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Picture of Sarah51
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I am writing an essay... and I need to know whether to use "who" or "whom" in the following passage:

"Having this skill helped me to better understand people who I otherwise would have not given a second chance."

Please tell me if my use of the word "who" is correct here. Thank you!
 
Posts: 402 | Location: VA, USA | Registered: 06-11-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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whom...it's an indirect object not a subject. btw, you may get some flack for that split infinitive.
 
Posts: 7646 | Location: On Vacation | Registered: 06-06-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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As it's an indirect object, it should really be 'to whom', but that's an old-fashioned construction. How about '...people who I otherwise would not have given a second chance to.'? ('Not' usually comes after the first helping verb.)
 
Posts: 7735 | Location: Canada | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Although NNN's suggestion would work in casual speech, it's best not to end a sentence with a preposition in formal writing.
 
Posts: 5891 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 06-13-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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“This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.” Winston Churchill. Smile

Isn't the 'rule' against prepositions at the end of clauses just as artificial as the 'never split infinitives' one?

I'm not sure, but weren't both of these ideas imported from Latin grammar, in the eighteenth century, when they were thought, by classically educated grammarians, to lend some tone to plain old English?

Aha! Edit - "It was John Dryden, the 17th-century poet and dramatist, who first promulgated the doctrine that a preposition may not be used at the end a sentence. Grammarians in the 18th century refined the doctrine, and the rule has since become one of the most venerated maxims of schoolroom grammar. But sentences ending with prepositions can be found in the works of most of the great writers since the Renaissance. In fact, English syntax not only allows but sometimes even requires final placement of the preposition, as in We have much to be thankful for or That depends on what you believe in... The American Heritage® Book of English Usage
 
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The greats in any art break the rules.

Sarah, from what I can gather, wants to make sure her essay follows the rules of so-called proper grammar. Perhaps this is for an assignment of some sort where she will be graded according to those rules. I made my comment with her apparent desire in mind.
 
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Whatever, given her construct, "whom" is the correct form. Also, when the indirect object precedes the direct object, the preposition is dropped, e.g., I gave him the book.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by newnickname:
How about _'...people who I otherwise would not have given a second chance to.'_? ('Not' usually comes after the first helping verb.)


I agree with the comments about proper grammar as well as Churchill's hilarious remark. However, since it appears that Sarah is going for "proper" at least in terms of who/whom, even if she makes the change you suggest, she should still use "whom":

'...people whom I otherwise would not have given a second chance to.'
 
Posts: 2241 | Location: In between | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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... and so, the A+ perfect sentence that no one except lawyers and pretentious college professors would ever say in spoken American English is...

"Having this skill helped me to better understand people to whom I would not have otherwise given a second chance."

I suppose the "to" is optional. Big Grin
 
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Yes.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by newnickname:
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html Winston Churchill. Smile

Isn't the 'rule' against prepositions at the end of clauses just as artificial as the 'never split infinitives' one?

- snip -


The very name of the part of speech, preposition, is an indicator of it's proper position, before it's object.

However, English, being a Germanic language, shares a feature with German, namely, the verb with the separable prefix. In the case of English, the prefixes invariable appear identical to prepositions, but, like German, they come after the rest of whatever verb phrase is involved.

I'm particularly fond of the occasion when I brought the wrong book to read to my son at bedtime. He said: "Daddy, what did you bring this book to read out of in for?"

Alan Moore
 
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