Why do so many people use the word GOT in place of HAVE? Do you "got", I "got" and isn't have got redundant? ***************************************************** 07-19-02, 05:41 PM maiku Sometimes "got" and "have" can be synonymous, or nearly so. This is not always the case. There is the "got passive," for example. "Shirley got herself killed by prowling the streets" is surely different from "Shirley had herself killed...." In the active voice, when "got" means "becomes" it is not the same as "have."
There are indeed times when "have" would work just as well as "got." "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" seems to say the same thing as "I have a lovely bunch of coconuts." But why should the fact that there is more than one word to say approximately the same thing disturb you?
"Have got" is never, strictly speaking, redundant. "Have" is the auxilliary verb here, and it has nothing to do with acquiring or possessing something. This idea is carried by past participle form of the verb (sometimes "gotten"). It's true that "I've got" occurs frequently in English where "I have" alone might do. I don't recall ever hearing anything like "I have got...." There is even here arguably a slight difference in the present tense form of "have" as opposed to the present perfect form with "have got." I suspect that the real reason is that, except for tone-deaf dialogue writers, an expression such as "I've ten dollars I can lend you" is unheard of. It's always "I've got ten dollars to lend you" where I come from.
[This message was edited by maiku on 07-19-02 at 05:53 PM.]
07-19-02, 05:57 PM kittypal It doesn't "disturb" me, I just think that it sounds better to say "do you have" rather than saying "do you got" I suppose it is just my preference. big grin Thank you for the info! big grin big grin 07-19-02, 06:10 PM Sarai "Have got" does seem redundant, but it isn't really, because in the sentence "I've got a car," technically, "have" doesn't mean anything. That is because a person using this expression is speaking in the present perfect.
In the present perfect, "have" does not carry the meaning "to own or hold in possession." Instead, it is simply a grammatical construction (called an "auxiliary verb") to show that the person is speaking in the present perfect ("I have walked," I've seen a lot of people today," "He has been tired lately," etc).
However, you are right that it is incorrect at times. Many speakers use "I've got a car" to mean "I have a car" (present simple) rather than "I've gotten a car before" (both "got" and "gotten" are acceptable verbs for the present perfect).
I can't speak about all forms of English, but in American English, there is a tendency at times to drop the "'ve" when we are speaking in the present perfect. In certain parts of the country, people say, "I been running," rather than "I've been running," for example.
Thus, many English speakers drop the "'ve" in the phrase "I've got" and simply say, "I got a car," "I gotta go" or "You got a problem." It's not standard English, but it is pretty common.
07-20-02, 11:44 AM newnickname Actually, Sarai, I don't think 'have got' is always present perfect. It can be an alternative way of saying 'have to', in the sense of 'must', common in spoken but not written English; 'I have to pay taxes' = 'I have got to pay taxes'.
Similarly, 'have got' can simply be an alternative way to say 'have', in the sense of 'posess'; 'I have a million bucks' = 'I have got a million bucks'.
If you've just won the lottery, you can use 'have got' in the present perfect; 'I've just got(ten) a million bucks.' - but 'I've just won a million bucks' would be better style.
'Got' is simple to use and it's common in spoken English. There is usually a more precise alternative, but using 'got' isn't a mistake.
There's no particular reason for there being two expressions, 'have' and 'have got', which mean the same thing. That's just how the language goes.
07-20-02, 02:14 PM referenth
quote:Originally posted by kittypal: Why do so many people use the word GOT in place of HAVE?
They do it because they are native speakers of American English. The different forms are at different levels of formality for possession.
I have ten dollars (plain form, the only form for formal written English). I have got ten dollars (informal spoken English). I got ten dollars (very informal spoken English).
This has nothing to do with "get" meaning "receive."
I got ten dollars from my friend yesterday (past tense for specific past time). I have gotten many awards in my life (present perfect for nonspecific past time). In Standard British English this would be "I have got many awards in my life," as they don't use the archaic (for them) "gotten" past participle.
quote:Originally posted by kittypal: ...isn't have got redundant?
"Have got" is not redundant, but not because "have" is an auxiliary verb for the present perfect (which it is). "Have got" isn't present perfect at all (in American English) because the past participle is "gotten." "[I] have got" is an idiomatic form for possession. "Have got" is not redundant because it doesn't mean exactly the same thing as "[I] got"—"got" is less formal than "have got."
The same is true of "got" in the necessity (must) sense.
"I have to go" is a little less formal than "I must go." "I have got to go" is even less formal (only for spoken English). "I got to go" is very informal spoken English.
[This message was edited by referenth on 07-20-02 at 02:31 PM.]
