How is the 'o' pronounced? Is it 'ogle' as in 'goggle' or 'ogle' as in 'yodel'?

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Originally posted by Elexina:
How is the 'o' pronounced? Is it 'ogle' as in 'goggle' or 'ogle' as in 'yodel'?

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The M-W dictionary, linked conveniently above, says that both pronunciations occur. Oddly enough, though, the audio files provided exemplify only the vowel in "yodel," not only in "ogle," but in the derived forms "ogling" and "ogler."

I'm not sure how trustworthy the M-W pronouncer is, though. He has an epenthetic schwa is the last two forms, making them effectively into three-syllable words, whereas for me they only have two.

If it was to be a short 'o' as you have conveniently suggested in 'goggle', it would need to be followed by a double 'g'. Similarly an ogre, the nasty in a children's story, is an 'oh-ger', not an 'ogger'.

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Originally posted by Ewood27:
If it was to be a short 'o' as you have conveniently suggested in 'goggle', it would need to be followed by a double 'g'. Similarly an ogre, the nasty in a children's story, is an 'oh-ger', not an 'ogger'.

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I suppose then, Ewood, that a "Godly man" rhymes with a "toadly man," and that "God's body" is likewise toady.

Your rule works most of the time, of course, and that is probably why M-W has bothered, as I mentioned above, to provide an audio file only for the "ogle" that rhymes (more or less) with "mogul." Still, there are exceptions, and M-W does report the existence of a pronunciation of "ogle" rhyming with "boggle."

Which English certainly often does, doesn't it?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ewood27:

"If it was to be a short 'o' as you have conveniently suggested in 'goggle', it would need to be followed by a double 'g'."

Perhaps ewood's point is that it's regular. Knowing that makes it easier to remember how it's pronounced.

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Originally posted by babthrower:
Perhaps ewood's point is that it's regular. Knowing that makes it easier to remember how it's pronounced.

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My point, babs, was exactly that this word is not regular. Combinations of vowel+stop+sonorant+vowel are often exceptions to the di-consonantal laxing rule operative in the history of English sound change which has led to the approximate spelling rule Ewood mentions.

Your response, babs, ignores the plain fact I've already pointed out, that M-W reports two distinct pronunciations of the vowel in "ogle." This is prima facie evidence of some irregularity, is it not? If the word were entirely regular, then I doubt Elexina would have posted her question in the first place.

I sometimes pronounce it to myself (but not aloud) as 'oggle', but am conscious that it is a non-standard pronunciation.

In supermarkets I sometimes see 'Extra lean' meat and immediately pronounce it to myself to rhyme with 'Australian'.

As the old saying has it, 'All the world's queer except thee and me, and even thee's a little queer'!

I always pronounced bogle to rhyme with ogle ; that was a cinch, because, spelled with two g's, bogle would be boggle, an entirely different (and more commonly-used) word. So bogle acted as a kind of mnemonic (for me) when I was very young, to help me remember how to pronounce ogle.

Then I learned that in the north of England, bogle is pronounced as if it were spelled boggle.

Irregular spellings boggle the mind.

What's 'bogle'?

...but thank you to all, I think. I'm slightly less confused about it than before. I'm gonna go with 'ogle' as in 'ogre,' I think.

A bogle is a goblin.

Remember the rhyme about 'ghosties and ghoulies and long-legged beasties and things that go bump in the night'?

A childhood friend learned it as:

'ghosties and bogles and long-legged beasties...'