A very big translation agency in London asked their staff for the words they found hardest to translate, from the hundreds of languages they dealt with.The winner is:
ilunga in Tshiluba (a Bantu language).: a person who forgives abuse the first time, tolerates it the second time but never the third time
runners up:
hlimazi [Yiddish] : a chronically unlucky person
radioukace [Polish]: a telegraph operator for the Resistance behind the Soviet border.
The everyday English words that made it to the top of their list were:
One or two of those may not be familiar to Americans.That represents part of the problem, according to the agency. Some words are rooted in a culture.It is when they are used figuratively the translater is immediately lost; they can't just say ' a cricket term' for example. A googly is a deceptively difficult question which seems to expect and have a straightforward answer.[In cricket it's a slow ball (pitch) sent down to the batsman which is disguised; the bowler (pitcher) uses the action for one spin but the ball spins the opposite way on landing]. Now there's a useful word for the US to adopt .
How should we translate, in one word if possible, some of the above ? What American English ,or just English, words do you think are difficult to explain? *************************************************************** 06-22-04, 07:52 AM maiku hlimazi?
I'm pretty sure the Yiddish word you're talking about here is schlimmazel (variant spelling), a compound of German schlimm (bad) and Hebrew mazel (luck). (C.f. the Hebrew expression mazel tov (good luck)).
The word schlimmazel is frequent enough in American English as to be able to speak for itself. Laverne and Shirley even used it in a jingle they sang to introduce their eponymous television show.
As for English words which are hard for foreigners to grok, I think the word fair is a very good example. German, for example, seems to have lacked not only the word, but the very concept--until after the Marshall Plan at least. So what did they do? Just what Americans did with schlimmazel, viz. they borrowed it. So a German who feels he was cheated by getting a shorter glass of beer than everyone else is quite likely to say, "Aue, daß ist aber unfair."
06-22-04, 11:27 AM Leppi trying to translate the word like into hebrew is hard. For there is love and hate. You can say love a little bit, but you can't say like.
06-22-04, 11:39 AM FredPuli Hlimazi ?It was my misreading or perhaps a typo in the early online edition. This morning's printed edition has shlimazl; this must be your word maiku , however spelled Smile.
Another one in their list is 'gobbledegook'. This is more than mere nonsense and is not mere verbiage; it must be these nuances that make their life difficult .
Strangely the top word in English was plenipotentiary . This word must occur in diplomatic circles, so the translaters ought to be prepared for it by now, even if it takes more than one word.Almost needless to say the French have it: une (note that it's feminine; very observant these French Wink) plenipotentiare . They probably invented it, as they did much of our diplomatic language.
One word in the list definitely deserves a place in English:
pochemuchka [Russian]: a person who asks a lot of questions Big Grin
06-22-04, 11:59 AM FredPuli Leppi: the French have a different problem with 'love'. Aimer means 'to love' but it also means 'to like'. This is not some corruption of meaning or colloquial exaggeration, some hyperbole; it's not , as we might say, 'I love chocolate'. It always was the everyday verb for lovers or parents who love and for liking chocolate . This has long been a mystery to Anglo-Saxons who see the French both as masters of subtlety and as a romantic people. It is also a cause of embarrassing misunderstandings by English speakers when dealing with French people socially Big Grin.
In contrast, the French seem to have innumerable words and expressions for degrees of friendship, all subtly different.The word for 'friend' (ami is not enough by any means. They are a people who are difficult get to know as good friends; doing so is a progression through various nouns and expressions Smile Once achieved though, a close friendship is for life and very resilient.
How does Hebrew deal with degrees of friendship?
06-22-04, 12:23 PM maiku Leppi's reply above reminds me of the kinds of agonies we used to go through in our prepubescence, back in the day.
I will of course never forget the first girl I fell for. I was, after much painful introspection, prepared to admit to myself that I "liked" this girl. You could not, at that age, at that time in our culture, have ever made any protestations of "love." I would rather have died, I think, than admit to her that I "liked" her, even, let alone "loved" her. (Though in fact, "love" her is exactly what I find, in retrospect, I did.) So of course I never did admit any kind of special feeling for her at all. How sorry I sometimes am for that! And yet how happy I am that the absolute purity of my feelings for her were never allowed, by either of us (had she, possibly, reciprocated my liking) to turn into anything else less pure, innocent, and beautiful.
So, yes, Leppi, the distinction between "liking" and "loving" can be a difficult and even a painful one.
06-22-04, 12:37 PM juanruiz Speaking about love, how about the subtlety of the Greek New Testament:
Jesus to Peter: "Agape me?" Peter to Jesus: "Philos te."
06-22-04, 12:46 PM Rakuchild That's certainly Greek to me, juanruiz...
Does it mean- Jesus- Do you love me totally and unconditionally?
Peter- I love you like a brother.
How far off am I?
06-22-04, 12:47 PM juanruiz That's the gist of it.
09-27-04, 12:23 PM juanruiz I believe this thread contains maiku's last post on APool. Fittingly, it is about language. RIP, maiku.
09-27-04, 03:15 PM teeceeum A fitting tribute.
09-27-04, 03:44 PM kittypal Thank you for bringing this to the top. maiku had answered several questions for me in language and also in math. He recommended several books to me also. R.I.P maiku.
09-27-04, 04:02 PM jusork It's been really great having you as a member, Maiku. Very valuable to the site.
09-27-04, 08:09 PM Sarai
quote:Originally posted by juanruiz: I believe this thread contains maiku's last post on APool. Fittingly, it is about language. RIP, maiku.
Has Maiku simply stopped posting or are you saying that he has passed on? I sincerely hope the former. Frown
Edit: I just found the answer. How terribly sad. I learned so much from him. He will be missed. Frown
10-30-04, 12:07 PM Michal
quote: _radioukace_ [Polish]: a telegraph operator for the Resistance behind the Soviet border.
Never heard of. Google doesn't return any results either. I don't think such a word exists but I'll ask my grandmother when I get the chance. I never really thanked him enough! I hope he hears me. sigh :-(
Edit: OMG. What happened to Maiku???? He was always so friendly and exteremely helpful. From what I understand he has passed away. How sad :-( I will pray for him. Rest in peace Maiku.
10-30-04, 01:13 PM methos Michal - Maiku unfortunately passed away of a heart attack in June Frown.
10-30-04, 01:50 PM Michal So sad
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