07-20-02, 02:36 PM nerdqueendeluxe We were taught that the word "got" should seldom be used as there was always a more precise word. The "rule" usually stands today except for commercials and programming that the Station Manager can't control. It's just so tacky.
07-20-02, 08:02 PM kittypal NerdQueen, that really was my point, I just don't like the way it sounds most of the time. My mom always used to correct me when I was little. "Do not ask Grandma if she's got cookies, it's do you have any cookies"? big grin big grin big grin big grin
07-21-02, 09:57 AM maiku While I agree with much of what referenth says in his previous post, I think he's wrong in his claim that the "have" in "I have got" or "I've got" is not the present perfect auxiliary in American English.
He maintains that "gotten," not "got" is the past participle for "got" in the sense of "receive" in American English. This is simply not the case in my dialect (Inland Northern). "Gotten" is the past participle for "got" in the sense of "become" or "to acquire," but not for "got" meaning to possess.
I know that the "have" in e.g.,"I've got an idea" is the auxiliary "have," because it works just like the auxiliary does in a number of transformationally related forms, for example in negative placement, question formation, and tag question formation, viz:
I haven't got an idea. Have you got an idea? You've got an idea, haven't you?
Note that these are exactly parallel to the cases
I have seen it all. I haven't seen it all. Have you seen it all? You've seen it all, haven't you.
where "have" is clearly the present perfect auxiliary. To say that "have" was not the auxiliary as well in the first set of cases would unnecessarily complicate the grammar of the dialect I (and the majority of other Americans, I believe) speak.
07-21-02, 01:51 PM referenth
quote:Originally posted by maiku: While I agree with much of what referenth says in his previous post, I think he's wrong in his claim that the "have" in "I have got" or "I've got" is not the present perfect auxiliary in American English.
He maintains that "gotten," not "got" is the past participle for "got" in the sense of "receive" in American English. This is simply not the case in my dialect (Inland Northern). "Gotten" is the past participle for "got" in the sense of "become" or "to acquire," but not for "got" meaning to possess.
I think we just have different perspectives, maiku. I certainly agree with you that structurally (and historically) the "have" of "have got" is the same as the present perfect auxiliary "have." However, semantically and functionally "I've got ten dollars" is not a present perfect sentence. Possessive "have got" is an idiomatic expression for possession that describes a present state (not a present perfect nonspecific-time past event) just as "I have ten dollars" does.
Likewise, "I got ten dollars" is a present tense sentence not a past tense one (or a truncated present perfect one) despite "got" being the preterit (and past participle in some dialects) of "get" (receive).
Historically, this "have got" must have come from a dialect that uses "got" as the past participle in a receiving sense ("I have gotten" in Standard American). This led to a resultative sense of possession.
[This message was edited by referenth on 07-21-02 at 02:19 PM.]
07-21-02, 02:38 PM Ewood27 Coming back to the original question, one thing that is definitely wrong is "Did you got?", which makes my skin crawl. You wouldn't say "Did you had?" or "Did you said?" - or would you? "Did you get?" or "Have you got?" is fine, if you really must use 'get' at all.
07-21-02, 02:39 PM maiku Well, I don't want to protract this discussion too much, and certainly not very much further beyond any point of contact with the original question, but referenth is fairly seriously in error here on two counts: first, if the "have" in "I've got..." is "historically and structurally" the same as the present perfect auxiliary, then that is, syntactically speaking, what it is. As far as the semantic interpretation of the present perfect tense in English is concerned, this is notoriously difficult. But the best analyses I know of refer to it as the "current relevance" tense, so that it always has a reference to the present, not just to an event begun in the past. That's why, in English, it's OK to say "George Washington slept here," but not "George Washington has slept here." The difference is that George Washington, being most unfortunately dead, has no current relevance to the state of the bed.
If you will review what I said about "got" and "gotten," you'll see that either you or I have garbled what I meant to say. It's "got" for possession in my (fairly standard) American English dialect, and "gotten" for "become" or "acquire."
I agree with your conclusion that "I've got" meaning "I possess" originates semantically from a resultative interpretation of the verb originally meaning to acquire. This is only a guess, though it seems reasonable. Certainly "get" in senses like "obtain," "attain", "fetch," and so on, are earlier than any of its uses for just plain having.
07-23-02, 09:11 AM Elexina I think that the proper uses of the terms have been quite adequately explained. I just wanted to mention that I find the word "got" to be crude and clipped. I prefer not to use it, personally. And I must disagree with Maiku regarding the phrase "I've ten dollars I can lend you." I use that form quite a bit when I talk and I am not a tone-deaf dialogue writer.
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