked without noticing.

I an am English speaker, and am fluent in French once I get settled in. However, no-one will ever believe me to be a French speaker. I uderstand everything I am asked, and my answers are understood - but both side know I am "speaking foreign".,

I once gave a training course in Holland. The trainees all spoke perfect, unaccented English. But occasionally, one of them would be short of a word, and use the Dutch word instead - and then finish the sententce in Dutch. His colleagues would track the change, and continue the conversation in Dutch - until they saw my bewildered face, when the would switch, in mid sentence, back into English. *That* is bi-lingual - the the choice of language is irrelevant.