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Diamond
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Some (all?) Americans pronounce the name of the painter van Gogh as " van GO" Why?
 
Posts: 9187 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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Because most of us aren't able to form the correct "gh" sound and the majority have never been to the Netherlands - or anywhere else. Notice my avatar?
 
Posts: 7250 | Location: Baltimore, MD, U.S.A | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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'The Dutch 'g' is difficult for English speakers to reproduce -- try forming a 'g' with the lips as you would in English, then bringing the tip of the tongue to the back of the front teeth before voicing the sound.' www.nga.gov

Be careful you don't strangle yourself. Aren't all of these "place the tongue in a U-shape against the..." pronunciation instructions the most useless things?

Actually, many people from England can't get the Dutch 'gh' sound, either. It's easier for most Scots and Welsh.
 
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In addition to the gutteral "gh" sound the name van Gogh is closer to 'fn cough' than 'van go'.
 
Posts: 7250 | Location: Baltimore, MD, U.S.A | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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We (Britons) pronounce the -gh pretty much as we would the -ch in 'loch' (which we don't, by the way, usually pronounce as 'lock' though some might Smile 'Loch' has a softer sound) but towards 'cough' if that isn't too odd.It was the pronunciation of '-ogh' as 'o' that puzzled most.It is so far away from what the word looks like. How do Americans arrive at the '-gh' being silent? By thinking of 'dough' and treating '-ogh' as the same as '-ough' ? Enough said !

It's odd that this practice has arisen. Do American art teachers pronounce the name as 'go' too?

Now tell me that over there the poet Cowper is pronounced 'Cow-per' and the poet Donne pronounced 'Don' and the picture will be complete. If so we really do speak a different language. (We'll ignore Derby Big Grin )

PS An Irish 'loch' is a 'lough' of course!
 
Posts: 9187 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Pronouncing van Gogh may be tough
For Americans not used to such stuff.
Through practice I can say loch, though
For me to speak Gaelic would require much dough.
My attempt at Welsh would come to naught
And my trying Dutch? Give it no thought.
I am now Donne with my poem super,
But I still don't like the rhymes of Cowper.
 
Posts: 17656 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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Big Grin
Exactly !

But don't try English surnames : There's a cricketer called Gough who is..'goff' but he ain't got a van.
 
Posts: 9187 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Now that we've more or less settled the pronunciation bit, I should point out that the "van" should not be capitalized, and the listing in alphabetical order in a Dutch or Belgian 'phone book would have van Riemsdijk, under R.: Riemsdijk, Willem, R., van. The "ij" is sometimes a "y". Listed under the "van" prefix one could never hope to find anything in an alphabetical list. Half the population would be lumped together. Wink

One additional bit. Using the example of the "ch" in Loch Lomond, etc., now imagine van Gogh with the "ch" on both front and back :
van choch. . By George, I think you've got it!
 
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"van Choch" Smile Now try to say it without spitting.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by newnickname:
"van Choch" Smile Now try to say it without spitting.


If that's how you want it, it'll take several 'goghs' to get it right
 
Posts: 9187 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Heck, I lived in France and I still can't get the "gh" right. I think American art teachers do the best they can at teaching pronunciation, but what do we know. We pronounce Bret Favre's last name "Farve."
 
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Van Gogh was the cleverest man ever. Everything he was told went in one ear and stayed there.
 
Posts: 300 | Location: Southport, U.K. | Registered: 07-05-04Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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According to Ray Puxley in his 2004 book on slang a 'vincent' is recent London slang for a cough. The author, a specialist in slang, is from Dagenham, where much of modern London slang originates, so we may take his word as gospel Wink So even common or garden Londoners attempt the -gh Big Grin
 
Posts: 9187 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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