A French feminist has objected to the use of Mademoiselle. Her reasoning is that the use of this title is degrading to women in that it distinguishes a single woman from a married one. No such distinction is made for a man. He is simply Monsieur.

In Anglo-Saxon culture we have invented Ms. Does anyone out there use it? How common is it in the US ? It occurs on forms in Britain but few women seem to leap at the chance of so styling themselves.

[Back in France this claim is a little puzzling. In Antibes we would address a woman as Madame quite regardless of whether or not she had a wedding ring. If she is old enough or has enough status then she's Madame. If evidently young and innocent (-ish ) then she's Mademoiselle The default mode is Madame. So far we haven't got a Ms and do not really need one. There has been something of a tendency over the years towards Madame perhaps because of a feeling that using Mademoiselle could indeed prove irritating to some women.]

In Germany, Fraülein is pretty much dead also.

"How common is it in the US?" In my experience it's still used and hasn't gone out of style -- though I wouldn't call it universal. In my professional work I often greet female strangers given only their printed names. I address them using "Ms." (pronounced "miz") and no one seems to object, though I often wonder if they think I am saying "Miss".

In the southern regions of the US, women are often addressed or referred to as "Miss" regardless of marital status. The same seems to be the tradition in show business as well.

I think Madame could serve the purpose as the counterpart of Monsieur. Why not? It means 'my lady', after all.

Mademoiselle on the other hand denotes a young lady: "my damsel" (my young unmarried lady) in English.

Young men used to be called Master. Now to address an adult male as 'Master X' would sound odd. To address a boy as 'Master X' would sound all right, but quaint. But to address a letter to a male child as "Mr. John Smith" is acceptable.

So I agree with the French feminist. The honorific that suggests that an unmarried woman is somehow a juvenile is demeaning. So: madame.

Or do away with all honorifics. What useful prupose do they serve? Their only real import, which was social class, is obsolete.

Go ahead, I dare you. Address a letter to me not to Ms. Babthrower, but simply to babthrower. Trust that I will not be offended.

Titles in general are becoming less important unless you are in school.

I have rarely been called Miss and normally would be referred to as "Ms." if the situation necessitated a title. It doesn't matter much to me except I see it as an awkward social convention. It is especially awkward because the normal circumstance that one would use a title is not the type of situation where you would know the marital status of the person you are addressing.

I have also been called Mrs. I don't really care much except that if someone calls me "Mrs" there is an uncomfortable moment when they realize they've assumed wrong.

It's really pretty ridiculous. I think "Ms." for all would be a good change.

I don't care much and am not particularly offended one way or another, but I prefer Ms., and that is the title I use with other women in general.

For me, the reason is because here in Mexico, it is not common for a married woman to take her husband's last name. Instead, legally and professionally she keeps her father's surname and her mother's surname (so the daughter of John Jones and Mary Smith would be Jane Jones Smith).

Socially, she'll take her husband's last name, but only in addition to her own parternal surname with a "de" (of) to denote her marital status (so when Jane marries Bob Brown, she becomes Jane Jones de Brown in social situations). Socially she would be called Mrs. Brown. The paternal last name NEVER changes for a woman, however.

At work she would be called by the title of her degree with her parternal last name, and since most professional women have a degree, at work we are generally called Lic. Jones (licenciada= degree in law, arts, accounting, etc) or Eng. Jones (engineer of some sort).

As a result, since I live in Mexico and my husband is Mexican, my surname hasn't changed since I got married, and my name hasn't changed legally at all. Since it isn't common in the US to have two last names, my paternal last name remains the only one I use in the U.S. (I tried using "X de Y" for a while, but found it caused a lot of confusion - Americans just didn't know which name to call me).

Since my last name is not my husband's, I think it sounds very strange when people call me "Mrs. X" - "Mrs. X" is my mother's name to my ears. And "Miss X" sounds very wrong to me because I'm a grown woman and quite happily married.

So I prefer Ms. X, personally.

I wish some Chinese person would kindly sign on and explain their traditionss. They confuse me.

Oh, by the way, I made a mistake. I should have said, "Address a letter to me not to Ms. Babthrower, but simply to D. Babthrower."

Using the surname alone to address someone only happens in boarding schools, in real life any more. We're not talking about the Early Pleistocene, when I was a girl.

Well, I think it's interesting and thought others might too. Sheesh!

EDIT: Oh wait, maybe I jumped the gun. Babs, was that comment about wishing a Chinese person would sign in and explain their traditions a serious comment, or were you sarcastically teasing me because you thought my post was off topic? I can't tell. If it was the first one, can't help you there, but apparently I'm way oversensitive. If it was the second one, you get another sheesh!

I really want a Chinese person to explain it to me. Plus their names are backward compared to ours. I had a Chinese person explain the entire name thing to me once, but I passed out from nervous exhaustion long before he finished, so I never did get it straight.

Got it - consider yourself de-sheeshed.